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post #271 of 822 Old 09-09-2010, 09:08 PM
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You're one up on me, I've posted dozens of perfectly acceptable designs as well as many more PM requests and to date I know of only one tapped pipe started, but never completed AFAIK.

GM

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post #272 of 822 Old 09-09-2010, 09:33 PM
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You are being too modest, "perfectly acceptable designs." Your stuff is very sound.

I know what you mean about PM requests. I usually never give out any of my own designs. I will help someone with theirs, or just give them an overview of how to do it. Give them a few pointers, some starter horn profiles, offer to help them in their further endeavors/designs, and never hear from 90% again.

If they keep at it, and build one on their own, I am more incline to do all the design work the next time if needed. As long as they keep it to themselves.
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post #273 of 822 Old 09-09-2010, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko View Post

There is indeed a net benfit to be had by using a second driver changing the tap position and altering the flare.

But this is no longer the elegant solution that this fine thread is about.

Maybe a thread showing what GM has designed would be in order? Come on Greg you know you have a good design there!

Hmm, unfortunately, your clarification leaves me wondering what constitutes an 'elegant solution'. To my way of thinking, the small dual driver design is one, though this has nothing to do with my original point.

WRT the single driver one, it's small enough that I didn't need to fold it up to tell that some space would have to wasted to make the driver fit, but again, it had nothing to do with my point, i.e. while super low Vas drivers can be made to work in THs, the math says they really need two or more to get the net Vb required for good acoustic loading same as occurs when using them in any other vented alignment.

Regardless, if Mike's design is doubled, then it increases it ~3 dB and of course if available power is increased it could be double that and then some depending on the frequency, so it depends on the needs of the app whether the extra bulk/cost can be justified or better to use a different driver/alignment.

Do you mean the dual driver one? No one seems to have any interest and I'm not going to spend any time on folding any design I don't plan to build for myself.

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post #274 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 08:59 AM
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Just a note...... I don't know what everyone is building with the drivers but my best guess is that around 10-15 people have built this extremely well documented build.

There isn't 1000s of DIYers building anything let alone something that gets complicated.

I've played around modeling a 2-driver version myself and while I've managed to get something that looks good in HR the folding is like a Chinese puzzle. Most of the work is the mechanicals & figuring out how to design something that is easy to build.

The other piece to the puzzle is the electronics. I've designed a quick and easy signal processing board with a 2nd order HP (subsonic), 4th order LP and threw a couple notches on there and have it on the same board as a pair of LM3886s. I could bridge them (the Z is high enough) but I figured limiting the power to 60W or there abouts per driver is a good method of protecting the drivers from overexcursion/thermal abuse.

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post #275 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 09:51 AM
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What?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
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post #276 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 10:36 AM
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Kevin,

So are you going to offer a dedicated mini-amp for these drivers, or are you just playing around? Are ssales of the Exodus driver not much if you figure only a few have built them based your #'s, if so that's too bad, after seeing these things in person they are one beefy mid driver.

Maybe if somebody breaks out the roundover bit and the black paint more people would build, you know they have to ID
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post #277 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

What?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

I'm just saying that not many people have built them.

The rest of my post is just rambling (my thoughts) on the 2-driver version. It is easy enough to design something that works well in HR but difficult to design the layout and fold it.

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post #278 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

Kevin,

So are you going to offer a dedicated mini-amp for these drivers, or are you just playing around? Are ssales of the Exodus driver not much if you figure only a few have built them based your #'s, if so that's too bad, after seeing these things in person they are one beefy mid driver.

Maybe if somebody breaks out the roundover bit and the black paint more people would build, you know they have to ID

I'm just playing around for my own use. I'm not offering anything DIY because it would be a nightmare to support. That and I couldn't sell it for anything near what it would require unless I sold it as a finished product (ie. expensive and not interesting to DIYers).

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post #279 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 12:23 PM
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The trick to making a mass appeal DIY horn is to simplify the build. (Other than the trick of finding the right driver...) All pieces should be at right angles, so the horn must be "digitized" as TD says. This requires something other than HR, but it would greatly increase the appeal.

The unsolvable problem is that everyone wants to get too low, too loud, in too small of a package.
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post #280 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

The trick to making a mass appeal DIY horn is to simplify the build. (Other than the trick of finding the right driver...) All pieces should be at right angles, so the horn must be "digitized" as TD says. This requires something other than HR, but it would greatly increase the appeal.

The unsolvable problem is that everyone wants to get too low, too loud, in too small of a package.

The one already designed is easy enough to build. It doesn't get much simpler and the cost of the materials is trivial. It makes a reasonable trade-off for both size and bandwidth and people still want something different. I imagine that would be the case no matter what you designed.

