Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit - Page 335 - AVS Forum
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post #10021 of 10088 Old 05-16-2014, 10:31 AM
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Yes, there are two versions. The second version had the option for the mouth to exit out of the end, rather than the sides.
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post #10022 of 10088 Old 05-16-2014, 10:53 AM
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I stand corrected. How did I miss that in the 335 pages of posts?

T6

Clearwave 4TSE and 4CC build thread

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post #10023 of 10088 Old 05-16-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by t6902wf View Post

I stand corrected. How did I miss that in the 335 pages of posts?

Shame on you...rolleyes.gif I missed it also..biggrin.gif
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post #10024 of 10088 Old 05-16-2014, 12:13 PM
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The bottom one looks like a TH-Spud [AKA couch potato sub], which is smaller and uses dual 8" drivers. It has a 3rd opening in the end also: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/TH-Spud-spec-sheet11.pdf
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/CouchSubHatchPanelConcept_0001.jpg

GM

edit: Huh! guess I should have looked at the latest DTS10 data first as they've updated it to include the TH-Spud's other exit options: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dts10_specifications2_03.png

edit2: Did any of the kits come with these extra cutouts? I don't recall seeing any, but then I haven't followed the thread religiously since its early days.
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post #10025 of 10088 Old 05-16-2014, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPM View Post

The bottom one looks like a TH-Spud [AKA couch potato sub], which is smaller and uses dual 8" drivers. It has a 3rd opening in the end also: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/TH-Spud-spec-sheet11.pdf
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/CouchSubHatchPanelConcept_0001.jpg

GM

edit: Huh! guess I should have looked at the latest DTS10 data first as they've updated it to include the TH-Spud's other exit options: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dts10_specifications2_03.png

edit2: Did any of the kits come with these extra cutouts? I don't recall seeing any, but then I haven't followed the thread religiously since its early days.
I found the image (with google searching for images of the DTS-10) in this thread... post #4743 of 10024. When I got mine I was under the impression that it had both exit points but mine did not..

Here is another one too, but this one was added after the fact. ... post #5182 of 10025. I wish that they all had both outlets.

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post #10026 of 10088 Old 05-17-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by t6902wf View Post

I don't think they made two versions. One of your photos is a bit of an illusion.
Here is mine installed
The grill to the right of center is the port.
Here is the other side.

I referenced your post a few times in this thread probably hundreds of pages back. Very sweet setup and always liked your clearwave build!! One of my favorite DTS setups also.




If memory is right when we were buying the kits they gave cut instructions for the side port like the non-super-spud smile.gif Also it's a few pages back I think myself or someone posted the pdf diagram/pic.
Been enjoying our setup too much to post or even read AVS lately. Funny how that works biggrin.gif

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post #10027 of 10088 Old 05-21-2014, 09:54 PM
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I don't know why but... these drivers keep dying on me. I replaced one previously and, since then, the replacement and the working stock driver have both gone out and I need to replace both. Who do I contact again? A little frustrated and I literally just ordered a Rythmik for smaller-scale stuff so I don't have to use the DTS-10 more than necessary.
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post #10028 of 10088 Old 05-22-2014, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grap3 View Post

I don't know why but... these drivers keep dying on me. I replaced one previously and, since then, the replacement and the working stock driver have both gone out and I need to replace both. Who do I contact again? A little frustrated and I literally just ordered a Rythmik for smaller-scale stuff so I don't have to use the DTS-10 more than necessary.

That is very odd. frown.gif

I have never heard of a single driver failure until now. I would definitely contact them to find out what exactly is happening. Perhaps there was/is a manufacturing defect.

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post #10029 of 10088 Old 05-22-2014, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by grap3 View Post

I don't know why but... these drivers keep dying on me.
Driver failure is almost always attributable to over-powering, and that doesn't necessarily mean exceeding the thermal rating. You may be exceeding the displacement limit. That will usually happen if you don't high-pass at or slightly above the low frequency corner, below which excursion rises precipitously.

