A hypothetical question for the DIY guys - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 99 Old 10-23-2009, 09:02 PM
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did i read the woofer is only 4.5"?

step up to a 12" or 15" based system and things will improve dramatically.

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post #92 of 99 Old 10-23-2009, 09:17 PM
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4.5" mids? Yes. I do have a 4cf empty sealed enclousure (from my previous TC 3k 15" sub). I also have a ED LT550 plate amp not being used. Maybe I should get a AE TD15S and a Behringer crossover unit, run it from 60/80hz to 1000hz or so and then let the speakers run the rest of the frequency. I would have to re-arrange my room some in order to fit this "new" mid-upper bass sub.
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post #93 of 99 Old 10-24-2009, 03:15 AM
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mjg, props on success with your company. so you definitely know that gross margin != net margin.

spanish, for good dynamics, a 4.5" shouldn't be used much below about 400 hz. that will vary with driver efficiency and listening requirements, but is roughly in the ballpark.

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post #94 of 99 Old 10-24-2009, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanish68 View Post

Here are two sub set-ups for around the same price using the same sub(s) that would work with 15A. You could also use the same set-ups with smaller enclousures (5cf) with the AV15H subs.

Option #1 - AV15X sub, $275 w S/H
AE 2 x 18-2100 PR's, $250 w S/H
ED LT 1300 amp, $450
ED EQ2 or Behringer EQ, $100
Birch ply, 2PCS, 4' x 8', $100
Other supplies such as glue, screws, paint, stuffing, etc., $100
Also, a EP2500/4000 amp could be used for $100 less.

Option #2 - Same as above except it would substitute the PR's with two
AV15X subs in a opposite built sealed box for $50 more. So
option #1 would be $1,275 and option #2 would be $1,325.

Both set-ups would go in a 7cf enclousure, with the tuning of the PR's sub at 16hz + 1,300 watts input and the dual sub set-up getting some 650watts per driver. I believe the dual drivers would need to be built dual 8ohms in order to give the amp a 4ohm load. Here are the graph readings I got from AE (within +/- 1db);
Option #1 Option #2
Frequency AV15X sub w/PR's AV15X dual sealed subs
15 110db's 103.5db's
20 114.6db's 108db's
30 117db's 114db's
40 118.4db's 117.5db's
50 119.3db's 119.5db's
60 120db's 120.5db's
70 120.3db's 121db's
80 120.6db's 121.5db's
90 120.8db's 121.75db's
100 121db's 122db's

I have option #1, but I almost went with option #2. Why? Well, my room is 6,000cf and I wanted a flat frequency response from 15-20hz to 100hz, which I got with the very little room gain I got. Which set-up is best? It depends on your low/mid-bass and linearity preferences, room gain, etc. I do think the AV15X dual sealed subs should be close to the Submersive sub, performance wise.

Great looking projects, thank you.
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post #95 of 99 Old 10-24-2009, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

I agree, but with the DTS 10 I would guess that they have less than $300 in the two drivers and less than $100 in the plywood. CNC time and packaging should not be over $100. That is a long way from a $1,000 even when you include a percentage of the design cost and profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

The drivers are modified Lab12's. Parts express sells Lab12's for $156 (US) retail. I doubt that Danley is paying more than that for the modded ones. In the quantities that Danley probably buys Baltic Birch they are probably paying some where between $50 to $75 a sheet. I have bought 3/4" plyform 15 to 20 lifts (about 60 sheets a lift) at a time and you do not pay anywhere near what one sheet costs in the store.

MJG,

Stocking and selling a product is quite different from contract work or general contracting where it's possible to do well on 15-25% markup for materials plus labor. I think you also overlooked the size/material aspect. At 42"(45"?) x 60" x 16" that makes for 3-4 sheets of 60" x 60" Baltic Birch ply, at 50-75/sheet, plus markup from the cabinet shop doing the build. Your estimate is also a little low for CNC time as each sheet has to be loaded and unloaded. Unless there is little to no profit interest and the purpose is more about market awarenes and good will to the DIY community, I'd expect a rather generous price of $800-1000, where $1000-1400 would be very well justified (that's including the pair of Danley's own 12" drivers) given the customer support and Q/A required, not to mention the "special sauce" that Tom Danley brings to the design.

Of course that's just my opinion, and I know others will see it quite differently.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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post #96 of 99 Old 10-24-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

MJG,

Stocking and selling a product is quite different from contract work or general contracting where it's possible to do well on 15-25% markup for materials plus labor. I think you also overlooked the size/material aspect. At 42"(45"?) x 60" x 16" that makes for 3-4 sheets of 60" x 60" Baltic Birch ply, at 50-75/sheet, plus markup from the cabinet shop doing the build. Your estimate is also a little low for CNC time as each sheet has to be loaded and unloaded. Unless there is little to no profit interest and the purpose is more about market awarenes and good will to the DIY community, I'd expect a rather generous price of $800-1000, where $1000-1400 would be very well justified (that's including the pair of Danley's own 12" drivers) given the customer support and Q/A required, not to mention the "special sauce" that Tom Danley brings to the design.

Of course that's just my opinion, and I know others will see it quite differently.

$800 is a reasonable cost and that is the ball park that I would expect. I just did not think that it should cost a $1,000 or more. You listed cabinet shop fees. There should not be any cabinet shop fees. GC's usually only make 3% to 6% profit, but we are working with a bigger pie.
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post #97 of 99 Old 10-24-2009, 05:13 PM
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The price is closer to a thousand than 800. It still seems extremely reasonable to me though especially considering the output we should see and the prices of their completed subs.
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post #98 of 99 Old 10-24-2009, 08:03 PM
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Instead of 10cu ft, what about a subwoofer footprint that makes your room effectively ~1ft shorter? Basically, the subwoofer dimensions are the width x height of the room and about 14" deep.

You should be able to easily achieve about 105dB from 10Hz to 100Hz with only 1W. Throw in a 1000W and you should be able to do an easy 130dB over the entire bandwidth (and probably more).

You wouldn't need to go crazy on drivers, so the bulk of the expense would be in the cabinet.

It could be done with wood, but it would be major heavy. Within a year or two I'm planning to whip up a prototype that uses laminated foam core and comes apart in sections for easy moving.

The horn could be made smaller too, but you'll give up low frequency extension in the process.

-Mike Bentz
~It's all about compromise~
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post #99 of 99 Old 10-24-2009, 09:30 PM
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why not a triangle shaped sub stuck in the corner? wouln't need much of a foot print. wouldn't have any wall cancellations. would only be 1.414 (root 2) feet deep if i got my maths right not counting enclousure wall loss or stuffing gains.

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