Possibly Build my next subs? - AVS Forum
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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So if I have the time, I may look at building a pair of sealed 15" subs vs. say purchasing dual ULS-15's or waiting for the new SVS subs to come out. I currently have a PB13 Ultra, but it's just too large phyiscally for my room. I'd like to put dual sealed subs upfront. Considerations are:

1. I'm in Canada, so would prefer not to deal with US online companies and brokerage/duty issues if possible
2. Would want the boxes NO larger than say 18 to 20" (WxDxH)
3. Love to be able to get a gloss black or walnut finish (preferrably prefinished box)
4. Has to be relatively "simply" to do!

Room size is 13x17x9, not sealed (two doorway openings to Kitchen and Hallway). Front speakers are Paradigm S2 bookshelves which I'd probably place on the Subs.

May run them with an SVS ASEQ1.

Budget would be in the $2500 to $3000 max range for duals.

Thoughts?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 12-20-2009, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, would also prefer say a "curved" box, similar to the PB13, ULS-15 look versus the usual squared hard/sharp edged box.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 12-20-2009, 07:48 PM
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Canada
semi-DIY (custom)
great subs


= http://www.funkywaves.net/

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Old 12-20-2009, 08:37 PM
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You could go with 18s in a 20 inch cubes for each.

However, you are going to need more the EQ1 to boost the low end. So, plan on buying another EQ like the SMS-1 to help add the boost you will need in such small boxes. Also, you are going to need some power, like pro amp(s). An EP4000 would work well and is cheap.

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Old 12-21-2009, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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With 2 subs, would one have to EQ the low end even in a smaller sealed box? Want to avoid as much THD as possible.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 12-21-2009, 08:48 AM
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All manufactures like JL, Paradigm, or even Seaton Submersive add DSP to boost the low end to get relatively flat down to the knee - response with small sealed subs. If setup properly, you should have no distortion....

There are a few people that are building dual opposed 15" AE boxes, I also suggested and thought it would be cool to see how a dual opposed AE12 would do or a pair, for a medium small room and less amp power - I think they would do very well.
djarchow made such a super nice looking sub in his dual 15"...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1187720
Great work dennis

I just can't get over how nice that looks...
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Have a PM into Dennis to understand the dimensions of that box better. How easy is it to find mesh subwoofer grills of different sizes btw? With a 2.5 year old, I need some protection for the woofers...

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 12-21-2009, 09:00 AM
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You just make your own, buy the cloth and stretch it over the wood you cut for it, you and hot glue it on.... you can sink magnets under the veneer and have a magnetic grill
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:53 AM
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Feel free to contact us, there are quite a few nice options in your price range. My email is nathan at funkywaves.net or you can go through our website.

Nathan Funk
Funk Audio
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:30 AM
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You might check out this site too:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/

There are several Moderators/builders from Canada too.

Good Luck,

Bill C
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:52 AM
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I'm a bit confused about what you're looking to do here. It sounds like you want to build your own sub (you're certainly in the right place for that!) but then you state in your OP:

"preferrably prefinished box"

That makes it sound like want to buy a box... aside from building/finishing the enclosure there isn't really anything else to building your own sub (install driver, turn on).


If you really just want to buy a custom built sub then just give Funky Waves a call. If you are planning to build your own that's cool too, just wanted clarification.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post

I'm a bit confused about what you're looking to do here. It sounds like you want to build your own sub (you're certainly in the right place for that!) but then you state in your OP:

"preferrably prefinished box"

That makes it sound like want to buy a box... aside from building/finishing the enclosure there isn't really anything else to building your own sub (install driver, turn on).


If you really just want to buy a custom built sub then just give Funky Waves a call. If you are planning to build your own that's cool too, just wanted clarification.

I may buy a prefinished box if I can find one I like, or have a carpenter friend of mine build a box to some spec. I don't think I'll have the time to personally put one together, buy the necessary wood working tools, etc.

Now I'm confused, isn't there a lot more to building a sub in terms of specing the right sized box/woofer, amp, EQ and other internals combination than just "install driver and turn on" into any box?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 12-21-2009, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

I may buy a prefinished box if I can find one I like, or have a carpenter friend of mine build a box to some spec. I don't think I'll have the time to personally put one together, buy the necessary wood working tools, etc.

