The "REECARRAY" build! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

Well its tough to say. I'd say it was roughly around 10db. I went backwards from no CD sound up to where I like it. But if I go off the markings on my L-pad its roughly -10 to -12 db. Which would be right on with the CDs sensitivity being 107db and the array being 95db. Who knows man but so far so good! It can only get better.

When are you ordering x-over parts?
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post #92 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 06:15 PM
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Its a budget design so don't worry about perfection. You will enjoy it.

Those drivers are SOOOO tempting.

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post #93 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbgl View Post

I just read one of Penngray's posts on another forum that mentioned ARTA having a built in RTA. If you can play pink noise, you can measure your frequency response with the RTA.

Definitely, ARTA will play it all day for you and it has FFT (Size, Sample Rate, and averaging - linear and Exponential which is very useful)

Just press play and it runs for as long as you are tweaking, You can use a mic so that it displays the changes on the screen.

It will even take that Pink noise and convert it to an impulse for you.

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post #94 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 07:19 PM
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I should of stopped by to hear it. I called Reece to see if he needed help to get it in the basement,but he just had and was wiring it up.
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post #95 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by snickel View Post

I should of stopped by to hear it. I called Reece to see if he needed help to get it in the basement,but he just had and was wiring it up.

Do you have x-over parts, or measuring equipment?
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post #96 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 08:43 PM
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I have some parts and only REW.
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post #97 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike if im off tomorrow i think john was going to come over and give me a hand on building the second box. And well test and mess with the one i have built. Your more than welcome to stop by. It wouldnt even be until 4ish when he could make it over. But its not for sure depends on my work.

As far as that ARTA that sounds good, but i only have a sound card that works half way decently with REW and my RS SPL meter. So i dont believe that is the propr equipment to play with that software. And even with REW using its sine generator and sweeps when connected to my receiver i got nasty humming. So i always had to directly connect it to my sub amp to eliminate it. Im going to assume the issue would be same.


As far as ordering x-over parts i have no clue what id even need to order to start? I wouldnt be against some basic inline modifications here very soon. I still havent called PE about the defective L-pad so when i do that i can order some parts. If you wouldnt mind linking me to a few doo hickeys id need ill look into it very soon. But maybe i should hold off on the MAJOR x-over modifications and complete re-design until theyre both done and i have proper measuring equipment/software. I think until this happens ill have to settle on the receivers EQ, L-pad, and whatever small thing i can throw in-line at it.

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post #98 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 10:16 PM
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Reece--great to hear that you like it; now I don't have to feel bad about egging you on to build it . I'm really looking forward to your impressions with two in service.

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post #99 of 655 Old 03-11-2010, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

Reece--great to hear that you like it; now I don't have to feel bad about egging you on to build it . I'm really looking forward to your impressions with two in service.

Thanks man, i wouldve blamed you all if i hated it..... J/K LOL ! I went rogue anywho man even with all the bad news from dan the man i still bit the bullet. But none the less im glad i did it. Getting a little much needed experience. And once i can learn a little about x-overs there will be no stopping me haha.

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post #100 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

Thanks man, i wouldve blamed you all if i hated it..... J/K LOL ! I went rogue anywho man even with all the bad news from dan the man i still bit the bullet. But none the less im glad i did it. Getting a little much needed experience. And once i can learn a little about x-overs there will be no stopping me haha.

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post #101 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

Mike if im off tomorrow i think john was going to come over and give me a hand on building the second box. And well test and mess with the one i have built. Your more than welcome to stop by. It wouldnt even be until 4ish when he could make it over. But its not for sure depends on my work.

As far as that ARTA that sounds good, but i only have a sound card that works half way decently with REW and my RS SPL meter. So i dont believe that is the propr equipment to play with that software. And even with REW using its sine generator and sweeps when connected to my receiver i got nasty humming. So i always had to directly connect it to my sub amp to eliminate it. Im going to assume the issue would be same.


As far as ordering x-over parts i have no clue what id even need to order to start? I wouldnt be against some basic inline modifications here very soon. I still havent called PE about the defective L-pad so when i do that i can order some parts. If you wouldnt mind linking me to a few doo hickeys id need ill look into it very soon. But maybe i should hold off on the MAJOR x-over modifications and complete re-design until theyre both done and i have proper measuring equipment/software. I think until this happens ill have to settle on the receivers EQ, L-pad, and whatever small thing i can throw in-line at it.

