Ted's Twin Avalanche 18s - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 01-26-2010, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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After MONTHS of kicking around ideas, I finally have started a build.

I'm looking to build new subs because I want to get better low bass output then my present sub offers. So after shopping around and doing countless drawings and plots, I made a deal to purchase 2 Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18 drivers. Price along with performance played the major roll in picking this driver. It's funny, I started out looking at multiple 12s, then moved on to multiple 15s and somehow I ended up with dual 18s. The wife knows I'm getting new subs, she just doesn't know I went with 18s, I think she's going to be shocked at the size of these monsters.

I plan on building a 309L sealed cabinet for each driver (not deducting the volume of the driver and bracing), 22 wide x 21 deep and 47.5 high. I like the narrow tall style cabinet because it fits my space well and matches the style of my existing speakers (they are very narrow and vertical). I all my speakers are crossed over at 45 Hz and they sound very good, so all I need to do is fill in the bottom. I really don't need max SPL, just flat output down 15 Hz (lower if possible) with good SQ. But it is always nice to be able to crank it up to reference levels on the better movies or crank a good tune.

Here is the WinISD graph. This is one passive radiator sub vs. one sealed sub. So building two sealed subs should bring me right uo to a single PR sub's output.



The room size (once the HT is built) will be 4500 cu ft and pretty well sealed off from the rest of the house. Each sub will be driven off one channel of my Yamaha P7000S and receive 950 watts, I could pick up another amp if needed down the line. WinISD calculated the output for a single sub at 112db @ 20Hz and 107db @ 15 Hz. I will assume another 3db will be added with the second sub so the out would be a respectable 110db @ 15 Hz.

I am using ¾ marine grade plywood throughout with the front baffle at 1-1/2 thick. My brother-in-law Bob is a retired carpenter and we are doing the build in his shop. Sure is nice having all the right tools to do the job. I braced the cabinet with window bracing because this is the best support for the lowest volume. The braces were cut out of solid blanks for maximum strength. All the bracing is mounted with dado joints and will be screwed and glued. The Qtc is calculated at .69 so I don't think I will need any stuffing, but we'll once the subs are done. I do have a few sheets of Black Hole 5 I have laying around so I will add them behind the driver and on the sidewalls next to the driver.

We finished all the panels on Saturday and plan on gluing them up this weekend. Bob went ahead and dry fit the cabinets as shown in the attached pictures. Still undecided on the finish I will be using, torn between a nice paint job or oak veneer. More to come as the project moves along.......







A good point Bob made. When screwing the wood together, predrill the holes in the first peice with a hole large enough for the screw to pass through and only thread into the second peice. This will allow the pieces to suck up together better and form a tighter joint.

Dry fitting is complete and all went well. The cabinets are being glued up now. One is completely done, the other only needs the front glued on. All the joints were glued with Elmer's Probond wood glue and we used Gorilla Glue on all the inside seams to make sure they were sealed. The foaming action of the Gorilla Glue I think will work really well for this. Here are pictures of the glue when applied and the second when it is cured.




Now the fronts are glued on and the sanding begins

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post #2 of 38 Old 01-26-2010, 06:31 PM
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Wow, those cabs look nice! Great job so far!

War Eagle!
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post #3 of 38 Old 01-26-2010, 07:26 PM
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Yes Bob has some talent,if only I could build something like this.You will be proud of these.
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post #4 of 38 Old 01-26-2010, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Standing next to these, I realize they are just BIG boxes so I think I need to dress them up with a nice finish. I am leaning toward a figured veneer with a special finish on the faces.

I can't help but second guess the design, I was leaning toward a single cabinet with dual drivers but we'll just have to see how these sound. I will load the drivers for a test run before I start the finishing.
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post #5 of 38 Old 01-26-2010, 09:05 PM
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Nice build!

Those enclosures are really well done.

