Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit - Page 19 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #541 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 12:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dbuudo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 103
You mean the kits will be offered for a limited time. Fully assemled versions will be permanent, right?

David Budo
Dbuudo07 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #542 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 01:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
J_Palmer_Cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Danley View Post

Hi all

Audio pink noise is similar although broad band, has a 6dB peak to average ratio so to reach a 100 Watt RMS rating, requires an amplifier that can put out 400Watts as the “peak” level is 400Watts.


I measured about 11 to 12 dB crest factor for pink noise.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Danley View Post


Much of the “modern” style of recording for CD’s has a peak to average ratio of about 10dB, like what would have been highly compressed FM in the 90’s.
“Audiophile” recordings are more like in the 20 to 30dB peak to average ratio and the fireworks recording on the web site is considerably higher.

At 30dB peak to average, instantaneous peaks could be 1KW while the average power is only 1Watt. You can clip off the top 10 or 15dB and not have it sound bad but if you compare to the unclipped, the unclipped sounds more dynamic, it is.



I measured a 25 to 30 dB crest factor of each fireworks explosion. TrueRTA was the program that I used.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Danley View Post


In the record industry, the current race to “eliminate dynamic range” is driven by producers who “want the loudest CD out there” while the technology has gone the other direction.

Thankfully many recording engineers want more dynamics and in the stuff I do, there is no compression at all. As a result, to have it at a normal volume, the volume control has to be set much higher because the average level is lower.




Yes, but a signal recorded with peaks near 0 dB FS (like the fireworks track) will not permit you to raise the volume level "much higher" than usual. That implies that you are trying to playback your system at peak levels that are much higher than Dolby reference level. The vast majority of systems in use in private homes are not that capable.

Just as a note, you may have clipped a few times on a peak momentary digital basis on that fireworks track.
J_Palmer_Cass is offline  
post #543 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 02:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

I measured about 11 to 12 dB crest factor for pink noise..


12db crest would correlate with a 6db peak to average ratio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Yes, but a signal recorded with peaks near 0 dB FS (like the fireworks track) will not permit you to raise the volume level "much higher" than usual. That implies that you are trying to playback your system at peak levels that are much higher than Dolby reference level. The vast majority of systems in use in private homes are not that capable.

Right. You will have to turn the track up louder than with normal much more compressed tracks to hear the softer parts (or lower your noise floor more) and when the peaks close to -1 or 0dbfs come it will be LOUD. That's one aspect of highly dynamic recordings that make them taxing for small scale systems. A lot of people actually prefer the more compressed sound even because the average signal is louder.


That's the problem that many are trying to address.
Ricci is online now  
post #544 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 02:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
J_Palmer_Cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

12db crest would correlate with a 6db peak to average ratio.



The way that I understand it the Crest factor is calculated as mV/mV (ratio of peak to rms level) or is calculated as dB.

So the pink noise peak to average ratio is either 4 mv/mv or it is 12 dB. The ratio of peak to rms level is not 6 dB.

RTA of wide band Pink noise.








Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post


Right. You will have to turn the track up louder than with normal much more compressed tracks to hear the softer parts (or lower your noise floor more) and when the peaks close to -1 or 0dbfs come it will be LOUD. That's one aspect of highly dynamic recordings that make them taxing for small scale systems. A lot of people actually prefer the more compressed sound even because the average signal is louder.


That's the problem that many are trying to address.


I can hear all of the sounds on that test fireworks track at normal master volume levels.

Recordings with high dynamic range are still subject to the setting of the master volume control. My point was that the peak can never be recorded louder than 0 dB FS. A 0 dB FS peak on a recording is also a very, very rare occurance.

I am not going to set my master volume higher than the levels it has been designed to play just because there are some odd ball "test" recordings out there.

All movies are quite predictable as far as system peak level requirements are concerned.
J_Palmer_Cass is offline  
post #545 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 03:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
catapult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:


All movies are quite predictable as far as system peak level requirements are concerned.

Perhaps but music is much less predictable. If you want to reproduce the sound of a live symphony orchestra or a live rock band, 105dB peaks just ain't gonna get it.

Dennis H
catapult is offline  
post #546 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 03:40 PM
Member
 
Mike Hedden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gainesville GA
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

You mean the kits will be offered for a limited time. Fully assemled versions will be permanent, right?

Correct.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
Mike Hedden is offline  
post #547 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 03:48 PM
Senior Member
 
InPhase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Sacramento, CA
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

I agree. There are just a few on here that have mains that can keep up with this sub.

