Wayne Parham's Pi 4 Build Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 126 Old 11-14-2010, 09:57 AM
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Looking forward to my build, once the holidays come to pass.

Do you find they need to be toed in ? How big is your current listening room ?
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post #92 of 126 Old 11-15-2010, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Looking forward to my build, once the holidays come to pass.

Do you find they need to be toed in ? How big is your current listening room ?

My current listening room is 16' x 12.5'. The speakers are on the 16' wall in the corners. Seating position is about 10.5' away. I am running the Pi4s only (no subwoofer).

When the speakers are aimed (toed-in) at me they have more treble. When they face straight forward, they have a little less treble (less in your face sound to them) and a little more bass.

I guess it is personal preference as to which sounds better. To me, I prefer when they face forward.
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post #93 of 126 Old 12-07-2010, 06:38 PM
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based on your previous comments about the tung oil, i was kind of expecting a poor outcome, but your finishing work is fantastic! why aren't you running your missile silo subs with them?

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post #94 of 126 Old 12-14-2010, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

based on your previous comments about the tung oil, i was kind of expecting a poor outcome, but your finishing work is fantastic! why aren't you running your missile silo subs with them?

Thanks for the compliment. I think the problem with the tung oil was due to the stain that I applied beforehand. The stain had polyurethane in it which prevented the tung oil from adhering in certain areas.

The missile silos have been retired to the basement. I will eventually move the Pi4s downstairs as well but until then I will be enjoying them for music only.
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post #95 of 126 Old 12-14-2010, 09:39 PM
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I've seen the missile silos shake your 2nd floor windows quite violently so I suspect the basement is the safest place until you build a storm proof bunker of a theater.
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post #96 of 126 Old 12-15-2010, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I've seen the missile silos shake your 2nd floor windows quite violently so I suspect the basement is the safest place until you build a storm proof bunker of a theater.

I remember, I believe I was demoing the movie Pulse when you noticed the windows shaking. One of my favorite bass movies.
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post #97 of 126 Old 12-15-2010, 07:44 PM
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so, after some time with them, how are you liking them?

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post #98 of 126 Old 01-06-2011, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

so, after some time with them, how are you liking them?

I am still using the Pi4s for music listening and I am pleased with them. They are super clear and I am noticing a lot of details in music that I have not heard before. I had a friend over recently who owns a couple different varieties of Klipsch speakers, I will try to get him to post his impressions of my Pi4s.
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post #99 of 126 Old 01-12-2011, 12:34 PM
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cool.

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post #100 of 126 Old 02-19-2012, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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It has been over a year since the last post was made so i thought I would give an update.
I am running the Pi4s with my recently built JBL 2242h subs (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1363719) and I am really loving the sound of this setup. My system has no detectible distortion, even at insane listening levels. Everyone that has seen/heard the setup is blown away. They are super clear and accurate sounding.

For the first time in years, I have not had the urge to build new speakers. There is nothing that I feel that needs improvement upon. For anyone on the fence about the Pi4s, build them and you will not be disappointed.
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post #101 of 126 Old 02-19-2012, 09:09 PM
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"For the first time in years, I have not had the urge to build new speakers. There is nothing that I feel that needs improvement upon."

a-w-e-s-o-m-e.

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post #102 of 126 Old 02-19-2012, 09:34 PM
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I appreciate the update! I want to build them even more now!
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post #103 of 126 Old 05-07-2012, 09:38 AM
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Nichol1997, All,

Do you know what the diameter of the two ports is on the ports and the length of the ports?

I may have to copy you on these!

Thanks,
andy
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post #104 of 126 Old 05-10-2012, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Internal diameter of the port is 4". The length of the port is 9.25".
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post #105 of 126 Old 06-12-2012, 01:51 AM
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Hi nichol

Your speakers look really good:), I just have a few question if you don't mind helping me.
How would the Pi4's compare to the Stentorian or are they 2 completely different speakers meaning sound wise as I know the looks and build is different.

For movies would Pi4 be the right speakers to have upfront also what would compliment them for surrounds.

In regards to getting them playing would I need like a EP2500 or could I use my Onkyo 708 to drive them for the time being and would the 708 be able to handle the speakers.

Why do you and most of the guys put the putty with duct tape around the horn.

Finally could you point me in the right direction where to get the cross over plans and designs or kit for the Pi4's which include the jbl woofer you used.

Thank you for response in advance
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post #106 of 126 Old 06-12-2012, 02:03 AM
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Go to where it was designed... www.pispeakers.com

The extra caulking or other materials on the horn is because some thought the h290 horn had some ringing or had a tinny sound that was remedied by adding some mass. A cheap but supposedly effective tweak.

Yes, these speakers are very efficient and don't require a huge amp. They are passive and could easily be powered by any A/V receiver.

Enjoy. smile.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #107 of 126 Old 06-12-2012, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHIE View Post

Why do you and most of the guys put the putty with duct tape around the horn.


Wayne has stated that he doesn't think that the horn needs any treatment. When I built my 4Pi's I would snap my finger on the raw horn (plastic) and detect a slight ringing, I wrapped mine in putty and no more ringing. Does it make a difference in final result? I think you would need some really good test gear and do an A/B test to find out.

