Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Just one driver per enclosure, but it is probably best to use these in pairs. The Tang Band W6-1139 also works according to the model, but not quite as well as the Anarchy. Total volume is closer to 3 cubic feet than I wanted, but there is 1/2 a cubic foot of wood inside the cabinet as dividers for 13.5 feet of tapped horn all folded up in there. With 1/2" material it is 20.125" X 30" X 8.25" external, and there is zero wasted space inside.

I will post the modeled predictions and comparisons to the actual measurements when I am done. If worthy, rest assured I'll post drawings, plans, details, and a cutlist so that anyone else can play along at home. If my measurements are not what I expected, I will post what I did and what I found so that we can all work together and try to figure out what went wrong so that others do not make the same mistakes.

I have not posted much about this yet because I do not consider my designs done until they are built, measured, and proven. I don't want to waste other people's time with something that may not work.
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Old 07-31-2010, 12:08 PM
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Just to update things a little.

The phase response in Hornresp was tweaked awhile ago, and is now correct for THs. You can still get the odd false delay error, but it is a lot less frequently.
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Old 07-31-2010, 12:17 PM
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It also seems it was let out that the front chamber between the cone and horn at the throat created by the gap in the baffle needs to be add to the HR model.

To do this here you need to add a Vtc of 636, and Atc of 532. This will shift the FR down a few Hz to match the measured response.

It was worked out in PM, but never updated here for you guys.
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

You can still get the odd false delay error, but it is a lot less frequently.

I thought something seemed different lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

It also seems it was let out that the front chamber between the cone and horn at the throat created by the gap in the baffle needs to be add to the HR model.

I had a feeling this was the case, but assumed it didn't make too much difference in the final result unless I doubled up on the wood or something. I knew it would have an effect on the TB horn due to the 18mm thick wood, but decided to just not worry about it at the time. I don't think it really has had much effect on the final result, though the woofers act like the corner is around 15.5 Hz now.

Good to have some actual numbers I can use in future designs... I plan to keep using the 18mm shop birch as long as it stays as cheap as it has been.
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:17 PM
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This must be a dumb question because I've read a lot on tapped horns/hornresp and don't see how to translate a model to actual dimensions for building. What am I missing?
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Old 08-26-2010, 06:09 PM
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here is a mockup of a tapped horn that i did for ricci using a 21" drive.

maybe it will help. should get you pretty close.


LL

Listen. It's All Good.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:26 AM
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Extremely helpful tutorial!
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:15 PM
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im studying this and getting it slowly thanks to the wizard phew

only thing i cant seem to get is the width of the horn ?

does it matter ?

i see most of them are just wider than the drivers frame, what effects does this have and is it better to use multiple identical horns in one instance or more than one driver per horn ?

i think i read that if you put 2 drivers in the length of the horn it smooths out the response is that correct?
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Old 09-19-2010, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Width is up to you.

Pretty much the only criteria on setting a width is that the driver needs to fit. I like at least an inch extra, but I have cut things a little closer.



There is about 1/8" of wood left outside the rabbet on this one. As it was, the driver was a snug fit depth-wise, so I needed to design the horn a little bigger.

As far as smoothing things out with multiple drivers - Yes - to a degree would be my qualified answer. I am a big fan of multiple smaller drivers for music applications. For home theater, I have yet to find a small driver that will do the sub-20 Hz stuff at reference level without running into excursion issues, even with 4 in a cabinet. Most run out of gas at around 30 Hz. For these applications, a single larger driver is usually a better choice. The little ones just can't do the lower stuff at high enough SPLs to make it worth my while. Additionally, when you're using 4 of them, the cost adds up pretty quick, and may wind up more expensive than a larger driver that is better suited to the job.

By the way - HornResp now models parabolic flares, which is what 99.99% of us wind up building regardless of what we actually modeled. Select it the same way as conical, just choose "Par".
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:52 PM
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Guys, I'm trying to teach myself to build a couple of 16hz slim tapped horns, probably about 9" or 10" wide and 48ish" tall by X" long.

Figured I'd start by learning how to re-do the little SPUD. But I must be doing something wrong because the response looks pretty bad?

Here's the t/s parameters for the W8-740P:

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-854s.pdf
LL
LL

 

spudth74.txt 0.37890625k . file

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:36 PM
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Also, does anyone know how to run multiple instances of hornresp at once? I can only have one open at a time. Makes comparison between designs difficult.

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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It will get complicated to keep track of what design is where, but it is easy to do. Just copy all the files into another directory, like C:\\Hornresp2. I do this all the time. I've had 4 instances running at the same time, plus akabak...

Yeah, I'm not well....
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:36 AM
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Sheesh, can't believe I didn't think of that. Thanks.

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:39 PM
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Guys i'm new to tapped horns.

I was a little curious about the theory in the danley white paper where it says how at 1/4th wave-length, or corner freq, the wave has 1/2 a wavelength to travel. What i don't get is, where does the rest of the 1/2 go? Am i correct to assume that i have to count both sides of the drivers displacement, since the rear will be radiating 1/4 the WL into the throut and back while the front of the driver will act like a vaccum aswell, does this make sense? I am believing that 1/2 of the rear radiation does not emit out of the mouth at 1/4WL.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

I've had 4 instances running at the same time, plus akabak...