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post #6 of 38 Old 02-13-2010, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, things are moving slowly. The cabinet build is complete, the finishing is next. The veneer has just been ordered for the cabinets so it will be a little while before they are finished. I mounted the drivers to do a little test run. All I can say is they sound great. I took my feedback destroyer out of the loop and ran a few sine waves. They seem very smooth, something you'd expect from a sealed design. With two subs, output is no problem. I listened to some music and am very impressed. All this is without sealing the driver, so improve once they are done and sealed in place. Here's a picture from the testing. To give you a sense of size, the TV is a 72" and my main speakers stand 66" tall (the one behing the subs)

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post #7 of 38 Old 02-13-2010, 04:18 PM
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avalanches are awesome. had a pair of 15's myself... so "quiet" which is good if you know what I mean
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post #8 of 38 Old 02-13-2010, 04:42 PM
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Twin 18's look great, but I really like the shag carpet ! Now I have to ask, is that new shag or just retro.

Those subs have got to hit pretty hard !!

KG

I'm curious what the F3 will be UnEq'd. Even in those big ol' boxes....
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post #9 of 38 Old 02-13-2010, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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It's actually new (well about 4 years now), It's not like the old stuff, it's more like multi length twisted fibers. My wife fell in love with it and it was the most expensive carpet in the store. Only made by one company in California.

With the way I spend money on my HT, how could I say no to her.

F3 is about 29hz on one speaker modeled, with both subs I should see about 115db@15hz pushing them with 950 watts.
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post #10 of 38 Old 02-13-2010, 05:51 PM
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Well done with the cabinents...they look great! Im sure you will be happy with the results!
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post #11 of 38 Old 02-13-2010, 05:59 PM
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Love the shag carpet Groovy baby
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post #12 of 38 Old 02-13-2010, 07:11 PM
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but aren't they only rated 800 watts LOL
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post #13 of 38 Old 02-13-2010, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup, 800 watts. We'll just run them till they drop.

During normal listening I don't drive them that hard, they are now crossed over at 50hz, so my mains are taking a lot of the work off of them.
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post #14 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedO View Post

Yup, 800 watts. We'll just run them till they drop.

During normal listening I don't drive them that hard, they are now crossed over at 50hz, so my mains are taking a lot of the work off of them.


Yeah, I've looked at my drivers during really demanding scenes and they barely move 1 inch peak 2peak. Headroom is a great thing ..again great build, and give the Mrs what she wants as long as you can build casket size subs and she lets you drag em in the house !!!
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post #15 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

but aren't they only rated 800 watts LOL

Chad was conservative when he rated the Avalanches for 800 Watts. A lot of car audio people were driving them with 1000 Watts without any problem.

I have had my pair of Avalanches running of a Crown CE4000 (1200 Watts a channel) for several years now and have not had a problem.
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post #16 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedO View Post

Yup, 800 watts. We'll just run them till they drop.

During normal listening I don't drive them that hard, they are now crossed over at 50hz, so my mains are taking a lot of the work off of them.

I ran mine off 1500... single 15" at a time
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post #17 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nichol1997 View Post

Chad was conservative when he rated the Avalanches for 800 Watts. A lot of car audio people were driving them with 1000 Watts without any problem.

I have had my pair of Avalanches running of a Crown CE4000 (1200 Watts a channel) for several years now and have not had a problem.

ran my 1st 15 off an audiobahn "2000 watt" amp that did over 1000 till it clipped pretty bad. Then I ran an Opti2000D... 1600 RMS
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post #18 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 09:12 AM
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Nice job man!

That setup should be a rockin'!

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post #19 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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It’s all just temporary until the HT room in the basement gets built. That’s why the box size doesn’t matter that much, I’ll have the room once I move everything downstairs.
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post #20 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 10:30 AM
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What kind of center channel is that?

It's and interesting combination of drivers.

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post #21 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 12:09 PM
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"Chad was conservative when he rated the Avalanches for 800 Watts. A lot of car audio people were driving them with 1000 Watts without any problem. "

Not to pick on you, but when I see statements like this I wonder what's they're supposed to mean.

You mean some people used 1000 Wrms amps instead of 800?