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post #10030 of 10088 Old 05-22-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grap3 View Post

I don't know why but... these drivers keep dying on me. I replaced one previously and, since then, the replacement and the working stock driver have both gone out and I need to replace both. Who do I contact again? A little frustrated and I literally just ordered a Rythmik for smaller-scale stuff so I don't have to use the DTS-10 more than necessary.

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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

That is very odd. frown.gif

I have never heard of a single driver failure until now. I would definitely contact them to find out what exactly is happening. Perhaps there was/is a manufacturing defect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Driver failure is almost always attributable to over-powering, and that doesn't necessarily mean exceeding the thermal rating. You may be exceeding the displacement limit. That will usually happen if you don't high-pass at or slightly above the low frequency corner, below which excursion rises precipitously.


Agreed these drivers are stout. It's been awhile back but to save searching. Double check your hatches sealing very well. They absolutely have to be air tight for the horn sub to work well. Add gasket tape if need be, and cautious how tightening the lids. Double check and be meticulous about sealing the drivers to the holes. Make sure your tightening the mount screws cross pattern and evenly. It could be a leak of air allowing the driver to bottom out pre-maturely. These drivers will handle about 1000w each RMS WITH the EQ filters in place. Without EQ it will be much less before you'll hear knocking banging hitting the soft bottoms.

It's hard to tell if there's an air leak. Maybe double check how you have the drivers wired and the amp power. If feeding a cabinet more than 2kw then you could have an issue. Things may not be apparent to hear at this level of bass output, especially when sitting back in your favorite seat position. The drivers could be bottoming and trying to talk to you but can't hear them with all the mains blasting too.

? biggrin.gif

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post #10031 of 10088 Old 05-22-2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grap3 View Post

I don't know why but... these drivers keep dying on me. I replaced one previously and, since then, the replacement and the working stock driver have both gone out and I need to replace both. Who do I contact again? A little frustrated and I literally just ordered a Rythmik for smaller-scale stuff so I don't have to use the DTS-10 more than necessary.

Is there any obvious physical damage, ala deformed cone, loose spider, bad smells, etc?

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post #10032 of 10088 Old 05-22-2014, 03:52 PM
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I haven't taken these drivers out yet but they make the same rattling sound as the previous one that broke. With that one, the cone (not sure if I'm using the right name) seperated from the rest of driver and just flapped around like one of those wacky inflatable things they put in front of car washes. I suspect it's the same issue and I just want to replace the drivers, again...
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post #10033 of 10088 Old 05-22-2014, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by grap3 View Post

I haven't taken these drivers out yet but they make the same rattling sound as the previous one that broke. With that one, the cone (not sure if I'm using the right name) seperated from the rest of driver and just flapped around like one of those wacky inflatable things they put in front of car washes. I suspect it's the same issue and I just want to replace the drivers, again...

Hmm, if the cone is coming loose from the basket, there may indeed be a manufacturing/quality control issue at play.

When you remove them, if you can, take some pictures and post them. It might help others with potential issues.

I am assuming they are under warranty?

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post #10034 of 10088 Old 05-22-2014, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

...I am assuming they are under warranty?

No. No warranty is available on the kits.
If you purchased an assembled unit from them then it would have warranty.
I'd still ask them though because it seems as though the adhesive has failed. They might make an exception in your case.

Too bad there's not even any TC Sounds LMS-R's available as a substitute. Parts Express is out of stock until mid July.
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post #10035 of 10088 Old 05-23-2014, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by stereo2.0 View Post

No. No warranty is available on the kits.
If you purchased an assembled unit from them then it would have warranty.
I'd still ask them though because it seems as though the adhesive has failed. They might make an exception in your case.

Too bad there's not even any TC Sounds LMS-R's available as a substitute. Parts Express is out of stock until mid July.

Hmmmm, I never knew that. I could have sworn that I remember seeing a 3 year warranty when I had purchased mine.

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post #10036 of 10088 Old 05-24-2014, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Hmmmm, I never knew that. I could have sworn that I remember seeing a 3 year warranty when I had purchased mine.