Yeah, I'm not well....

Whoa, maybe there needs to be a 12-step program.

I have done 2 HRs at the same time along with AkAbak, but I normally have at least 3 horns going in AkAbak at all times, so it may be a little worse.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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12 steps to the fridge, get a beer. 12 steps to the desk, model more horns...repeat. Is that what you were thinking of?

I had to put all four cores to use....

As far as the number of open sims in AkAbak??? That gets ugly fast. At least in a virtualized environment things crash gracefully......
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:24 PM
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What kind of PC gear are you running ?

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What kind of PC gear are you running ?

Current rig?
Core i5, 2500K, clocked at 4.6, water cooled.
16 GB of RAM
256 SSD for boot, 3 TB pool for storage

I currently run Win 7 X64 as an OS, and XP as a VM through XP mode. About 8 concurrent akabak sessions will typically kill it. I've considered stepping up to a proper virtualization environment, but just lack the motivation at the moment - this rig just works, I'll wait till it breaks.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Width is up to you.


Pretty much the only criteria on setting a width is that the driver needs to fit. I like at least an inch extra, but I have cut things a little closer.





There is about 1/8" of wood left outside the rabbet on this one. As it was, the driver was a snug fit depth-wise, so I needed to design the horn a little bigger.


As far as smoothing things out with multiple drivers - Yes - to a degree would be my qualified answer. I am a big fan of multiple smaller drivers for music applications. For home theater, I have yet to find a small driver that will do the sub-20 Hz stuff at reference level without running into excursion issues, even with 4 in a cabinet. Most run out of gas at around 30 Hz. For these applications, a single larger driver is usually a better choice. The little ones just can't do the lower stuff at high enough SPLs to make it worth my while. Additionally, when you're using 4 of them, the cost adds up pretty quick, and may wind up more expensive than a larger driver that is better suited to the job.


By the way - HornResp now models parabolic flares, which is what 99.99% of us wind up building regardless of what we actually modeled. Select it the same way as conical, just choose "Par".

so width wont affect it that much ?i was wondering how u figured out the width for a given hornpath myself
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davece View Post

so width wont affect it that much ?i was wondering how u figured out the width for a given hornpath myself

Area is the number that matters.

Baffle width fixes one of the two components in calculating area, and as it is generally consistent in a typical fold, that allows me to calculate the separation of the baffles when I lay out the fold.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Area is the number that matters.

Baffle width fixes one of the two components in calculating area, and as it is generally consistent in a typical fold, that allows me to calculate the separation of the baffles when I lay out the fold.

ok i think i have alot more reading to do before i really play around with hornsrep lol winisd i get but hornsrep is stil confusing the hell out of me
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:53 AM
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I'm bumping this so I can find it easy; and also say thanks for a great thread!

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Old 06-23-2014, 09:00 PM
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First post needs to be updated:

http://www.hornresp.net/
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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First post needs to be updated:

http://www.hornresp.net/
Done.

Thanks for the reminder.
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Old 05-25-2015, 04:53 PM
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wow thanks, hornresp was in chinese before this. im modeling a tc epic 8. i have 8 18s, this is just for fun.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:50 PM
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lilmike,

Thanks for this thread. I have been trying to model my own tapped horn enclosure for the past three weeks using the guidance from here but I am still at a loss with some pieces. I tried pm'ing you but I don't have enough posts for that
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:57 PM
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Such as? Please post here as others may benefit.

GM

Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:13 AM
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Such as? Please post here as others may benefit.

GM
*First edit: After posting this and continued research it appears my design may in fact be a tapped transmission line...I welcome corrections*

*Second edit: I verified the enclosure I was trying to model is a tapped transmission line. Sorry for confusing it with a horn.

Last edited by teknophile; 10-03-2015 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:55 PM
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OK, so you're saying you answered your own Qs?

GM

Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
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Old 10-03-2015, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
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OK, so you're saying you answered your own Qs?

GM
Not necessarily. I only verified that the enclosure I was trying to model is highly likely a type of tapped transmission line. Although it looked similar to a horn all designs I could find for a horn were for single or at most two drivers in an enclosure. The paths of most horn designs were also much longer than what I was trying to mimic.

Also, this is for an enclosure in a vehicle environment and this thread was mostly geared toward HT. Despite that I noticed that alot of horns were designed anechoic?

For reference I was trying to model this enclosure (my previous enclosure)


to accomodate six 12 inch subwoofers. The previous enclosure was designed for six 8 inch subwoofers and the designer is now on hiatus for personal reasons.

The enclosure I had used a parallel plane for woofer mounting as opposed to an angled plane most horns use to start the throat I believe. Also, most path lengths I have seen for horns are much longer compared to my previous enclosure.

If anyone feels they may have some insight on how I can model this type of enclosure for six 12 inch subwoofers as opposed to six 8 inch subwoofers that would be truly appreciated.

I can model most any enclosure in sketchup and I can build them as well with no problems. I just can't figure out hornresp enough at this point to know if a tapped horn is what my previous enclosure was (I doubt it) or how to model a transmission line.

Last edited by teknophile; 10-03-2015 at 01:06 PM.
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