Offset Driver Horn Folding Tutorial Using Sketchup - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, as promised, here it begins....

Well, we need to get from a hornresp model we like, and turn it into something we can build. I am going to use The Shiva X2 driver from Exodus Audio, and do a 20Hz horn that is under 300 liters.

Here's the model:



The schematic:



Response:



Now the question is: How big is this thing going to be? Hornresp says it will be about 264 liters, under 10 cubic feet.....but hornresp doesn't factor in the fact that you will be using actual building materials....

So, rule of thumb I use is to add 20-30% to the hornresp volume figure. That takes us to ~345 liters or ~12 cu ft, which means around 20,000 cu in. I chose 20" as a good width figure, and ended up with ~32" for the other two dimensions. I don't have necessarily a definite form factor I want to obtain with this exercise, so I am just using a flat rectangle, that when up against a wall won't jut too much into a room.

OK, so the 20" dimension has been chosen. Converting to centimeters, that 20" becomes 50.8cm. Now you need to decide what building material you are going to use. 1/2" plywood is usually 12mm thick. So, for the large 32"x32" sides, we have to take away 2.4cm from the 50.8cm dimension, leaving us with 48.4cm. We will also need bracing, which I think can be accomplished with 1/4" plywood (6mm). For a 20" span, we'll use 2 sets of braces, taking us down another 1.2cm, to 47.2cm.

Let's Review:

20" x 2.54 = 50.8cm

50.8cm - 2.4cm for sides = 48.4cm

48.4cm - 1.2cm for bracing = 47.2cm

So now we get back into hornresp, and use that 47.2cm figure as our horn 'height'. When looking at the schematic drawing, Go to File, Export, Horn Data:

You get a dialogue box like this:



Use the 'UNI' flare, and choose whatever you want for the increments. I use large increments because this horn has a single, conical flare. After the first two segments (which I keep the same size so I can fit the driver), the horn doesn't change.

Name the file, and open it in Notepad:



Highlighted are the important numbers you will need to turn this from a bunch of numbers into a drawing:



Now, get into Sketchup and draw out the basic horn shape. As the numbers above show, it should be ~3.7cm 'tall' at the throat, and ~19.07cm 'tall' at the mouth. The throat stays at ~3.7cm for 34cm, then begins expanding until it hits the ~19.07cm mark 425cm later.

Here's a drawing:



Now, we need to 'line' it with 12mm plywood. Using the 'offset' tool in Sketchup, you can specify a 12mm offset, and color it like wood:



Now all you need to do is fold it up into a box...and get the rear chamber volume correct. To find out how much area needs to be in the rear chamber, we use the fact that we need a 50 liter chamber from the model, and work backwards:

50 liters = 50,000 cc

50,000cc + space the driver takes up (.13 cu ft = 3,681cc) = 53,681cc

53,681cc divided by 48.4cm (assuming no bracing in driver chamber) = 1109 sqcm.

So we need the driver chamber area to be ~1109 sq cm after we fold up the horn....

There are 2 basic folds, 90 and 180deg. Here are some illustrations:

Basic Simple OD horn shape:



90 deg fold:



180 deg fold:



Using those two folds, and folding either clockwise or anti-clockwise, you have a decent set of tools in your arsenal to come up with many different unique folding patterns...

One (the one I will use for the tutorial) is a spiral:



If you wish one dimension to be longer than another, you can use a spiral, or a few 180deg folds prior to a spiral (you have seen this on CinemaHorn designs):



Next we will go over how to do the folds in Sketchup.

JSS
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Before you jump in, please take the time to become familiar with Sketchup, so that I don't lose you when doing the vids...Here are some GREAT video tutorials:http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/training/videos.htmlBecome familiar with the following tools:LinePaint BucketMoveRotateTape MeasureOffsetDimensionNavigationPosition Camera/Look aroundAlso look at the more advanced videos for:InferencingCopy and ArraysAccuracyThis is basically all I use to get a 2D model/fold of a horn.Once you've made yourself familiar with Sketchup, you can start drawing and folding horns.The first video attached shows how to quickly generate a horn shape prior to folding:


JSS

Last edited by maxmercy; 07-27-2014 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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To make a 90 deg fold, use the line tool to generate a split in the horn, select the segment you need, and use the move tool with Ctrl+C to copy the section, rotate it, and reattach:


JSS

Last edited by maxmercy; 07-27-2014 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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So far, this is the barest of bare bones...making these vids is easy, but they are very big, and the resolution is OK...I thought I would be able to fold up the Shiva Horn with the vids, but that would make for a file that is too big....

Basically, I can answer specific Sketchup questions w/ vids, but I may not be able to show the whole process....

Any questions so far?

JSS
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:06 PM
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Awesome.

So I am doing it close to right (or at least similar to you)

.....I'm just pathetically slow!

Ahhhh, back to sketchup....

Thanks!
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll get to posting more vids in the coming days...the hardest part is when your folds start to interact with the structure already drawn, that's where the 'group' function reigns supreme....

JSS
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:09 AM
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Very nice so far - I should be able to apply some of this to my Paint Shop Pro attempts as well
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:18 AM
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AWESOME MAN

Max, you really are an asset to AVS. I think I speak for everyone in saying we appreciate all of your contributions
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mynym View Post

AWESOME MAN

Max, you really are an asset to AVS. I think I speak for everyone in saying we appreciate all of your contributions

+1

Good stuff man......good stuff.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:30 AM
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So - how do you account for the lengths through corners?