That difference is totally insignificant to what the program material and listening level is and the kind of box.

Noah
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post #22 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 12:19 PM
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but then music is more constant vs HT having quick short bursts
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post #23 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 12:48 PM
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nice build! given your goals, your design should serve you well. i also like the 3/4" marine grade ply. that is one strong enclosure. i forget, is that stuff supposed to be void free? also, i didn't see any fiberglass in there. might want to plop some in just in case any internal resonance decides to stand up. are you crossing in around 50hz or so? have you selected a veneer and stain? that marine ply has pretty darn nice grain. maybe you could get some dark gel stain and skip the veneer.

side conversation...noah is right. 25% increase in power is just shy of a single db output, which is insignificant. doubling power gets you 3db, and a little less than that is really all that is worth talking about.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #24 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 03:12 PM
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it was a joke. the avalanche is very very close to the brahma and tumult

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/BrahmaPowerHandling.pdf
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post #25 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"Chad was conservative when he rated the Avalanches for 800 Watts. A lot of car audio people were driving them with 1000 Watts without any problem. "

Not to pick on you, but when I see statements like this I wonder what's they're supposed to mean.

You mean some people used 1000 Wrms amps instead of 800?

That difference is totally insignificant to what the program material and listening level is and the kind of box.

Yes, 1000 Wrms. And in my case 1200 Wrms provided by a CE4000. My enclosure is LLT tuned to 13 Hz, no high pass protection. I routinely take the amp up to just before clipping on demanding material (eg WOTW, Pulse, Master & Commander). My point is, the Ava are overbuilt and you are not going to hurt them running 950 Wrms in a sealed enclosure like the OP. Unless, of course, you are running sinewaves for extended periods of time.


By the way, how are your Avas doing?
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post #26 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

ran my 1st 15 off an audiobahn "2000 watt" amp that did over 1000 till it clipped pretty bad. Then I ran an Opti2000D... 1600 RMS

BTW I put "2000" in quotes because it's the worst large monoblock I've ever run, it maybe did 1000 before clipping... wasn't trying to "quote" amp power lol. My avalanche nor any oher subs liked that amp, the only subs I've ever burnt coils on...because it clipped severely. When I upgraded to the Opti2000D then several other larger amps, I haven't burnt a coil since.
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post #27 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 05:00 PM
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nice to see you around nichol. are you still running llt's? happy with them?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #28 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 05:21 PM
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"By the way, how are your Avas doing?"

Sold them for two pair of Mael18's, then sold a pair of those for the DTS-10, soon to be moved into its final resting place.

Noah
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post #29 of 38 Old 02-14-2010, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Marine grade is suppose to be void free and use a better glue, $66 a sheet. I have used it before for the floor and transom of my boat, very strong stuff.
I previously had my speakers crossed at 40hz and they sounded good, but with these dual 18’s I wanted to shift a little more of the burden onto them. I just tried 50 and it sounded good, and that was only playing the center channel speaker and the two subs.

I have 4 sheets of BH5 laying around so I am going to split them length wise and line the sidewall next to the driver and the back of the cabinet behind the driver. I will also stuff with fiberglass. This was just a test run before finishing to get an idea if how they are going to sound.

I’m going to use a ribbon Sapele wood veneer with a polyurethane finish. I like the light color and it will better match the other speakers.

The center speaker is a VMPS LRC (Large Ribbon Center). This is a great center speaker and matches the rest of my system. My mains have four ribbon mid panels each and the surrounds have two each, the sound quality from this setup matched to my Meridian Pre/Pro is truly heaven. Now that I’m adding these subs it’s my dream system come true. (I think I just got a chubby, thinking how good it’s going to sound once it’s all done and properly dialed in)
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post #30 of 38 Old 02-15-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

nice to see you around nichol. are you still running llt's? happy with them?

Thanks. I am happy with them. Although, I will eventually integrate my MBM (Mach 5 MJ-18) back into the system. They are sitting dormant now.
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