I deal with it every day and it just doesn't apply to horns. People want small high output subs that are cheap and go deep. In other words... they want everything.

Kevin Haskins
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post #281 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

The trick to making a mass appeal DIY horn is to simplify the build. (Other than the trick of finding the right driver...) All pieces should be at right angles, so the horn must be "digitized" as TD says. This requires something other than HR, but it would greatly increase the appeal.

Yeah I agree, but as Lilmike and Kevin have posted this build is really quite simple. I think there are only 4 or 5 angle cuts, but are only 1.5deg so as Lilmike has posted if using PL or another thick/expansion polyurethane glue you don't even have to worry about it. Honestly the longest part of the build was the layout, the measurements provided give placement from adjacent parts, so technically if you started with the 3 sides you could glue/nail going of the measurements alone. I just prefer to have guide lines when there is angles involved, and think a Sketch-up file with corner points based off the outer edges would simplify things even more. I may draw one up and post it this weekend if I have time. All in all it only took 5 hours from sheet-ply to an assembled box in the clamps. The other thing I think that may net more builders is if it was refolded into a 1/2 height box that had a pocket for an plate amp, for many this arrangement would make more sense for computer, bedroom systems, etc.
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post #282 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 06:32 PM
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Hi soho54

I've been doing horns for over 16 years now. Gm has me beat on that count to. There are quite a few guys on the forum who know how to work with Hornresp. I know how to work with the program and take what it spits out and make a viable box.


I have a proposition for you. We, you and I or anyone else who cares to add two cents into the mix come up with a Hornresp wish list for a dual Anarchy box. Once we have it simmed propperly I'll do the fold and make a prototype. Meausre it up and if it works as planned we post the design. If someone is a sketchup wizard let him take a bow and take the drawing to fruition. I can do a cutlist in minutes with the program Cutlist and a straight thought or two.

Would be an interesting endeavor.

What you say?

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post #283 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 09:43 PM
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LBDiver,

I also agree that is is a simple build, but none of my comments the last few pages have anything to do with this horn. They are based on hypothetical horns, and general horn issues.

In my discussions with people about there horn builds it is not the angled cuts, but the angled panels themselves that turn people off. Most seem to make up their mind that it will be too easy to mess up upon assembly. Lately, they quote the problems several people where having with the DTS-10's lining up, and they were all slotted.

Your idea of adding a diagram pulling the corner placements from the exterior sides for this build would be helpful to some I'm sure.
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post #284 of 822 Old 09-10-2010, 10:41 PM
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Soho54,

Apologize for the mix-up, I thought we were talking about least nearly the same thing this whole time, i.e. a 1 or 2 driver Exodus horn.

I have not followed the DTS-10 builds, the little I read was regarding final FR, seemed improper placement. However just looking at the 1st page I can see how people had issues with the build. Dado's are a thing of beauty in simple form, but having multiple angle pieces line up over a ~4ft expanse is a greater task, especially if everything is cut with a CNC and therefore minimal tolerance. I don't know if anybody suggested it in the thread, but simply breaking the edges of the intermediate parts helps a lot.

With this horn I found I had a few inner baffles that while in alignment on one side were 1/16th to an 1/8th out on the open side while square along the inner edge due to the induced warp from this sheet leaning against a wall for many months. While, perfectly aligned dado's would have been the easiest, I just took some extruded polystyrene and back-cut it excessively so that a limited edge (1/8") was holding the proper gap. Then when I de-clamped I just blew the bits out with blow-gun since they were following an ever increasing expanse. Ultimately I have to say since one's eyes should see at least 1/32", people should be able to easily recognize whether a gap is expanding or not, therefore I find it hard for someone to screwup too bad.
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post #285 of 822 Old 09-11-2010, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko View Post

I know how to work with the program and take what it spits out and make a viable box.

I think you are taking my comments the wrong way. I am not trying to make lite of your experience or knowledge here.

The only reason I brought up the fact that I have designed horns before, is because your sole argument against my posts was that I was somehow missing the fact that wood and corners waste space, and that this would somehow make my 57l raw horn vastly larger then the original 57l horn. That would be post 269.

Again, I am not trying to imply that you do not have a clue.

As for the offer, if you start a new thread, and I feel I have anything to offer I will. I am really not trying to build a better mouse trap here. Just defending my post.
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post #286 of 822 Old 09-11-2010, 01:42 AM
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So, I took the original inner-fold Sketchup file (thanks Lilmike) and made a version dimensioned from the inner side of each baffle. I colored it so the 1st dimensions (Red) is the driver baffle and it proceeds in standard color order until the front face. Let me know what you think, if you want dimensions for the opposing edge of each baffle, or anything else that would simplify the process of building, I will add it. I plan to add a second diagram that also shows which edges have the 1.5deg angle for people who want to make things exact.