I too was under the impression that there was a warranty with the DTS-10 kit, but when I contacted Danley a few months ago about a problem where a voice coil had started to rub against its pole piece, this is the reply I got:

I apologize that your driver has quite working. We would be happy to send you a replacement however, it will not be covered under warranty. The DTS-10 kits were sold as is and, because they were not assembled in our facility, were not given a warranty. The driver used in the DTS10 kit is the Eminence 122345 and the cost to replace the driver is $330.88 + shipping. I can work with manufacturing tomorrow to get a shipping quote for you to the address given.

Thanks,
Cooper


Cooper Hedden was right because when I checked the paperwork that came with my kit there was no mention of any warranty, but I don't think Grap3's problem will be that hard to solve.
If Danley won't offer to repair/replace his drivers for free then he should take his damaged driver to a local speaker shop and have them reassemble it using the proper adhesives, since that's the only thing that seems to have failed.
It shouldn't cost too much, at least compared to a new Eminence driver.

As a side note, I took my damaged driver to a local speaker clinic and they managed to correct the deformed voice coil.
I then swapped the two driver positions because I wanted to counteract any cone sag that may have developed over the last four years, but I noticed while playing test tones that the two drivers didn't exhibit equal excursions.
The repaired driver (now in the corner of the cabinet) had almost no movement at a frequency minimum (16 Hz) while the undamaged driver had noticeable deflection.
I feared the repaired driver had less strength after the repair so I reversed their mounting locations and was surprised to see the condition remained. Whichever driver was located in the corner always had the least excursion.

Now I knew why only one of my drivers bottomed out. The driver that has its magnet exposed when the hatch panel is removed is the one that will have greater excursion (probably due to reduced back pressure from being further away from the corner) and will always be prone to bottoming out first. So now I'm toying with the idea of powering each driver separately with slightly different gains to counteract the unequal excursions, but deep down I feel that replacing both drivers with the LMS-R's is a better solution because they have 50% more Xmax capability. I just don't like the idea of needing to buy a more powerful amp to compensate for the 2-3 dB drop in efficiency the TC Sound drivers have.
So for now I've raised my high pass filter from 12Hz to 14Hz in an effort to limit the over-excursion problem, but if that doesn't work then I 'll have to wait until mid-July before I can solve this problem for good.

I hope grap3 has good luck in solving his problem.
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post #10037 of 10088 Old 05-24-2014, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by stereo2.0 View Post

So for now I've raised my high pass filter from 12Hz to 14Hz in an effort to limit the over-excursion problem.
The only way to be sure of adequate driver protection is with an excursion versus voltage plot, which allows you to see at what frequency the high pass must be set and where to set a limiter, if you have one. It's a safe bet that Danley used an excursion chart to come up with their 15Hz at 24dB/octave high pass recommendation. In light of that you never should have used a 12Hz filter. One thing you can be sure of is that if you're blowing drivers you're trying to get more out of the sub than it's capable of giving, so you need to turn it down and/or raise the high pass frequency, or you need to add another sub.

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post #10038 of 10088 Old 05-24-2014, 05:54 AM
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I hope you get your drivers working. For the replacement cost I would just look at replacing the drivers with TC Sound drivers instead. Ricci has already shown what they do over the factory drivers.

BUT with that said I hope it is a much cheaper fix for you.


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post #10039 of 10088 Old 05-24-2014, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereo2.0 View Post

I too was under the impression that there was a warranty with the DTS-10 kit, but when I contacted Danley a few months ago about a problem where a voice coil had started to rub against its pole piece, this is the reply I got:

I apologize that your driver has quite working. We would be happy to send you a replacement however, it will not be covered under warranty. The DTS-10 kits were sold as is and, because they were not assembled in our facility, were not given a warranty. The driver used in the DTS10 kit is the Eminence 122345 and the cost to replace the driver is $330.88 + shipping. I can work with manufacturing tomorrow to get a shipping quote for you to the address given.

Thanks,
Cooper



As a side note, I took my damaged driver to a local speaker clinic and they managed to correct the deformed voice coil.
I then swapped the two driver positions because I wanted to counteract any cone sag that may have developed over the last four years, but I noticed while playing test tones that the two drivers didn't exhibit equal excursions.
The repaired driver (now in the corner of the cabinet) had almost no movement at a frequency minimum (16 Hz) while the undamaged driver had noticeable deflection.
I feared the repaired driver had less strength after the repair so I reversed their mounting locations and was surprised to see the condition remained. Whichever driver was located in the corner always had the least excursion.

