Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit - Page 124 - AVS Forum
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post #3691 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

I need a couple corn fed 250 plus men to lug these things up my theaters stairs.

If I weren't so far away I would definitely help you out. If you absolutely can't find anyone let me know and I may be able to drive down that way to help you set them up. I'm off work till sunday. BTW I'm about 275 so your criteria is met there.
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post #3692 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Do I need to spend $300 on a bluray player? I could buy another amp with that money. Just kidding, but having 2 PS3's might be much. Is there any other options that might be cheaper and as good?

I still don't have a Bluray player and I may never get one. I have a server in the closet and a Sage TV that streams all videos beautifully. The only reason I might get a Bluray player would be for the convenience.

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post #3693 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

I need a couple corn fed 250 plus men to lug these things up my theaters stairs.

If you can't find anyone I can help you saturday morning? Like I have said I can't wait to hear them in your room and hear your impressions. You have my number, just let me know if I can help move them.
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post #3694 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 09:54 AM
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Ok here is the deal. I bought the Crest 9200 pro amp to drive these dual dts-10's. I am planning to run it in parallel mode each channel driving a single dts-10. Now here is the problem. The 9200 is a 30 amp 125 amp and I would need to have an electrician run a 30 amp circuit.

Now I am looking at buying the QSC pl 3602 amp. Could someone look and see if this will run in parallel each channel driving one dts-10. If I am thinking right dont the dts-10 need 1000 watts a channel for max headroom?
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post #3695 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Ok here is the deal. I bought the Crest 9200 pro amp to drive these dual dts-10's. I am planning to run it in parallel mode each channel driving a single dts-10. Now here is the problem. The 9200 is a 30 amp 125 amp and I would need to have an electrician run a 30 amp circuit.

Now I am looking at buying the QSC pl 3602 amp. Could someone look and see if this will run in parallel each channel driving one dts-10. If I am thinking right dont the dts-10 need 1000 watts a channel for max headroom?


The 9200 has more than enough power to power those dts-10's. Don't remember the post # but didn't Ivan and them fry some drivers use the same type amp? Does the specs say 30amp / 120v circuit needed? If that is the case, I would think a normal 15 or 20amp circuit would do not unless you are going to be using the FULL potential of that amp. Anyone correct me if i'm wrong.
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post #3696 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Ok here is the deal. I bought the Crest 9200 pro amp to drive these dual dts-10's. I am planning to run it in parallel mode each channel driving a single dts-10. Now here is the problem. The 9200 is a 30 amp 125 amp and I would need to have an electrician run a 30 amp circuit.

Now I am looking at buying the QSC pl 3602 amp. Could someone look and see if this will run in parallel each channel driving one dts-10. If I am thinking right dont the dts-10 need 1000 watts a channel for max headroom?

That qsc amp will be good if you wire the two dts-10's together serial for a nominal load of 8 ohms. That would give you 1300 watts per sub going by the manufacturers quoted wattage. Plenty enough.
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post #3697 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

From what I know it is really sort of like any other cabinet alignment in that it is very design specific. If you need a bandwidth of only 40-150 you'll need a much different driver than if you need to cover 15-100. The same holds true for cabinet size. One drive may make for a very compact 40-150 TH and another may get a good workable design but require a cabinet more than twice as large. Another driver may not be good TH material at all really for whatever reason. It's all over the map. BL, MMS, CMS, RE seem to be most important as usual.

Great info there Ricci. I will explore this more.

Was there any particular parameter that stood out when you measured the driver?

Thanks!

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post #3698 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jreaves1637 View Post

The 9200 has more than enough power to power those dts-10's. Don't remember the post # but didn't Ivan and them fry some drivers use the same type amp? Does the specs say 30amp / 120v circuit needed? If that is the case, I would think a normal 15 or 20amp circuit would do not unless you are going to be using the FULL potential of that amp. Anyone correct me if i'm wrong.

but dont each enclosure have a max of 1000 watts for full headroom? This 9200 has 2200 watts @4 ohms.

The QSC Pl 3602 has 1250 @4 ohms and uses a standard wall outlet. Should I return the 9200 and buy this one?
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post #3699 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Ok here is the deal. I bought the Crest 9200 pro amp to drive these dual dts-10's. I am planning to run it in parallel mode each channel driving a single dts-10. Now here is the problem. The 9200 is a 30 amp 125 amp and I would need to have an electrician run a 30 amp circuit.

