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post #181 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

I am not sure exactly what you want to do here, but the crossover for the regular channels sends the lower portion of there signals to the sub channel. The receiver sums the sub channel, and the LFE together.

The LFE channel is not supposed to be lowpassed. Anytime you lower it from 120Hz you are throwing discrete LFE channel info away, that is not present in any other channel. There is no way around this in a normal setup.

You could set the receiver to "No Sub," send the LFE to the mains, get an external crossover, and use it to split the <60Hz frequencies from the mains. Then sum them together and send them to the sub. Adjust the LFE level (not Sub) down -6db in the receiver and you are done. No signal loss.

Well I sure have learned a lot about .1 dedicated signals in the past couple of hours. I guess I need to raise the LFE frequency cut off to 120 hertz, and basically just suck it up as far as being able to localize some of the THT frequencies. I do understand that some of the localization is psychological, you know the sub is sitting to your right, so your mind already localizes bass information to your right. I wish I could have this sub in the front of my room, but I just can't. I will just put up with a little bass localization, I have probably just made a mountain out of a mole hill. It is easy to obsess about a lot of little things once you get closer to perceived perfection as many of you know I am sure.
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post #182 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 12:38 PM
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You are not kidding about the psycological aspect. I went clinically insane once after taking a few measurements in my room of my old sub. It sounded amazing before the measurements but after it plain out sucked IN MY MIND. So i know where your coming from.

As far as having the sub up front now im seeing mixed responses of this. People are saying its going to muddy the mains. Then where the heck is the middle ground placement of one of these? If away from the mains make it localized and near them kills the mains content then where? Just figured a good time to ask that question since you brought up placement.

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post #183 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

Oh yea its the same here. It was 13 degrees in my garage this morning when i started working on mine haha. But im impatient. I stored all my stuff inside so it wasnt cold when applying it. It will just take longer for it to dry in these temperatures.

I hear you, I assembled this subwoofer with Joe in his garage. Durring assembly it is less vital about temperature since the glue will simply dry a little slower, but with the finishing I don't want to take the chance on the paint being affected by temperature in detrimental ways.
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post #184 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

You are not kidding about the psycological aspect. I went clinically insane once after taking a few measurements in my room of my old sub. It sounded amazing before the measurements but after it plain out sucked IN MY MIND. So i know where your coming from.

As far as having the sub up front now im seeing mixed responses of this. People are saying its going to muddy the mains. Then where the heck is the middle ground placement of one of these? If away from the mains make it localized and near them kills the mains content then where? Just figured a good time to ask that question since you brought up placement.

Great question, no problem at all posting in on this thread. I would love to hear Bill's take on this as well as some of the other home audio veterans.
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post #185 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 12:45 PM
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Yeah, everything is great until you measure it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

As far as having the sub up front now im seeing mixed responses of this. People are saying its going to muddy the mains. Then where the heck is the middle ground placement of one of these?

Ignore this where ever you are reading it. Really, forget it.

Muddy the mains? I guess the center should go behind the couch too.
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post #186 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

People are saying its going to muddy the mains.

Not people who have the slightest idea of what they're talking about. The only thing that outnumbers critics is 'experts'.

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post #187 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 01:12 PM
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Alright thankyou. Ive always been told up by the mains was best placement for subs as far as integration into the system and to help eliminate phase issues. But up front might not be the best for response. when i read about this sub drowning out or muddying the mains i didnt know for sure since ive never had a horn sub or one capable of these SPL's.

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post #188 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 01:16 PM
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Once again I have said this many times its not what people say its how it sounds to you
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post #189 of 243 Old 01-01-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

Ive always been told up by the mains was best placement for subs as far as integration into the system and to help eliminate phase issues.

Subs seldom sound better near the mains because ideal placement of mains and subs is seldom coincident, or even close to it.
Methinks thou hast been hanging with the wrong crowd.

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post #190 of 243 Old 01-02-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Subs seldom sound better near the mains because ideal placement of mains and subs is seldom coincident, or even close to it.
Methinks thou hast been hanging with the wrong crowd.

The man speaketh wisely unto thee.
Maketh thou haste to correcteth the error of thine sub placement.
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post #191 of 243 Old 01-02-2010, 10:35 AM
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Me thinkish thou speakish oddish.
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post #192 of 243 Old 01-02-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Subs seldom sound better near the mains because ideal placement of mains and subs is seldom coincident, or even close to it.
Methinks thou hast been hanging with the wrong crowd.

I used to have my old sub near the mains but since moved it across the room to a corner directly behind the seating area (about 17 feet from the fronts). I've had no directional problems with the location and the overall effect blends together very nicely. Viewers actually 'feel' the low end. Great experience.

My plan is to put my new THT in the same location.

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post #193 of 243 Old 01-02-2010, 11:27 AM
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Ive got 4 options for placement in my room. Ill just have to see whats best. If i were to put mine in the rear of the room in the only corner i have available it would be about 17-18 feet from the LP maybe that would help with any localization??? Ill post pics in my thread later on once i get it down stairs to show the options i have.