Maybe you can create a music CD with pink noise. Play it on your dvd player, and measure with the ARTA RTA. The setup doesn't need to be perfect to be useful.

Snikel.... Do you have a good selection of caps, coils, and resistors, or just a few?
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post #102 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 05:17 AM
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He said something about a hum issue. I assumed it was due to inputing and outputing simultaneously with the sound card.
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post #103 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 05:30 AM
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You are quick, I deleted it because I re-read his post about the hum.

Although its probably the same has the hum I had. its the PC being plugged into the wall. My notebook had the hum until I disconnected the power. Its harder to do that if he isnt using a portable notebook.

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post #104 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 06:56 AM
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I'm thinking that adding a zobel to the CD might be a good idea.

Depending on how tough this CD driver is, maybe a 3 microfad cap and zobel would be an option for the x-over. I'm not sure if that would have enough protection for the CD though at high SPL.
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post #105 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 07:36 AM
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Ok, so the zobel would have the advantage of presenting a 'nice' impedance to the amp, but is there really all that much of an advantage to that? If he was using tubes, ok I could see that, but he's using a solid state amp in the receiver.

Edit: ok I get it now. Makes crossover work easier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki View Post

Some loudspeaker crossover designs include Zobel networks wired across the tweeter (high frequency) driver to compensate for the rise in impedance at high frequencies due to the inductance of the voice coil. The goal is to try to keep the load seen by the crossover circuitry as resistive as possible.


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post #106 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbgl View Post

I'm thinking that adding a zobel to the CD might be a good idea.

Depending on how tough this CD driver is, maybe a 3 microfad cap and zobel would be an option for the x-over. I'm not sure if that would have enough protection for the CD though at high SPL.

The 1425 Impedance is here.




It does not dip below 5 Ohms really so he should be okay.

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post #107 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

Ok, so the zobel would have the advantage of presenting a 'nice' impedance to the amp, but is there really all that much of an advantage to that? If he was using tubes, ok I could see that, but he's using a solid state amp in the receiver.

Edit: ok I get it now. Makes crossover work easier:

Even solid state amps do not like low impedances. It takes more Watts to handle those dips. I the case of the tweeter this isnt much of concern IMO.

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post #108 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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The graph penn posted is the exact CD im using with the same waveguide as well. Heres the link to the rest of them. http://sites.google.com/site/driverv...tion-cdx1-1425 You just have to click on the different links in red to get the each section of graphs for it. Is that more or less like that you would need me to get? Or am i needing a graph of my whole speakers operating range? Can an RS SPL meter be used with ARTA to measure? I dont think snickle has what i will need for this hes got a bunch of parts, but theyre all the same stuff and for a generic 6ohm x-over for the SLA's sine thats what hes building. I hope to make some saw dust on the second box today and have it finished over the weekend (thats just the plan you know how plans turn out).

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post #109 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Even solid state amps do not like low impedances. It takes more Watts to handle those dips. I the case of the tweeter this isnt much of concern IMO.

Zobel, may be the wrong term. Maybe it should be called a notch filter. A cap, a coil, and a resistor in series with each other and wired across the CDs terminals, is what I am referring to.

An L-pad that is set to reduce output 12db will not reduce all frequencies equally if the impedance varies a great deal. So, the 1.2k to 2.5k range might not be reduced as much as the over 5k range will be. The difference may be small, but it could allow a little more clean SPL, and possibly a better tonal balance. The notch I'm suggesting, would reduce the impedance bump on the low end.

If the x-over for the CD is switched to a single 3 microfarad cap (or something close), it should level off the CD response quite a bit, but the rolloff on the low end of the CDs output might not be steep enough with just the cap. Adding the notch filter, will alter the low end rolloff. It should anyways. Measuring would be advised before playing it loud.

What is the recommended minimum x-over frequency and slope for this CD?
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post #110 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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well the manufacturer says the response is 2khz to 20khz but the reccomended x-over point is 2.5khz. You can cross lower with at the manufacturers discretion. Penn is crossing his at 1.7khz or mayeb even 1.5khz right now.