Now I am looking at buying the QSC pl 3602 amp. Could someone look and see if this will run in parallel each channel driving one dts-10. If I am thinking right dont the dts-10 need 1000 watts a channel for max headroom?

The tests done on plx3402(supposed to be same amp internals as plx3602) shows that it should be quite adequate whether using in 4ohm stereo or 8ohm mono.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post12938838

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post12939321
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post #3700 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 10:32 AM
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How about a crown xti 4000? It has 1200 watts @4 ohms. Is anyone using this amp? Would it support dual dts-10's and not loose any headroom?
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post #3701 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 11:13 AM
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Technically the crest 7200 would meet the demands of 2 DTS's.
There is no spec sheet online. I'll bet that's a 120V 20 amp draw.

Mktheater is running 2 successfully with a Behringer EP4000.

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post #3702 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post

I see what you mean where its best to use wood to experiment to try and get a good tapped horn design and then once thats done go for the concrete version.

Actually I meant just make it from wood and stop there.

Noah
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post #3703 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

How about a crown xti 4000? It has 1200 watts @4 ohms. Is anyone using this amp? Would it support dual dts-10's and not loose any headroom?

How are you going to use them? Concerts, HT, etc.... LIke I said one behringer ep-4000 can drive these subs way past reference levels for movies with clean sound. The others with more power will only be needed if you plan on driving them to their max which then might be too much for the drivers.

BTW guys, I just bought a Sony BDP-360(something like that) to try out. It was $145 at my local Hifi shop. It bitstreams dts-hd and dolby true hd as well as 1080P 24 for blurays. Should be fine for my purposes(bluray only). I have the PS3 for everything else.

Now should I get 4 crown xti-1000's or a multichannel amp with an external crossover?
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post #3704 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

How are you going to use them? Concerts, HT, etc.... LIke I said one behringer ep-4000 can drive these subs way past reference levels for movies with clean sound. The others with more power will only be needed if you plan on driving them to their max which then might be too much for the drivers.

BTW guys, I just bought a Sony BDP-360(something like that) to try out. It was $145 at my local Hifi shop. It bitstreams dts-hd and dolby true hd as well as 1080P 24 for blurays. Should be fine for my purposes(bluray only). I have the PS3 for everything else.

Now should I get 4 crown xti-1000's or a multichannel amp with an external crossover?

It seems like pro amps are the best value. It makes even more sense considering the cross over.

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"Now should I get 4 crown xti-1000's or a multichannel amp with an external crossover?"

as you know, if you went with the big, theater, jbl's, the hiq crossover data is provided and can be piped into any hiqnet amp. my only concern with the 1000's is whether or not they have sufficient power for the bottom end of your mains.

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post #3706 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 01:01 PM
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The bottom's are 97 db's sensitive and rated at 500 watts into 4 ohms.
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post #3707 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 01:03 PM
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"How about a crown xti 4000? It has 1200 watts @4 ohms. Is anyone using this amp? Would it support dual dts-10's and not loose any headroom?"

i seem to recall the crown xti line doesn't do so well down around and under 20hz. good line for mains, but maybe not the best choice for dts-10 subharmonics. i may be wrong, but i just thought that i would provide a heads-up on this one.

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post #3708 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"How about a crown xti 4000? It has 1200 watts @4 ohms. Is anyone using this amp? Would it support dual dts-10's and not loose any headroom?"

i seem to recall the crown xti line doesn't do so well down around and under 20hz. good line for mains, but maybe not the best choice for dts-10 subharmonics. i may be wrong, but i just thought that i would provide a heads-up on this one.

I think you are correct. I seem to remember that there are better amps for subs duty in that price range.

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post #3709 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 01:47 PM
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are you guys putting that thin foam strip around the driver surface to seal between it and the baffle?
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post #3710 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 01:48 PM
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Only the one that has the magnet going into the cabinet. Ass first.

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post #3711 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 01:58 PM
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I used the foam strip around all the panels and my binding posts. Also the grill(not needed).
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post #3712 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

but dont each enclosure have a max of 1000 watts for full headroom? This 9200 has 2200 watts @4 ohms.

The QSC Pl 3602 has 1250 @4 ohms and uses a standard wall outlet. Should I return the 9200 and buy this one?

It all depends on what "game" you want to play with specs.