Now I'm confused, isn't there a lot more to building a sub in terms of specing the right sized box/woofer, amp, EQ and other internals combination than just "install driver and turn on" into any box?

Just buy a 7 cuft box and its all really easy to get decent performance.

Install driver, buy a HUGE amp, turn on and then tweak with EQing

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Old 12-21-2009, 12:21 PM
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Quote:


Budget would be in the $2500 to $3000 max range for duals.


You can get sick performance in the world of DIY with that price range.

I would buy the two AV15H + 2 PRs + Box from AESpeakers.com, then buy a pro amp to drive them to insane levels and call it a day.

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Old 12-21-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

you can get sick performance in the world of diy with that price range.

I would buy the two av15h + 2 prs + box from aespeakers.com, then buy a pro amp to drive them to insane levels and call it a day.

+1

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Old 12-21-2009, 02:08 PM
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The problem is that he is looking for a smaller solution here.

He was talking in another thread about a pair of the Paradigm Sub 12 or 15's.
I was just suggesting DIY here to save some money.

Dual opposed 15's will need something along the lines of the same size as the Ultra 13 he already has... A 15" w/dual 18" PR's will require a box at least 24" cube.

I speculated that Twin - Dual opposed 12's would easily outperform a pair of Sub 12 or 15, for far less then those....

Just a thought about box sizes here...
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, ideally no larger than 18 to 20" cubed, max. Can probably stretch this to 22" height (you can see in my linked pictures to my family room that the PB13 Ultra just gets above the Salamander stand, but I can likely increase the footings below the stand to adjust another 1/2" or so).

But 20" depth and preferrably 18 to 20" max on width.

How large is this puppy?

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...aled-100l.html

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 12-21-2009, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Yes, ideally no larger than 18 to 20" cubed, max. Can probably stretch this to 22" height (you can see in my linked pictures to my family room that the PB13 Ultra just gets above the Salamander stand, but I can likely increase the footings below the stand to adjust another 1/2" or so).

But 20" depth and preferrably 18 to 20" max on width.

How large is this puppy?

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...aled-100l.html

Not sure how large, but bigger than your specs since it is an 18" driver. I have a 15" LMS5400 in a small sealed box, 19" high, 19" wide, and 21 1/2" deep. If you're driving down to Chicago, I'll make you a deal

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Old 12-21-2009, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post

Not sure how large, but bigger than your specs since it is an 18" driver. I have a 15" LMS5400 in a small sealed box, 19" high, 19" wide, and 21 1/2" deep. If you're driving down to Chicago, I'll make you a deal

Interesting ... perfect size for me. Build Thread?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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Old 12-21-2009, 06:47 PM
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You can't get those any more, unless you buy them used.... Also the TCSounds drivers need alot of Juice sealed to get the most of their potential, they are not totally effecient, and offer some if not the best excursion as well as being pretty much the most linear peak to peak out there...

TCSounds is ramping things up and you will be able to get them sometime in the future... middle of next year...? Kyle ?
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:43 PM
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Interesting ... perfect size for me. Build Thread?

I don't think I did a build thread for that one--I do them all the same though. That is, 3/4" baltic birch, heavily braced, laminated with 1/2" MDF, in this case veneered with figured walnut, Cardas binding posts, lined with fiberglass.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, let's narrow this down a bit. I don't think I can do an external amp due to space issues on my family room rack. So I'm stuck with likely going with a 1000 watt Dayton amp (I think I may have a 750 watt Bash amp lying around somewhere as well, not sure how big a diff it would make)...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-808

Assuming say a similar size enclosure as Fatawan uses above (might make it curved similar to the Paradigm Sub 15/25 enclosures unless someone thinks a 15" driver + PR can fit in this box and work better?):

1. What driver would work "best" in that enclosure and amp size
2. Will this sort of a setup compete in terms of clean output across say a 15 to 80hz range with my PB13 in 15hz mode?
3. Will there be enough output in the upper hz to blend well with my S2 bookshelves?
4. Would an AS-EQ1 be fine to use as a final EQ solution (seeing that the Bash amps each have a single PEQ)?