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post #111 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

The graph penn posted is the exact CD im using with the same waveguide as well. Heres the link to the rest of them. http://sites.google.com/site/driverv...tion-cdx1-1425 You just have to click on the different links in red to get the each section of graphs for it. Is that more or less like that you would need me to get? Or am i needing a graph of my whole speakers operating range? Can an RS SPL meter be used with ARTA to measure? I dont think snickle has what i will need for this hes got a bunch of parts, but theyre all the same stuff and for a generic 6ohm x-over for the SLA's sine thats what hes building. I hope to make some saw dust on the second box today and have it finished over the weekend (thats just the plan you know how plans turn out).

Very Cool! Penn, can you find a 3 or 4 microfarad cap, and connect it to one lead of the CD and take a measurement for us?
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post #112 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 11:48 AM
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I just checked, I have 6 4 microfarad caps.
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post #113 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright got the second box all cut out. Both sides top and bottom are being glued to the baffle right now. Later on tonight or tomorrow ill put in the bracing and put on the back panel. Now i just need to decide on what size base to make. The speaker 12" widex9"deepx64" high. What do you guys think would be a good size to offer sufficient stability? I was thinking maybe 20"x20" or 24"x18"? And then whatever height i decide on to lift the tweeter high enough.

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post #114 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 07:45 PM
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I am reading this thread with a lot of interest and I just wanted to thank you for all of the detail.

I vote for the biggest base you can fit , you just have to love the whole monolithic style of a big speaker.

Kudos to your build, mine will be very soon.

Jeff

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post #115 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxdowne View Post

I am reading this thread with a lot of interest and I just wanted to thank you for all of the detail.

I vote for the biggest base you can fit , you just have to love the whole monolithic style of a big speaker.

Kudos to your build, mine will be very soon.

Jeff

Thank you! I would like to keep it an even platform width all the way around. Even though the speaker isnt square it may give it a more squared off look so like 24" x 21". The only issue i have right now is im not sure if i need a spacer of some sorts to lift the bottom speaker higher from the flat part of the base. I dont know if a hard flat surface 1" below the bottom of the bottom speaker will couse any sort of issues.

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post #116 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by reecew View Post

I dont know if a hard flat surface 1" below the bottom of the bottom speaker will couse any sort of issues.


It won't.

If you are using them without a center, maybe the tweeter would work well up a little higher than ear level when seated. Maybe 1/3rd up from the bottom of your screen.

Don't forget to order the replacement woofer. If it were me, I'd get a couple extras just in case something happens to one.

I think I'd mount the x-over in the base. Lots of room, and no woofers to remove for access.
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post #117 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew View Post

I was thinking maybe 20"x20" or 24"x18"? And then whatever height i decide on to lift the tweeter high enough.

Do the speakers need to sound good for people standing around the room?
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post #118 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 08:34 PM
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I've been following your investigations with a good deal of interest, great job. I've been intrigued enough to to order enough parts to do some playing of my own ;-) I'm not attempting the array but a MMTMM using the Peerless mids, a D200-E compression driver and the PE crossover (3000 Hz). I've ordered the ewave crossover boards from Zilch and hope to find a suitable cab to build those as well. Thanks for the inspiration...
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post #119 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbgl View Post

It won't.

If you are using them without a center, maybe the tweeter would work well up a little higher. Maybe 1/3rd up from the bottom of your screen.

Don't forget to order the replacement woofer. If it were me, I'd get a couple extras just in case something happens to one.

I think I'd mount the x-over in the base. Lots of room, and no woofers to remove for access.

I shouldve but too late! theyre already mounted the bottom of the boxes. That wouldve definitely been the way to go. I glued them in since they had a wood piece on the bottom. Or else id pull them out and do that for sure. Its on though. Thanks for the clarification on the woofer and base issue. I was planning on a tweeter height around 40" my ear height is about 36". That would have me needing an 8" tall base.

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post #120 of 655 Old 03-12-2010, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbgl View Post

Do the speakers need to sound good for people standing around the room?

Ok the tweeter height when i tested was 32" it sound good over my whole entire LP as long as i didnt toe it in more than like 15*. As soon as you got on axis with it at that height it got slightly harsh. but 1foot to the left or right great again. I think higher than listening level is good because the same held true if you sat on the floor or stood up it sound fine all over the room. I hope this makes sense.

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