Gotta love my SH95s!
InPhase is offline  
post #548 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 04:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hedden View Post

Correct.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

While I would like to build (including cutting wood) myself, building precut wood can also be fun. How long do you anticipate the kits being available...ie, how hard do I need to beg (the soon to be MRS.) to get this bought? If it's 1mo, I'm in trouble. 1yr and I'm good to go.

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #549 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 05:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dbuudo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hedden View Post

Correct.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

God blesses everyone. Especially the DSL crew

David Budo
Dbuudo07 is offline  
post #550 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 05:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase View Post

Gotta love my SH95s!

I got that covered as well.

Since you mentioned it, how would you compare the SH95's to the triple 8's and what was the cost difference(new to new). Thanks
MKtheater is online now  
post #551 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 05:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dbuudo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I got that covered as well.

Since you mentioned it, how would you compare the SH95's to the triple 8's and what was the cost difference(new to new). Thanks

http://www.proaudiosolutions.com/pro...nley-sh95i.htm has the Danley SH-95I Passive Install version Loudspeaker w/fly points listed at $2497.00 each. Don't know if that helps much.

David Budo
Dbuudo07 is offline  
post #552 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 06:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dbldare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Broomfield, CO USA
Posts: 2,518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hedden View Post

No, the DTS10 is only available as a kit and those kits will in all likelihood be available for a limited time. Danley Sound Labs is unapologetically a for profit company. All our employees, associates, reps, distributors, and suppliers depend on us making a profit and that is only done by selling our finished ideas.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

Crap! What's the time-line for the kits?



dbldare

Let's all go to the lobby
....Let's all go to the lobby
........Let's all go to the lobby
............To get ourselves a treat!
dbldare is offline  
post #553 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
brandonnash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: murfreesboro, tn
Posts: 3,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post

http://www.proaudiosolutions.com/pro...nley-sh95i.htm has the Danley SH-95I Passive Install version Loudspeaker w/fly points listed at $2497.00. Don't know if that helps much.

Is that each or a pair? Sorry, but I'm fairly new at the pro sound gear and their prices. It's too rich for my blood either way, but I'd still like an idea.
brandonnash is offline  
post #554 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 06:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dbldare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Broomfield, CO USA
Posts: 2,518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Each I believe. Most Pro gear is sold "each" because most people want to add to their floor/ceiling monitors, mains, or subs individually.


dbldare

Let's all go to the lobby
....Let's all go to the lobby
........Let's all go to the lobby
............To get ourselves a treat!
dbldare is offline  
post #555 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 06:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dbuudo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

Is that each or a pair? Sorry, but I'm fairly new at the pro sound gear and their prices. It's too rich for my blood either way, but I'd still like an idea.

My bad. That's the price for each speaker.

David Budo
Dbuudo07 is offline  
post #556 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
brandonnash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: murfreesboro, tn
Posts: 3,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I'd love to have some in my room but like I said, well over my price range. Not really looking for upgrade speakers right now, but I may have to after the danley gets assembled.
brandonnash is offline  
post #557 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 07:52 PM
Member
 
95bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbldare View Post

Crap! What's the time-line for the kits?

Ditto on this.
95bat is online now  
post #558 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 08:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dbuudo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 103
What's AVS without a little speculation I'm guessing they'll offer the kits until the end of the year.

David Budo
Dbuudo07 is offline  
post #559 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 08:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 807
there was a guy around here who has tried to correlate the subjective impressions reported in many different venues of high efficiency (pro-audio type) vs. low efficiency subwoofer systems (hi-fi type). he would talk often about the subjectively greater "attack" that one experiences with high efficiency type subwoofers. he has suggested that uncompressed instantaneous peaks were very important to the subjectively different level of "impact" between p.a. and hi-fi subs.

despite his many posts, there were only about five or six people, who had much sympathy his posts. many ignored him. many thought he had an agenda. many tried to make him look bad because he hadn't built any big subwoofers. however, he never gave up on posting what he had concluded was the truth.

not too long ago, he posted a thread about the inherenent deficiency of modern spl meters to capture the instantaneous peaks and dips that are so important for recreating life-like sound. but data presented by other members drove him back from his original claim. eventually, he was forced to conceed spl meters are fulling accurate, just to end the arguing.

this guy would also talk about how much spl is actually required for uncompressed content. when he would present plots made in audacity and then calculate driver efficiency and amplifier needs, the results usually exceeded what most people have (systems capable of uncompressed response into the 120db's). as a result, most folks would tell him he was wrong, ignore him, flame him with comments such as "nobody would ever listen that loud", or roll their eyes. however, there were always a few people around that had sympathy for his posts and five or six who actually agreed. despite this, the weight of the forum was always on his shoulders, never a majority in his favor.

tom danley recently made a post that reads like something that other guy would have written:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=534

i suspect that tom's post (and the reviews that will follow his gift to our community) will give many members who disagreed with that other guy pause, because unlike the other guy who has no credibility, tom's cannot be questioned.

i just can't remember who that other guy was. none the less, it is great to see tom's post because, hopefully, these issues will now be discussed in a more balanced fashion.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #560 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 08:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

I can hear all of the sounds on that test fireworks track at normal master volume levels.