There is definitely something wrong, the excursion should be identical for both drivers regardless of position. I posted a couple excursion videos a while back to demonstrate that fact.
I would double check your wiring. It sounds like you have something wired incorrectly where both drivers are not getting the same voltage.

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post #10040 of 10088 Old 05-24-2014, 07:39 AM
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BTW, that picture of the second one was mine. It was a DTS-10 and it had a twin.







Memories!
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post #10041 of 10088 Old 05-24-2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

...It sounds like you have something wired incorrectly where both drivers are not getting the same voltage.

Both drivers were wired in parallel and driven from one channel of a stereo power amp, so I'm not sure if that was the reason for the mismatched excursions.
(I did have the access hatch open at the time, maybe that has something to do with it?)

I'm going to search for your excursion videos now to see if it can provide a clue as to why I'm seeing a difference with my set up.
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post #10042 of 10088 Old 05-24-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stereo2.0 View Post

Both drivers were wired in parallel and driven from one channel of a stereo power amp, so I'm not sure if that was the reason for the mismatched excursions.
(I did have the access hatch open at the time, maybe that has something to do with it?)

I'm going to search for your excursion videos now to see if it can provide a clue as to why I'm seeing a difference with my set up.

That is strange, but yes, it could have been due to the cover being off. I missed that.

I put an acrylic cover on mine to check the excursion...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geJNDgkRpXc

Also, now that I think about it, perhaps there are varying levels of excursion between the drivers due to differing pressures from the cab.

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post #10043 of 10088 Old 05-25-2014, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereo2.0 View Post

I too was under the impression that there was a warranty with the DTS-10 kit, but when I contacted Danley a few months ago about a problem where a voice coil had started to rub against its pole piece, this is the reply I got:

I apologize that your driver has quite working. We would be happy to send you a replacement however, it will not be covered under warranty. The DTS-10 kits were sold as is and, because they were not assembled in our facility, were not given a warranty. The driver used in the DTS10 kit is the Eminence 122345 and the cost to replace the driver is $330.88 + shipping. I can work with manufacturing tomorrow to get a shipping quote for you to the address given.

Thanks,
Cooper


Cooper Hedden was right because when I checked the paperwork that came with my kit there was no mention of any warranty, but I don't think Grap3's problem will be that hard to solve.
If Danley won't offer to repair/replace his drivers for free then he should take his damaged driver to a local speaker shop and have them reassemble it using the proper adhesives, since that's the only thing that seems to have failed.
It shouldn't cost too much, at least compared to a new Eminence driver.

As a side note, I took my damaged driver to a local speaker clinic and they managed to correct the deformed voice coil.
I then swapped the two driver positions because I wanted to counteract any cone sag that may have developed over the last four years, but I noticed while playing test tones that the two drivers didn't exhibit equal excursions.
The repaired driver (now in the corner of the cabinet) had almost no movement at a frequency minimum (16 Hz) while the undamaged driver had noticeable deflection.
I feared the repaired driver had less strength after the repair so I reversed their mounting locations and was surprised to see the condition remained. Whichever driver was located in the corner always had the least excursion.

Now I knew why only one of my drivers bottomed out. The driver that has its magnet exposed when the hatch panel is removed is the one that will have greater excursion (probably due to reduced back pressure from being further away from the corner) and will always be prone to bottoming out first. So now I'm toying with the idea of powering each driver separately with slightly different gains to counteract the unequal excursions, but deep down I feel that replacing both drivers with the LMS-R's is a better solution because they have 50% more Xmax capability. I just don't like the idea of needing to buy a more powerful amp to compensate for the 2-3 dB drop in efficiency the TC Sound drivers have.
So for now I've raised my high pass filter from 12Hz to 14Hz in an effort to limit the over-excursion problem, but if that doesn't work then I 'll have to wait until mid-July before I can solve this problem for good.

