Diy line arrays!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 113 Old 04-01-2014, 01:16 PM
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Presuming that the resistive shading ( re post #66) is addressing aspects of pattern interference(?)

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post #92 of 113 Old 04-01-2014, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSyd View Post

I'm guessing the Ribbons xover had an aggressive slope?

Yes - 96db is possible with the DEQX.

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post #93 of 113 Old 04-01-2014, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i wonder if the comb-filtering inherent to line arrays is largely filtered out by our brains.

a typical speaker measured in a room suffers from a lot of "grass" in the high frequencies because of all the reflection-based cancellations, but I'm not sure we hear any of that.

I've always wondered that too. I'd like to think that the environment also would play quite an effect on that brain auto EQ.

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post #94 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 04:43 AM
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Questions for the experts: how does crossover building & design on line array speakers compare to the crossover efforts on conventional 2-way or 3-way designs?
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post #95 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post

This new design works quite well Ivan :-)

Works "quite well" in what way?

Do you have measured data?

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post #96 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

...how does crossover building & design on line array speakers compare to the crossover efforts on conventional 2-way or 3-way designs?
With drivers aligned on an axis: The spatial offset of the drivers reduces the effective coupled bandwidth, so the HF crossover has to be lowered.
* Rick utilized an active crossover with a very high slope on a lower frequency point to allow better acoustic integration.
This slope rate could not practically be achieved with passive components.

* Disclaimer: my take on HIS approach cool.gif

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post #97 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 08:45 AM
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ivan, i suspect that he is shooting for something like this:

http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/CBT.php

but in a little easier to work with form factor.


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post #98 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSyd View Post

Presuming that the resistive shading ( re post #66) is addressing aspects of pattern interference(?)

It helps smooth out the vertical response. Here's a link to Don Keele's AES paper for further explanation http://audioartistry.com/Papers/CBT%20Paper6%20PerformanceRankingof%20Line%20Arrays.pdf
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post #99 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 10:42 AM
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Yeah Rick:
Keele's papers are an invaluable source ( downloaded and read them repeatedly cool.gif )
Didn't want to speak for you - but surmised as much;
As I recall "resistive shading" popped up on occasion in Ed Dell's mags, and Phillips experimented with it as well.

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post #100 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 10:57 AM
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Key being ... frequency invariance, that's the good stuff.

Keele is an audio giant.

I've been fortunate enough to have experienced Rick Craig's CBTs, head-to-head up against Synergies, Catalyst', and Noesis, they're great ... and a real effort to mitigate acoustic distortions imposed by the room.
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post #101 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 11:24 AM
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Nice...
RE: Keele selections:
#32 "Implementation of Straight-Line and Flat-Panel Constant Beamwidth Transducer (CBT) Loudspeaker Arrays Using Signal Delays,"
http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/PDF/Keele%20(2002-10%20AES%20Preprint)%20-%20CBT%20Paper2.pdf
Is a classic wink.gif

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post #102 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I've always wondered that too. I'd like to think that the environment also would play quite an effect on that brain auto EQ.

We can measure many things but sometimes it's difficult to define how audible the results are. This kind of falls into that category.

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post #103 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

Works "quite well" in what way?

Do you have measured data?

I've been taking measurements and hop to have everything done in a week or less. I'm not sure if you know but I've worked with Don Keele on some CBT array designs including the largest one ever built
I understand that with pro sound being your main focus that you're often bidding on jobs where others are suggesting line arrays. All speakers have their limitations, regardless of the design - it's just a matter of what tradeoffs you want to make (or what the room dictates). I have heard commercial arrays that sound very good as well as not so good. The same is true with more conventional horn systems and also Danley designs.

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post #104 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 03:00 PM
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I have heard commercial arrays that sound very good as well as not so good.
So have I - In a couple of cases it was the fault of the operator.
Sometimes one hears a bad review of a system and has an opportunity to hear it in real life, and finds that reviews are not the fault of the system but the failure of the installer/operator.

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post #105 of 113 Old 04-02-2014, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Questions for the experts: how does crossover building & design on line array speakers compare to the crossover efforts on conventional 2-way or 3-way designs?

It really depends on the design - some are more difficult and others less complicated.

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post #106 of 113 Old 04-10-2014, 10:22 AM
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Here are some of the initial measurements of the Lineoceros. I'm using a DEQX for the crossover but have not applied the room correction.




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post #107 of 113 Old 04-11-2014, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSyd View Post

With drivers aligned on an axis: The spatial offset of the drivers reduces the effective coupled bandwidth, so the HF crossover has to be lowered.
* Rick utilized an active crossover with a very high slope on a lower frequency point to allow better acoustic integration.
This slope rate could not practically be achieved with passive components.

* Disclaimer: my take on HIS approach cool.gif

So you are saying that the space between the drivers, (mid-range or tweeters?) reduces the way the mids and tweeters couple or sum in certain areas of the bandwidth? So the lower the frequency that you crossover the tweeters to the mid-range drivers, the better they will couple or sum to form one wide pattern of sound that the listener perceives as one complete & cohesive sounding speaker? Do I have the basic theory right or am I way off in left field? How does having the HF's crossed over lower affect the coupled bandwidth?

So being that the tweeters have to be crossed so low, is this the reason for the ultra high slope used in the active crossover? If I understand correctly, with a 96db slope crossed at 1200hz the tweeters would be 96db's down at one octave below that at 600hz, thus saving the tweeter from playing lower than it's intended, and keeping the SQ clean with reduced distortion as you would normally have with a tweeters crossover slope being higher at say 6db or 12db. Do I have this part correct as well?
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post #108 of 113 Old 04-11-2014, 07:22 AM
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You are one the right track in both paragraphs:
The key phrase is "mutual coupling"
See if you use Google Books to get to page 78,79 of
Electroacoustical Reference Data
By John Eargle
Acoustic Summation is not an easy concept to convey
However mutual coupling is a concept in optics and electronics and radio/microwave communication.


http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/audio/spk.html
http://www.bnoack.com/index.html?http&&&www.bnoack.com/audio/mutualcoupling.html
http://www.zainea.com/mutualcoupling.htm

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post #109 of 113 Old 11-12-2014, 11:07 AM
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So here we are, 4 years later and still no DIY Line Array was ever built... Why not?

I still have my 3 cases of Sony drivers - and still no design or $$ LOL
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post #110 of 113 Old 11-12-2014, 11:11 AM
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Expensive

Not to mention people around here are afraid to build their own speakers that are not from a kit. There are not very many DIY line array 'kits' available.

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post #111 of 113 Old 11-12-2014, 11:47 AM
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^
a set of SLA plans from BFM certainly isn't a "complete kit" except that with the "right attitude"
it IS!

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post #112 of 113 Old 11-12-2014, 02:59 PM
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You can always start with a few components and apply a protective Hpass on highs and do a basic lowpass crossover in a sealed cabinet and see how you like it. Then go from there. Trial and error does work well for me.
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post #113 of 113 Old 11-12-2014, 03:34 PM
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Line arrays are just cool.
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