In a 90 it is not so bad, but in a 180, it looks like the horn "grows" quite a bit.

I only ask cause I'm not sure I'm doing things right yet.

I hope this makes sense, it is easier to do than to explain. I use the tape measure and pull a reference line that is 1/2 the width at the cut, then align the cut ends there and erase the overlaps. For the 180s, I just clip the divider back - it is accurate enough at the rates of flare I deal with in a tapped horn.

Folding tapped horns is a little bit mode complicated, as you've got to do all the above, as well as make sure that the mouth and throat meet where they are supposed to, and fill up the space as efficiently as possible. Throw in another flare rate and it can get UGLY quickly!
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:Originally Posted by lilmike So - how do you account for the lengths through corners?In a 90 it is not so bad, but in a 180, it looks like the horn "grows" quite a bit.I only ask cause I'm not sure I'm doing things right yet.I hope this makes sense, it is easier to do than to explain. I use the tape measure and pull a reference line that is 1/2 the width at the cut, then align the cut ends there and erase the overlaps. For the 180s, I just clip the divider back - it is accurate enough at the rates of flare I deal with in a tapped horn.Folding tapped horns is a little bit mode complicated, as you've got to do all the above, as well as make sure that the mouth and throat meet where they are supposed to, and fill up the space as efficiently as possible. Throw in another flare rate and it can get UGLY quickly!In a 180, I do the same thing, I pull back the divider by the amount of horn width at the beginning of the 180....I also add reflectors later to avoid the 'expansion' of the horn at the 180 that you talked about...See below:JSS


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Old 02-05-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

OK, as promised, here it begins....

Well, we need to get from a hornresp model we like, and turn it into something we can build. I am going to use The Shiva X2 driver from Exodus Audio, and do a 20Hz horn that is under 300 liters.

Here's the model:



The schematic:



Now the question is: How big is this thing going to be? Hornresp says it will be about 264 liters, under 10 cubic feet.....but hornresp doesn't factor in the fact that you will be using actual building materials....


OK, I think I am messed up here, could someone check me on this?

The horn in the above schematic has 3 segments:

L12, length 17cm, area at both ends 175 cm^2
L23, length 17cm, area at both ends 175 cm^2
L34, length 425cm, area expands from 175 cm^2 to 900 cm^2

So...
Volume of L12 = 2,975 cm^3
Volume of L23 = 2,975 cm^3
Volume of L34 = 228,437.5 cm^3
So Volume of just the horn is 234,387.5 cm^3 or 234.388 liters

Add in the volume of the drive chamber (50 liters) and you system volume should be 284.388 liters, right? Why is horn resp reporting 264.464 liters? Did you change your values between the first and second screen shot?

Chris

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Old 02-05-2010, 02:59 PM
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Interesting.

I just ran the numbers, I am getting similar results to Hornresp.

I get 208 L for the horn, add the throat for 214.5 L total. Add 50, I'm at 264.5.

Sanity check anyone???? (preferably someone more squared away than I am with respect to geometry...)
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:54 PM
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What's with the Shiva meets Tuba action? Would a vented box of =/< smaller size work just as well down to the cutoff?

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Old 02-05-2010, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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A vented box would be a close comparo...the things the horn has going for it compared to the vented box is sensitivity advantage above cutoff, and excursion control below cutoff...Also, the horn takes advantage of corner loading a little better than the vented box, giving a slight sensitivity advantage at the low corner, only when corner loaded.....

Basically, the design is hamstrung by the size. 300L built is just too small for a 20Hz FLH for the Shiva. Grow to 400L and you get a much more capable horn...see below for 300L vs 400L 20Hz Shiva OD FLH horns, 2V in, 2Pi space:



JSS
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Old 02-08-2010, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Interesting.

I just ran the numbers, I am getting similar results to Hornresp.

I get 208 L for the horn, add the throat for 214.5 L total. Add 50, I'm at 264.5.

Sanity check anyone???? (preferably someone more squared away than I am with respect to geometry...)

Well, since you are getting the same numbers as HornResp, can you tell me what numbers you used to get 208L? That's the volume in segment L34, right?

My math:
Avg area of L34 = (S3 + S4) / 2 = (900 + 175) / 2 = 537.5
Volume = AvgArea * Length = 537.5 * 425 = 228,437.5 cm^3 = 228.438L

Chris

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Old 02-08-2010, 02:32 PM
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You need to calculate the volume as a truncated square pyramid.

Online Calculator

V = 1/3*(a^2+ab+b^2)*h, where a = small side length, b = large side length, and h = height
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

You need to calculate the volume as a truncated square pyramid.

Online Calculator

V = 1/3*(a^2+ab+b^2)*h, where a = small side length, b = large side length, and h = height

Ah ha! That is what I am doing wrong. I'm thinking in 2 dimensions, but it is a 3-dimensional space. Thanks!

Chris

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Old 06-24-2013, 05:19 AM
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This folding works well too, but I don't get the 180 fold.. where does the gap go?
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:43 AM
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I think I need to practive my sketchup skills before I every tackle something like this, but thanks for the awesome tutorial MAXMERCY!

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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