I hope grap3 has good luck in solving his problem.
$330.88 per driver?! They were $189.46 the last time I needed a replacement. Ugh... I kind of just want to take an axe to this thing at this point. Could you point me to these other drivers you're considering? What are the benefits/drawbacks of them?
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post #10044 of 10088 Old 05-25-2014, 08:18 AM
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From 10-79hz they have more SPL when using LMS-R drivers.

look here for the comparison.;
http://www.data-bass.com/systems


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post #10045 of 10088 Old 05-25-2014, 08:45 AM
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From 10-79hz they have more SPL when using LMS-R drivers.

look here for the comparison.;
http://www.data-bass.com/systems

I don't see where they say they used LMS drivers instead of the Eminence ones. Am I missing it?
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post #10046 of 10088 Old 05-25-2014, 09:16 AM
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I don't see where they say they used LMS drivers instead of the Eminence ones. Am I missing it?

You have to click on the test labeled DTS-10 LMS-R to see where they substituted the TC Sounds drivers in place of the Eminence ones.
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post #10047 of 10088 Old 05-25-2014, 10:18 AM
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You have to click on the test labeled DTS-10 LMS-R to see where they substituted the TC Sounds drivers in place of the Eminence ones.

Oh Ok, Thanks.
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post #10048 of 10088 Old 05-25-2014, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grap3 View Post

...Could you point me to these other drivers you're considering? What are the benefits/drawbacks of them?

The TC Sounds LMS-R driver.
Benefits include:
- identical diameter and mounting hole pattern.
- Thiele/Small parameters close enough to the Eminence drivers that they will work quite well within the DTS-10 tapped horn cabinet.
- the TC Sounds LMS-R drivers use the "linear motor system" method of reducing distortion near its excursion limits.
- 25.4mm of Xmax (31.75mm at 70% BL) versus 15mm (23mm at overload) for the Eminence drivers.
- 3 to 4 dB greater SPL output capability than what the Eminence units can do.
- 1000 Watt (RMS), 4000 Watt (peak) thermal power rating.

Drawbacks include:
- less efficient by 2 or 3 dB, requiring double the amount of amplifier power just to provide the same volume as the Eminence units.
- less smooth response than the Eminence units provide. (but since a DTS-10 requires equalization to provide a smooth response anyway, this is not really a concern)
- the deeper magnet structure of the LMS-R driver won't allow it to sit flush in the corner mounting hole unless an 18mm thick mounting ring is created. (3/4" plywood?)
- 15 pounds heavier than an Eminence unit.
- More expensive (about $30 more each) but free shipping from Parts Express might cover the difference.
- Currently out of stock. (Parts Express is estimating next delivery is on July 18th, 2014)

Kutlow switched to the TC Sounds drivers and he said in post #9952 that "They sound better at all levels. The bass has a different sound to it. Harder, cleaner and I have yet to push them to their limit! Before the swap I was not happy with the subs. Now they can keep up..."

I'm interested in getting them because they seem more robust, actually have a warranty (5 years), and are usually available from multiple sources. (Just not right now mad.gif )
But I'll have to find a more powerful amplifier (that's quiet) before I decide to purchase them.
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post #10049 of 10088 Old 06-07-2014, 01:33 AM
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Since the cost is about the same I'm probably going to go for the LMS-R drivers. May as well try something different too, right? I've got an EP4000 powering the sub but... I never got any sort of EQ for it so I guess now's the time to ask. But I'd also like to integrate the Rythmik sub I just got as well (with XLR in and out). I keep seeing "MiniDSP" thrown around, but never the specific model, so I'm a little confused as to what to get. I was thinking of the MiniDSP Balanced 2x4, that seems adequate for a single sub (I think) but how should I factor in the Rythmik sub now? Thanks for all the help you guys have already provided.
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post #10050 of 10088 Old 06-08-2014, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by grap3 View Post

$330.88 per driver?! They were $189.46 the last time I needed a replacement. Ugh... I kind of just want to take an axe to this thing at this point. Could you point me to these other drivers you're considering? What are the benefits/drawbacks of them?

That is ridiculous. I am a bit disappointed to hear that the pricing has gone up that dramatically.

I would definitely opt for the LMS-R for similar price.

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