Or is the box size simply too small to best the PB13 even with duals?

Can also look at the eD 1300 watt amps if they would be that large of an upgrade over the 1000 Dayton above to justify the cost difference.

Go easy on me, entirely new to even thinking of building subs so some of the questions above may seem obviously "stupid", but not to me!

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 12-22-2009, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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So I checked, and I "might" be able to fit one external amp if it could power both subs and do better than say the 1300 watt eD plate amp (do they make higher powered plate amps btw, can't seem to find any?). So not sure if a Crown 4000 would fit the bill, or an EP2500/4000 (though I understand there could be considerably fan noise with these)?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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Old 12-22-2009, 08:47 AM
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So I checked, and I "might" be able to fit one external amp if it could power both subs and do better than say the 1300 watt eD plate amp (do they make higher powered plate amps btw, can't seem to find any?). So not sure if a Crown 4000 would fit the bill, or an EP2500/4000 (though I understand there could be considerably fan noise with these)?

I have two Crown CE4000 on my rack in front of the room. They have a 3 speed fan, and the noise generally do not bother me. My Xbox with the external fan is a LOT louder.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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So still taking my time on this (if I do go this route won't be until likely mid to end of Feb), but want to ask as many questions as I can before I start.

The box may be smaller than I wanted (after measuring the space), and I'm looking at likely a box no wider than 18", say 22 to 23" deep, and 22" high max.

Question, if I were to go with say an LMS5400 15" woofer (i.e., find two used ones), but only have space for a possible single pro amp to drive both, would this severely limit the woofers potential? I have read that they "love" lots of power, especially in small sealed boxes. So wondering if 1 external amp would work better than say 2 plate amps like the eD 1300 for this application?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 01-11-2010, 06:12 AM
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Just bumping re: any single pro amps that would be able to do justice to dual LMS5400 15" drivers in sealed enclosures of about 2.5 to 3.0 cuft? I.e., 1 amp, two small sealed subs?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 01-13-2010, 08:20 AM
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A CE4000 would do nicely.

You have to get them used, but arguably one of the best sub amps available. They generally go for around $500-$600. I picked up to for my LMS, but am only using CE. They are pretty bulletproof as well. I have not heard of many if any problems with them. The CE also has switchable voltage input so it eliminates the need for a Cleanbox or other signal booster.
I have even run mine with a fan mod and at 1ohm stereo for years without any issues whatsoever.

Another option would be the Marathon MA-5050. It is affordable and powerful.

Of course the other route and similar price would be two new EP4000s. Not a single amp solution but would be cheap.

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Old 01-13-2010, 09:05 AM
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Single amp solution for 2 LMS's...

Crest CA18, Crest 9200, Maybe CC5500??? (not sure)

Crown IT8000, IT6000 etc.,MA5002Vz,

QSC RMX5050, PL380, PL6.0, PL9.0


On a related note. You can cram an 18" LMS into an enclosure of about 21" cubed. Unless you get a really big single amp or doubles you'll likely be power limited with many drivers in a box that small. With your enclosure dimensions you want to keep I think it may be a better idea to go with double 12" drives in each one firing in opposite directions (dual opposed).

2 AE AV12H's in each box would be very nice. You could even use the ED1300w plate amp on them with good results, or you could power all 4 drives with an EP4000. Get a Behringer DCX2496 for EQing and level matching.
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Another option I'm investigating is building a sub with the same dimensions/layout as the new Epik Empire (dual 15's), 22h x 18w x 24d.

I'd have the have the drivers facing towards the salamander triple 20 rack I'm using and the opposite driver would be facing the wall (say 2" from the wall) on the right side and out into the open hallway on the left.

Think I'll have issues with that sort of setup?

Leaning towards dual 15AV-H's (or AV-X's?), dual SDX-15's, or a much longer shot, dual LMS-Rs if I can get them, driven by one QSC 5050 or 1 Marathon 5050.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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