Recordings with high dynamic range are still subject to the setting of the master volume control. My point was that the peak can never be recorded louder than 0 dB FS. A 0 dB FS peak on a recording is also a very, very rare occurance.

I am not going to set my master volume higher than the levels it has been designed to play just because there are some odd ball "test" recordings out there.

All movies are quite predictable as far as system peak level requirements are concerned.

I can hear them at normal volumes as well. What I meant was that being that you can never get higher than 0dbfs in the recording that greater dynamic range necessitates that the average volume and lower level sounds will be much quieter. There is a standard for playback of movie soundtracks, but there is none for music or other media and the standard for movie theaters is mostly to ensure consistency as far as I know. Most volume knobs will go well past where movie reference level is set. If a person chooses to use the rest of that potential and their system can handle it, there is nothing wrong with that. Realistic reproduction of some sounds would require much more than movie reference level settings.
Ricci is online now  
post #561 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 09:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

hopefully, these issues will now be discussed in a more balanced fashion.

Blasphemy. The sun revolves around the earth! *enter the mob with pitch forks and torches*

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #562 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 11:07 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i just can't remember who that other guy was. none the less, it is great to see tom's post because, hopefully, these issues will now be discussed in a more balanced fashion.

Lolz! Good one, LTD.

I'm all for the pro-style gear.

Gah! Now I am all nervous about not being able to pick up this kit in time now. Hope it's available for a lil' while.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #563 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 11:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I can hear them at normal volumes as well. What I meant was that being that you can never get higher than 0dbfs in the recording that greater dynamic range necessitates that the average volume and lower level sounds will be much quieter. There is a standard for playback of movie soundtracks, but there is none for music or other media and the standard for movie theaters is mostly to ensure consistency as far as I know. Most volume knobs will go well past where movie reference level is set. If a person chooses to use the rest of that potential and their system can handle it, there is nothing wrong with that. Realistic reproduction of some sounds would require much more than movie reference level settings.

The one thing wrong with it is the distinct probability of permanent hearing damage. I'll tell ya with 100% certainty there's no way I could watch WOTW above ref level to a point of 130dB+ peaks without immediate and extreme discomfort.

The average peak-to-average difference is 20dB in movie soundtracks. As JPC pointed out, they are quite consistent.

Yes, you can bump the MVL, or, as most people opt for, bump the SW trim, but, this was the point I was trying to make with Tom; there is a big difference between peak-to-average at RL and running the SW channel +15dB hot.

It's an established fact that people perceive the loudest of a group as the best sounding. That's why it's imperative to level the SPL when judging things like dynamic tracking and other SQ issues.

I doubt anything auditioned at the GTG exceeded a peak-to-average greater than 20dB, which is not very difficult to acommodate, except with those pieces that contained sub 20Hz material, which the TH50 is incapable of handling, especially if a 20Hz HP is inserted on top of a 4th order roll off.

My suggestion was that the TH50 was judged the best of show for its monstrous output capability above 20Hz vs the other subs auditioned, not its ability to track transient peaks in the source material.

I use 8-15s, MK uses 8-18s. Sensitivity is irrelevant. We have no issues with transient peaks (or compression, or non linear distortions) at reference level down to below 5Hz.

Out of current fascination with SL and partially because JPC was breakin' my onions about HD, I decided to tweak my subs in-room response to +/- 2.5dB at the mic position and calibrated SL and ran my own direct-from-SW output vs subs mic'd spectrographs of a dozen soundtrack scenes.

You can visually detect differences to within 2 or 3dB from 3-120Hz, as well as spot harmonic distortion, compression and other possible shortcomings of the subwoofer system.

Since the digital graph was taken off the SW output only, I ran the mic'd copy with the sats all off and only the subs on. Here's the Irene scene at '00' MVL. Note the absence of 2HD at 12.3Hz. There is some harmonic distortion at 24.6Hz and at 36.75Hz, each around 3% (down -30dB from the fundamental), but when you consider that this effect is made up of 10 simultaneous tones, that's fairly remarkable, IMO.



Now, can I run the SW trim at +15dB hot and get as clean a reproduction? Who cares? I certainly would have no reason to attempt such an exercise.

