What does jim holtz mini statements speakers compare to commercially? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:32 PM
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FWIW, I have a pair of Statement Monitors and they sound great to my ears. Very well balanced and neutral with a reasonably wide sweet spot (wide enough that every person watching/listening on the 12' wide sectional is happy). I also built a 2RCC (not even the exact matching center) and it seems to integrate perfectly well. Are they better than any commercial speaker under $5,000? I have no idea, but I sure like listening to them. And most other people that hear them are fairly impressed.

I have spent a fair amount of time reading posts and comments over at HTGuide and the one thing that really stands out, especially with Jim and Curt's posts, is the helpful, upbeat and complimentary nature of the posts. Even if they feel the need to critique a design or idea, they do so in a way that isn't obnoxious or degrading. They don't look at things in black and white and seem to understand that everyone has their own opinion of what sound right. Jim, just want to tell you that I appreciate all of the effort and help you have freely offered to the DIY community. I am going to go listen to some music now.

Matt
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Old 04-16-2011, 05:07 PM
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Congrats ds, you're the first poster ever on avs to cause me to use the ignore function. And there are plenty of outright trolls and idiots here that probably should have beat you to it.

The irony is that I agree with a great many of your beliefs and think our ideal speakers would each appeal to the other upon honest auditioning. Sadly, you are such a foul person that regardless of what information might be contained in your post, I could never learn anything from them.

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Old 04-17-2011, 10:18 AM
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Ds, is there any relation to Vas? To say there would be no difference in changing out amps is silly. Same speakers, pre, everything all I did was switch out an NAD and Onkyo integra power amp with similar power and they sounded completely different. And no, there was nothing wrong with either amp.

Dan
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:54 AM
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Although DS-21 seems dogmatic in his views, he does bring up one point that has me wondering. Since the Statements are designed with the open back tunnel, does placement of the speakers greatly affect how they sounds. What I mean is would 1foot from the back wall sound completely different than 3feet from the back wall? It sounds like the mid are working as some sort of dipole? How does this affect imaging and would this mean there can be nothing behind the speakers? I'm asking because many people put room treatments directly behind their speakers and I'm wondering how that would affect the sound.

Example: TJHUB's room
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

Since the Statements are designed with the open back tunnel, does placement of the speakers greatly affect how they sounds.

Yes. This is true of any speaker design.

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What I mean is would 1foot from the back wall sound completely different than 3feet from the back wall?

Probably. Very few speakers will sound decent 1 foot from a wall.

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It sounds like the mid are working as some sort of dipole?

More like aperiodic damping of the rear chamber. But some sort of dipole is good enough for placement considerations.

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I'm asking because many people put room treatments directly behind their speakers and I'm wondering how that would affect the sound.

I'd treat behind these just as any other speaker. In fact, with a full out dipole I still prefer to treat behind the speaker, so long as the treatment is sufficiently broadband. The appeal of dipole isn't the rear radiation per se but rather as an effective tool to control radiation. Rear radiation is a side effect that depending on proximity to the boundary can add to envelopment or can cause imaging issues. I prefer to damp that boundary and not worry any more about it.

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Old 04-18-2011, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

What I mean is would 1foot from the back wall sound completely different than 3feet from the back wall? It sounds like the mid are working as some sort of dipole? How does this affect imaging and would this mean there can be nothing behind the speakers? I'm asking because many people put room treatments directly behind their speakers and I'm wondering how that would affect the sound.

Rather than repeat an answer that's been given many times, I'd suggest you go to the HT Guide and search for the many build threads that answers all your questions.

Jim
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:12 PM
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Hi need advice,

I have been looking for speakers for a while now, but everytime something happens, right now i have an oppourtunity to buy a pair of statements for $600 to $700. How do these compare to Monitor Audio RS8 speakers or the monitor Audio GX300, Paradism SIG8. I have a good hook as some of new have heard i mentioned in other posts but it seems $$$ of late is an issue for me.