Just a heads up for new Pi builders, Wayne has written about the fact that the horn that he used is going out of production. He has found anouther source and will be selling a drop in replacement for the Eminance horn. From what he says about the horn it may be worthing of an upgrade.


from his site:


"There is no suitable alternative to the H290, now designated H290C. The horn/waveguide properties are very specific, and it cannot be substituted without a complete redesign/test cycle. The biggest issue is the position of the acoustic center, which is affected both by the acoustic load and the depth of the device. The size and shape of the H290C are precisely set to provide the right beamwidth, loading and acoustic center.

The problem many people are facing is that Eminence discontinued the H290 horn. They were getting them from an overseas supplier that has stopped making them. We are now making the H290C horn/waveguide - and in fact, have updated the profile to be a pure catenary flare. It is essentially a plastic version of the wood horn we've been making for years, so we could leverage the design work we've already done.

http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=17226

So my suggestion is to purchase the horns from us. There are other suppliers that still have the H290 in stock, but it is rapidly dwindling. Besides, our new H290C is an improved device, one that can be considered an upgrade. It uses the same baffle cutout and mounting holes, so it's an easy bolt-on replacement. "
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post #108 of 126 Old 06-12-2012, 08:33 AM
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Scott & Big thanx for replies
So basically by building these I won't go wrong for my front stage. Big do you think I should get the new horn or buy the old 1 and the final part of my previous question which speakers would accompany these well as surrounds or do the Pi4's have a baby bother that comes in as surrounds or what do you guys use that has build these already.
Thanx again for the replies.smile.gif
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post #109 of 126 Old 06-12-2012, 10:13 AM
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I like my 4pi's without a doubt. There is an up and coming development over on the DIY Sound Group (Google it) front using a new horn named SEOS that was designed by a number of enthusiasts to be the "perfect horn" Designs are evolving and I suspect that within a few month you will see even more designs and more importantly a flat pack of the cabinets.

The upgraded 4Pi is not for those hoping to save a lot of money as the cost of the raw JBL 15 inch sub has gone through the roof.


The SEOS project:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here/0_40
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post #110 of 126 Old 06-25-2012, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated my 2nd post to include measurements.
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post #111 of 126 Old 08-12-2012, 09:45 AM
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Hi guys.

I was wondering one thing... Are there any off axis measurements of 4Pi assembled speaker box up to say ... 30 degrees ?

I can't seem to find it on the web. If someone did them i would appreciate the link.

Thanks smile.gif

........ i thought i taw a puddy tat .....
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post #112 of 126 Old 08-12-2012, 10:08 AM
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post #113 of 126 Old 08-12-2012, 10:18 AM
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Thanks LTD02. Dumb me, the only place that i didn't look is on the manufacturers site.

They look rather good.

I didn't expect them to be so good because JBL 2226H factory off axis measurement looks very bad. It drops rapidly after 500Hz 45 degrees off axis.

........ i thought i taw a puddy tat .....
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post #114 of 126 Old 08-12-2012, 12:20 PM
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no problem. wayne's website is not as good as his speakers. :-)

"I didn't expect them to be so good because JBL 2226H factory off axis measurement looks very bad. It drops rapidly after 500Hz 45 degrees off axis."

that's not right. what are you looking at?

the 2226 is down 6db at 45 degrees somewhere around 1khz like almost every other 15" driver.

here is a jbl speaker with that driver and horizontals: http://www.fullcompass.com/common/files/7991-AM6215_95.pdf

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post #115 of 126 Old 08-12-2012, 02:16 PM
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I was looking at this:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2226.pdf

You're right. It is 6dB at 1KHz but that didn't look insignificant to me. I expected it to show somewhere on the off axis measurements but obviously i was wrong.

........ i thought i taw a puddy tat .....
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post #116 of 126 Old 08-12-2012, 04:55 PM
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no worries. i'm still not sure what you were looking at, as the 2226 spec sheet only provides on-axis response along with 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortions.

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post #117 of 126 Old 08-13-2012, 03:49 AM
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There are measurements on and off axis in PDF sheet. Here it is:



........ i thought i taw a puddy tat .....
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post #118 of 126 Old 08-13-2012, 12:09 PM
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i'm not sure what the heck i was looking at, but yeah, that off axis performance is going to be pretty similar for most 15" drivers. with different cone profiles, it can vary a little, but the 2226 is down 6db at 45 degrees at right around 1khz.

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post #119 of 126 Old 08-13-2012, 12:26 PM
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How come it measures so good ?

Geddes had to make xover point as low as 800-900Hz to match directivity and to do it without holes in FR when they are toed in. I read that xover point in 4Pi is 1600 Hz. JBL 2226 is - 12dB at that frequency. Is it possible that because tweeter has 12dB\o filter, it goes as low and helps woofer making off axis frequency rersponse of the speaker flat as pancake ?

........ i thought i taw a puddy tat .....
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post #120 of 126 Old 08-13-2012, 01:12 PM
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the low pass filter on the woofer in the 4pi is 1300hz. there is a little wiggle room.

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