Again, brutally loud above 20Hz is a fun experience and a laudable feat by any standards, but it has little to do with the ability to track transient peaks or accuracy in general. The -20dB hole at 60Hz and the +8dB peak at 90Hz at the mic, shown in the GTG graphs, would seem to me to be at least as important to accuracy as effortless SPL capacity.

Bosso
bossobass is offline  
post #564 of 10055 Old 10-29-2009, 11:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
Revolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: California
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry to ruin the flow of knowledge.. but i was wondering about the original th-spud. How well would this preform in a room about 1500 cu feet? Thanks!
Revolt is offline  
post #565 of 10055 Old 10-30-2009, 02:12 AM
Advanced Member
 
2100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What a thread.

John J is currently offering AV15H and 2 x 18" PR with 38mm excursion, plus box with cute little aluminum feet (phase plugs of the TDs), usd 748. You deduce which one is more exciting.

For "matching" speakers, HD1531 sounds good actually. I think there is a PSW road test by some members going on.
Else JBL PRX535 is cool too for the price, active. It should sound pretty good for HT (heard it only for Trance/House/Pop). Not sure about Hifi audiophile music but shouldn't be too bad if it ain't gal w guitar.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MACHD1531
http://www.zzounds.com/item--JBLPRX535

I still want my Selah Audio Grandeur with SS Illuminator and RAAL 70-20XR. Lots of toys waiting, too little money!
2100 is offline  
post #566 of 10055 Old 10-30-2009, 02:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
J_Palmer_Cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I can hear them at normal volumes as well. What I meant was that being that you can never get higher than 0dbfs in the recording that greater dynamic range necessitates that the average volume and lower level sounds will be much quieter. There is a standard for playback of movie soundtracks, but there is none for music or other media and the standard for movie theaters is mostly to ensure consistency as far as I know. Most volume knobs will go well past where movie reference level is set. If a person chooses to use the rest of that potential and their system can handle it, there is nothing wrong with that.



When I play a standard audio CD, I turn down the volume to end up quite a bit under the reference level master volume setting. This is due to the typical dynamic range used in a typical audio CD. The average volume is simply higher than it would be if the recording was not as compressed.

Most likely, I would not have to increase the master volume to above reference level in order to listen to a less compressed audio recording. Instead of turning down the volume like on a typical audio CD, I would leave the volume somewhere near reference level if the CD dynamic range was not as compressed as a typical CD (AKA if average level was recorded lower).

In other words, my peaks will remain in the valid system capability range by not turning up the volume above reference level.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Realistic reproduction of some sounds would require much more than movie reference level settings.


Realistic what? Volume level? What is your volume reference? A seat 2 feet from a live piano being played, or a seat 100 feet from the piano?

Recordings are recordings. I shoot for "accurate" reproduction of what is recorded on the disk in question. Realistic reproduction (whatever that means) does not mean much if it is not recorded that way.

Take the Danley fireworks track. There is no calibrated reference for the volume level, so realistic volume levels have no meaning at all. I just do not want to damage my equipment, so I know the not to exceed volume level for my system.
J_Palmer_Cass is offline  
post #567 of 10055 Old 10-30-2009, 06:06 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I've read it before. It never really hit me but the paper does seem to be down playing the pay-off in efficiency for the TH, but the decreased excursion demands on the driver allow it to accept more power and thus put out more sound before hitting it's limits. This is confusing to me. Usually the extreme efficiency is what is touted. Really it's 2 different ways to skin a cat both allowing the driver to put out more sound with less effort (displacement).

it is confusing to me as well.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #568 of 10055 Old 10-30-2009, 06:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 807
wow, 2100, the jbl's have really come down in price. i think they were around $1600 a year ago. i wonder if they are blowing them out because a new model is on the way.

the mackie's look pretty good, and they must have just been released, but the top octave frequency response is questionable. they do have that nifty new tech from eaw though, which is supposed to help clean up horn throat resonances. it's unclear to me though if such tech is even needed with a properly designed waveguide though.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #569 of 10055 Old 10-30-2009, 06:21 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

there was a guy around here who has tried to correlate ...........

You debated pro audio drivers as being better choices then consumer drivers like the Mal-x and the everyone pointed out that the Mal-x goes deeper and we want 15Hz or even 10Hz performance and are okay with sacrificing a little upper frequency performance to get it.

There still isnt a pro audio driver that does what the Mal-x does in a normal box.

This thread is more about Danley's designs and less about the driver being pro audio. I think its incredible he can get down below 20Hz with these types of numbers.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #570 of 10055 Old 10-30-2009, 06:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 807
"There is no calibrated reference for the volume level, so realistic volume levels have no meaning at all. "

"realistic" would be the spl where he recorded the fireworks show, which may have peaks waaay beyond home theater "reference" levels.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off