New house bigger mortage and a new baby on the way, so new bigger speakers ar egoing to be out of teh question, so i have beenlooking for some good budget speakers in the mean time for under $700, i lost out on a few deals on MA RS8's and the latest deal was QUAD 22L2. Now these statements have poped up and the coulor isnot what i would want but i can refinish them.

So the question how much better are these speakers over companies like monitor audio, paradigm etc... aldo are they better than my current Monitor Audio RS8 speakers??????

Please help as i dont think i have much time with these speakers or ill lose out again....

My Current 7.1 Set-Up
(2) Monitor Audio RS8'S: Fronts
(2) Monitor Audio RS8'S: Rear back
(1) Monitor Audio RSLCR: Centre channel
(2) Monitor Audio RSFX: Surrounds sides
(1) Paradigm Signature Sub25
Pioneer Elite SC-05
Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD
OPPO DV-981HD
Sony Play Station 3
APC Power Conditioner...
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:40 PM
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http://meniscusaudio.com/statements-pair-p-1338.html 1k+ in parts and wood so your getting a 40-50% discount off the price of the parts, where is your speakers probably cost 1/20ths of their retail price and the rest is just markup
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:04 AM
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do they sound and perform better? i do have the space for them, can they be upgraded as well? i can use my MA RS8 as my rear surrounds. i am gong to listen to them if he still has equipment to drive them

My Current 7.1 Set-Up
(2) Monitor Audio RS8'S: Fronts
(2) Monitor Audio RS8'S: Rear back
(1) Monitor Audio RSLCR: Centre channel
(2) Monitor Audio RSFX: Surrounds sides
(1) Paradigm Signature Sub25
Pioneer Elite SC-05
Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD
OPPO DV-981HD
Sony Play Station 3
APC Power Conditioner...
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:04 PM
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In my opinion, there is no single best speaker. Only the best speaker for your taste and your listening environment.

There is also the subjectivity issue to consider: Whether self constructed or purchased, often the owner's tendency is to find the choice they made a better choice than the ones they did not select.

Or, the concept that commercially designed speakers MUST sound better than DIY because they have the full R&D resources of their prestigious company behind them. However, in many cases it seems they must also have pressures having to do with marketing decisions and/or cost/profit margins that will work against producing an optimum design.

While I’ll leave it to others to critique the Statement series designs, I can say that over the years I've received many emails from Statement series builders hailing from 6 of the 7 continents. (Nobody’s emailed me from Antarctica yet) I have yet to have a response where the builder / listener was not ultimately satisfied with the sound of their Statements. Sure, a few had some initial issues, usually due to room placements, or wiring errors, but to my knowledge were all ultimately resolved. Many have compared the Statement series sound quality to commercial systems costing several times the investment made in their Statement series speakers. Certainly it is also possible that the individuals who didn’t like them felt no need to email me with their opinions.

I’ll leave it to you to decide…

Curt C
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

Although DS-21 seems dogmatic in his views, he does bring up one point that has me wondering. Since the Statements are designed with the open back tunnel, does placement of the speakers greatly affect how they sounds. What I mean is would 1foot from the back wall sound completely different than 3feet from the back wall? It sounds like the mid are working as some sort of dipole? How does this affect imaging and would this mean there can be nothing behind the speakers? I'm asking because many people put room treatments directly behind their speakers and I'm wondering how that would affect the sound.


Example: TJHUB's room
I had plans to build some acousti panels very similar to those this summer. I planned on using faux sued (microfiber). Do you remember which thread you found this picture at?

YID DIY
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:22 PM
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Have the statements been in any speaker shoot outs? everything i have read so far nobody compares them to any specific commercial brands MA, B&W, KEF, Paradigm etc...

My Current 7.1 Set-Up
(2) Monitor Audio RS8'S: Fronts
(2) Monitor Audio RS8'S: Rear back
(1) Monitor Audio RSLCR: Centre channel
(2) Monitor Audio RSFX: Surrounds sides
(1) Paradigm Signature Sub25
Pioneer Elite SC-05
Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD
OPPO DV-981HD
Sony Play Station 3
APC Power Conditioner...
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whasaaaab View Post

Have the statements been in any speaker shoot outs? everything i have read so far nobody compares them to any specific commercial brands MA, B&W, KEP, Paradigm etc...