The drivers are 500WRMS each-so the cabinet is 1000Watt RMS. So with a normal 3dB "peak" value you have 2000 watts. A lot of manufacturers like to play the 6dB "game" so now you have a rating of 4000watts. That is getting into a pretty serious amp.

I don't believe in that game and suggest an amp in the range of 1000-2000 watts @4 ohm. 1500 is a good "middle of the road" answer. That gives a decent amount of headroom-without getting into stupid situations in which you are likely to tear stuff up.

Of course that rating assumes that the amp doesn't clip and you have not compressed the fool out of the signal.

Can you use a smaller amp-sure-and in many cases it will be more than adequate-considering the high sensitivity of the cabinet.

REMEMBER that when you get into big amps-it takes A LOT of watts to get a small increase in level. The difference between 1000 and 2000 watts is the same level difference as between 1 and 2 or 100 and 200 watts.

So getting obsessed over power differences at the upper end is usually just an argument-and not real practical differences. Say between 1000 and 1500 watts for example.

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post #3713 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

It all depends on what "game" you want to play with specs.

The drivers are 500WRMS each-so the cabinet is 1000Watt RMS. So with a normal 3dB "peak" value you have 2000 watts. A lot of manufacturers like to play the 6dB "game" so now you have a rating of 4000watts. That is getting into a pretty serious amp.

I don't believe in that game and suggest an amp in the range of 1000-2000 watts @4 ohm. 1500 is a good "middle of the road" answer. That gives a decent amount of headroom-without getting into stupid situations in which you are likely to tear stuff up.

Of course that rating assumes that the amp doesn't clip and you have not compressed the fool out of the signal.

Can you use a smaller amp-sure-and in many cases it will be more than adequate-considering the high sensitivity of the cabinet.

REMEMBER that when you get into big amps-it takes A LOT of watts to get a small increase in level. The difference between 1000 and 2000 watts is the same level difference as between 1 and 2 or 100 and 200 watts.

So getting obsessed over power differences at the upper end is usually just an argument-and not real practical differences. Say between 1000 and 1500 watts for example.

Ivan, this may be a difficult question to give a straight answer to but I hope you will try.

My prior sealed subs would bottom out when over driven and give a clear and audible signal that it was being asked for too much.

With the single Danley in my small room I have not heard the sub make "bad noises" at some pretty incredible levels. I get 115+ dB peaks at my seating position 13 feet away from the mouth.

I am using a Behringer EP4000 amp. If the specs are good it is capable of 1400 watts per channel at 4 ohms. I am wired one speaker to each channel with the bridge switch engaged per your suggestion. I am careful not to get the clip lights going on the amp but I am concerned I may be overdoing it.

What is a good test or rule of thumb? Can I measure SPL at the mouth of the horn? I enjoy the output but I don't want to do damage (in case the driver factory burns down LOL).

Any help or insight is appreciated.

Thanks

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post #3714 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

It all depends on what "game" you want to play with specs.

The drivers are 500WRMS each-so the cabinet is 1000Watt RMS. So with a normal 3dB "peak" value you have 2000 watts. A lot of manufacturers like to play the 6dB "game" so now you have a rating of 4000watts. That is getting into a pretty serious amp.

I don't believe in that game and suggest an amp in the range of 1000-2000 watts @4 ohm. 1500 is a good "middle of the road" answer. That gives a decent amount of headroom-without getting into stupid situations in which you are likely to tear stuff up.

Of course that rating assumes that the amp doesn't clip and you have not compressed the fool out of the signal.

Can you use a smaller amp-sure-and in many cases it will be more than adequate-considering the high sensitivity of the cabinet.

REMEMBER that when you get into big amps-it takes A LOT of watts to get a small increase in level. The difference between 1000 and 2000 watts is the same level difference as between 1 and 2 or 100 and 200 watts.

So getting obsessed over power differences at the upper end is usually just an argument-and not real practical differences. Say between 1000 and 1500 watts for example.

So Im fine with the Crest 9200/Danley 6.5K which has 2200 watts @ 4 ohms each channel as long as I ease it up slowly? Ill be running the amp in parallel with each channel doing one dts-10.
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post #3715 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 05:22 PM
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I'm using one channel of a QSC4050HD for one DTS-10. The gain is at 1/2 and holy cow, I can't imagine going past this setting. It would cave the walls in. It easily hits 117dB at my LP (dialogue is about 85-87dB).
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post #3716 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by t6902wf View Post

Ivan, this may be a difficult question to give a straight answer to but I hope you will try.