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post #194 of 243 Old 01-02-2010, 03:08 PM
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The LFE channel is not supposed to be lowpassed. Anytime you lower it from 120Hz you are throwing discrete LFE channel info away, that is not present in any other channel. There is no way around this in a normal setup.

Not necessarily. If the sub has a rising response you may need to lowpass the sub to reduce its output at the top of its range. If you're personal taste is for abnormally high bass levels the same would apply. As for running the receiver crossover at 120Hz, the cure for that is to use mains that run lower than 120 Hz. The center doesn't need to go lower than 125 Hz, what with how center channel material is mixed.

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post #195 of 243 Old 01-03-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The center doesn't need to go lower than 125 Hz, what with how center channel material is mixed.

Not really, there can be plenty below 125Hz in a center channel:



Both Dolby and DTS spec the center channel as a full range signal. Whether or not mixers choose to use all the bandwidth is up to them.

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post #196 of 243 Old 01-03-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Not necessarily. If the sub has a rising response you may need to lowpass the sub to reduce its output at the top of its range.

I would say you need some EQ not a lower crossover point. Most newer mid-level AVRs would fix this easily with it's auto EQ system.

Quote:


As for running the receiver crossover at 120Hz, the cure for that is to use mains that run lower than 120 Hz. The center doesn't need to go lower than 125 Hz, what with how center channel material is mixed.

He was talking about the LFE channel lowpass setting newer AVRs have. This has no effect on the other channels. If you set it lower than the crossovers in the other channels you will throw the info between them away though.
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post #197 of 243 Old 01-14-2010, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I had to turn the gain down on my sub out on my receiver. As this woofer gets broken in more and more it keeps getting louder. I actually had to turn the gain down 3 db and I believe that I need to turn it down even more. This sub is way too efficient!
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post #198 of 243 Old 01-14-2010, 01:14 PM
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Thats good to hear. I havent been able to enjoy mine as much lately with my work schedule. But i will be giving it hell for the next 2 weeks since the wife is out of town and noone to complain .

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post #199 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I just had to tell you guys, after hearing the home theater with my THT, when the wife went upstairs and was watching some of her shows on the 2.1 system in the bedroom she demanded that I "TURN UP THE BASS, it doesn't sound like it does downstairs with your new sub!!"
I couldn't help but come on here and brag, I have a pretty cool wife.
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post #200 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 12:41 PM
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LOL yea. Now you have to build her a little T18 or something like that for the bedroom. I think even the table tuba would be too big for a bedroom thats why i suggested the T18.http://billfitzmaurice.info/T18.html

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post #201 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I hadn't really thought of building the little Tuba 18, not a bad idea, but I have a Klipsch SUB-12 in the bedroom right now that works great.
I do however have an extra Klipsch SUB-12 woofer that is just sitting here, wish I could figure out if it would be well suited for a narrow THT, and I would put THAT in my bedroom! I just can't find specs on the woofer, doubt that Klipsch would have specs that they would just give out either.
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post #202 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 12:55 PM
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Yea i agree ditch the klipsch lol. PassingInterest just used a $50 12" inifnity car audio drive in a narrow THT they came out great. So thats an inexpensive option for a narrow THT you could always use it to put stuff on top of lol.

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post #203 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

Yea i agree ditch the klipsch lol. PassingInterest just used a $50 12" inifnity car audio drive in a narrow THT they came out great. So thats an inexpensive option for a narrow THT you could always use it to put stuff on top of lol.

I wouldn't mind using the infinity woofer option, but I already HAVE the Klipsch woofer! I am going to keep trying to get the specs for it, I believe it would have no problem at all fitting into the THT (not a huge magnet at all on this woofer)
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post #204 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I just called Klipsch and they told me that they don't give out that kind of information about their proprietary woofers. So is it worth just trying it?
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post #205 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 01:46 PM
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you can try it but id rather spend $50 and have a for sure thing.

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post #206 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post

(not a huge magnet at all on this woofer)

That indicates high Qts, probably not worth trying. Where Klipsch is concerned IMO they never made a bad speaker in Arkansas, and never made a good one elsewhere.

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post #207 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That indicates high Qts, probably not worth trying. Where Klipsch is concerned IMO they never made a bad speaker in Arkansas, and never made a good one elsewhere.

I'll post a picture of it once I get home tonight, it isn't a TINY magnet, but it definitely isn't one of those ridiculously big magnets. Seems like it would be similar in size to a 12" version of the Dayton woofer used in the THT.
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post #208 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are the pics of the Klipsch 12" woofer, any thoughts, or is this just a crap shoot?

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post #209 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 03:54 PM
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If the mounting holes are in the same position, then try your driver and if it doesn't sound good, then buy the Infinity driver and slap it in.


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post #210 of 243 Old 01-27-2010, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post

Here are the pics of the Klipsch 12" woofer, any thoughts, or is this just a crap shoot?

Crap shoot.

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