Bump, I would like to know this too!
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Bump, I would like to know this too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whasaaaab View Post

Have the statements been in any speaker shoot outs? everything i have read so far nobody compares them to any specific commercial brands MA, B&W, KEF, Paradigm etc...

Anyone with this information??????

Come on statement owners where are you

My Current 7.1 Set-Up
(2) Monitor Audio RS8'S: Fronts
(2) Monitor Audio RS8'S: Rear back
(1) Monitor Audio RSLCR: Centre channel
(2) Monitor Audio RSFX: Surrounds sides
(1) Paradigm Signature Sub25
Pioneer Elite SC-05
Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD
OPPO DV-981HD
Sony Play Station 3
APC Power Conditioner...
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:34 AM
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I think a lot of the Statement builds are documented over at HT Guide. They have a huge DIY forum and a lot of Jim and Curt's designs are discussed over there. Might be the best place to get that info.

Scott
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc00541 View Post

In my opinion, there is no single best speaker. Only the best speaker for your taste and your listening environment.

There is also the subjectivity issue to consider: Whether self constructed or purchased, often the owner's tendency is to find the choice they made a better choice than the ones they did not select.

Or, the concept that commercially designed speakers MUST sound better than DIY because they have the full R&D resources of their prestigious company behind them. However, in many cases it seems they must also have pressures having to do with marketing decisions and/or cost/profit margins that will work against producing an optimum design.

While I’ll leave it to others to critique the Statement series designs, I can say that over the years I've received many emails from Statement series builders hailing from 6 of the 7 continents. (Nobody’s emailed me from Antarctica yet) I have yet to have a response where the builder / listener was not ultimately satisfied with the sound of their Statements. Sure, a few had some initial issues, usually due to room placements, or wiring errors, but to my knowledge were all ultimately resolved. Many have compared the Statement series sound quality to commercial systems costing several times the investment made in their Statement series speakers. Certainly it is also possible that the individuals who didn’t like them felt no need to email me with their opinions.

I’ll leave it to you to decide…

Curt C

Thanks for the post. I really like the class with which Curt and Jim handle some of these comments on this design they spend so much time and effort on. Although, depending on your beliefs I suppose, you might not see it the same way.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whasaaaab View Post

Have the statements been in any speaker shoot outs? everything i have read so far nobody compares them to any specific commercial brands MA, B&W, KEF, Paradigm etc...

Well, I have my opinion...

Years ago, before all the availability of design tools, DIY speaker design was something between a crap shoot and the black arts. In those days we DIY speaker builders did compare our designs to commercial ones, and it was common to attempt to clone certain well thought of designs. After all, the commercial designers had all the expensive tools, and we did not.

Now that we have the tools and the knowledge to use them properly, things are a little different. I suggest that as a group, DIY speaker designers have progressed beyond simple imitation, and our design goals and constraints are often substantially different than a commercial design.

Many commercial designers it appears are internally hampered by marketing constraints and cost/profit considerations. Design choices such as materials cost, complexity of construction, weight, size, and visual appeal, and voicing may be quite different between the DIY and commercial camps. Manufactures often work on slim profit margins, with significant marketing and advertising costs. Often compromises must be made to bring a product to market on budget.

For example, in many of my designs, the crossover components may cost nearly as much as the expensive drivers they support. To make budget, a commercial designer may have an allowance of just a few dollars for his crossover, and may also have to choose less capable drivers or materials in order to make his design profitable. DIY designs are generally well constructed, braced and heavy. For commercial manufacturers, weight increases shipping costs, as does large enclosures. To meet a cost point, commercial designs may have self imposed limitations that directly affect the quality of the end product.

In my experience, direct comparisons to commercial designs are far less informative than they once were.

C
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