My prior sealed subs would bottom out when over driven and give a clear and audible signal that it was being asked for too much.

With the single Danley in my small room I have not heard the sub make "bad noises" at some pretty incredible levels. I get 115+ dB peaks at my seating position 13 feet away from the mouth.

I am using a Behringer EP4000 amp. If the specs are good it is capable of 1400 watts per channel at 4 ohms. I am wired one speaker to each channel with the bridge switch engaged per your suggestion. I am careful not to get the clip lights going on the amp but I am concerned I may be overdoing it.

What is a good test or rule of thumb? Can I measure SPL at the mouth of the horn? I enjoy the output but I don't want to do damage (in case the driver factory burns down LOL).

Any help or insight is appreciated.

Thanks

It is VERY hard. There are several factors that determne "power handling". One is Xmax in which you push the cone past excursion points. This varies with freq.

The other is power that actually burns the coils. This is due to several different factors-all of which have different "power" situations. Peaks are easily handled, but a continous constant wave of a much lower power could easily burn up the coil. Things such as sine waves-constant tones ect will burn up a loudspeaker much faster than music-and then it depends on the type of music.

Highly compressed material is much harder on loudspeakers than highly dynamic material.

Basically listen to the sub. If it starts to give you "signals" that it is not happy, then turn it down a bit.

There is no easy answer to the question. And this applies to ALL loudspeakers.

If you set some "safe" settings, you could easily miss out peak performance that could be perfectly safe and not damage anything.

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post #3717 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

I'm using one channel of a QSC4050HD for one DTS-10. The gain is at 1/2 and holy cow, I can't imagine going past this setting. It would cave the walls in. It easily hits 117dB at my LP (dialogue is about 85-87dB).

It doesn't matter what the gain is set at. Even at 1/2-it can easily put out full power. That is a VERY misunderstood concept (even by so called professionals)

The gain knob IS NOT an output power adjust. It is just a gain knob. If you turn it down-then turn up the input level (say with the LFE output control on your receiver) you will still get more output.

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post #3718 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

It is VERY hard. There are several factors that determne "power handling". This varies with freq.

There is no easy answer to the question. And this applies to ALL loudspeakers

No doubt.

If you see clip lights on your amp, turn it down.

If you hear something that sounds stressed or bad, turn it down.

Follow those guidelines and you'll generally be safe with recorded music and normal stuff. It's much more predictable than a movie soundtrack.

That basically leaves a huge dynamic part that you weren't prepared for as a possible "ouch" moment. Those are harder to prepare for but if you pick something that you know is very nasty like the THX: Amazing Life trailor and find a safe volume zone for it you'll be ok with most everything else too as long as you don't exceed that volume level.

That poor CS30 that took the brunt of most of a PL9.0 channel for a second or 2 at Brandon's GTG. Remember that Ivan? Damn thing survived and went on to produce really clean sound the next day. That was pretty impressive.
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post #3719 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

That poor CS30 that took the brunt of most of a PL9.0 channel for a second or 2 at Brandon's GTG. Remember that Ivan? Damn thing survived and went on to produce really clean sound the next day. That was pretty impressive.

I remember that. I was OUTSIDE when it happened. Starting up the smoker at 11 or midnight getting ready to throw in the pork shoulders when all I hear is LOUD bass coming from inside the house. I was a good 30 or 40 feet away and that room has no windows on that side. Through the walls and that much distance it was still pretty loud. And it did sound really good the next day. Amazing sound from such a small sub. Anyone looking to pick up a highly musical sub should have a listen to that little CS30.
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post #3720 of 10055 Old 01-20-2010, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

I remember that. I was OUTSIDE when it happened. Starting up the smoker at 11 or midnight getting ready to throw in the pork shoulders when all I hear is LOUD bass coming from inside the house. I was a good 30 or 40 feet away and that room has no windows on that side. Through the walls and that much distance it was still pretty loud. And it did sound really good the next day. Amazing sound from such a small sub. Anyone looking to pick up a highly musical sub should have a listen to that little CS30.

Yeah. It caught us off guard too. I was only like 4ft away. That's what happens when you have like 8 different gains involved and get in a hurry(it was my fault). I think I remember you telling us to "keep it down because it's late".
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