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post #287 of 822 Old 09-11-2010, 07:49 AM
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@LBDiver

Very nice, thanks!
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post #288 of 822 Old 09-11-2010, 08:36 AM
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Earlier in the thread I mentioned something about trying to find a local company to make up some flat packs that I could store at my shop. I've got a decent amount of space to use and could ship them out as needed. No one really said much about it though. And I don't want to step on the designers' toes and just do it myself.

A properly designed flat pack would be incredibly easy to assemble.
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post #289 of 822 Old 09-12-2010, 10:40 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post19180197

Maybe between the collective brains here we can build something that will be a keeper.

Mark

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post #290 of 822 Old 09-24-2010, 05:09 AM
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WOW....I remember posting on this thread a long time ago and glad to see it still going.

I would have tried to build these TH as designed originally but the driver costs $125 plus shipping here in OZ.

Now I wanted to build 4 because ......why not but I would only be placing them in 2 maybe 3 locations. That being said I am guessing that 4 of these is not going to get close to the levels of the THT....correct?

I did like the fact that these are small and can be placed anywhere. I do have room for the THT Lp and I already bought my supplies a year ago. BUT I have yet to build the sub yet. Life just got in the way.

I am hoping that I can save up the money and atleast try and build one to go with my subless SLA's I just finished. What final impedance are these when finished?
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post #291 of 822 Old 09-24-2010, 10:56 AM
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Oops....

That reminds me that I was supposed to post the impedance data....

I'll see if I can find it and try to get it posted.
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post #292 of 822 Old 09-24-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

WOW....I remember posting on this thread a long time ago and glad to see it still going.

I would have tried to build these TH as designed originally but the driver costs $125 plus shipping here in OZ.

Now I wanted to build 4 because ......why not but I would only be placing them in 2 maybe 3 locations. That being said I am guessing that 4 of these is not going to get close to the levels of the THT....correct?

I did like the fact that these are small and can be placed anywhere. I do have room for the THT Lp and I already bought my supplies a year ago. BUT I have yet to build the sub yet. Life just got in the way.

I am hoping that I can save up the money and atleast try and build one to go with my subless SLA's I just finished. What final impedance are these when finished?

Four will not quite equal a THT in raw output, the THT can take considerably more power than 4 of these can, so it has 28 dB of headroom above the 1W numbers where this cabinet only has about 19 dB. The THT is a larger cabinet at 18 cubic feet vs 12 cubic feet for four of these, and should deliver more SPL as a result.

Four of these will offer considerably more placement options than a THT though, and may afford a flatter in-room response as a result. Either option should be able to provide near reference-level bass at the couch above 25 Hz.
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post #293 of 822 Old 09-26-2010, 11:54 AM
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lilmike,

Forever ago you posted some HOLM distortion graphs here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post18393865

I thought I had PMed you about them, but I guess not. I was wondering what the setup was for these graphs.
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post #294 of 822 Old 09-26-2010, 12:29 PM
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Not optimal.... the setup was quasi-2pi, sort of pointing out of Todd's garage, cause we were working in the rain. There were boundaries too close and they are evident in the measurements. Background noise was a little too high as well. This was exactly the same setup and location as used with the REW measurements, they were done one after the other.

I measured with my usual laptop (Dell 600, Win XP), soundcard (E-mu 0202), meter and mic (RS 33-2050 modded, remote Panasonic WM-61 capsule) and amp (AudioSource Amp 100), and I measured at 2.83 volts of drive, at 1 meter distance.

I used swept-sine, as I was looking at the lower frequencies. I'm no pro with Holm, so I may have configured something wrong, but the results seemed to track the REW numbers.
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post #295 of 822 Old 09-26-2010, 12:46 PM
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I was interested because of the differences in the FR portions, between them and the straight FR graph above. The actual distortion part looks fine. It lines up quite well with the driver displacement as it should, especially that close.

The distortion is a little high, but this was off the cuff. The general shape is more interesting than the absolute numbers.
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post #296 of 822 Old 09-26-2010, 01:56 PM
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Thought I lost the data there for a few minutes.....

Here is the impedance plot for Todd's build:



For the range of 10 Hz to 130 Hz, the maximum was 48 ohms at 38.5 Hz, the minimum was 7.6 ohms at 10 Hz, and the average from 10-130 Hz was 14.4 ohms. I collected 96 data points through this range, a closer-order sampling through this range might change the numbers somewhat.
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post #297 of 822 Old 09-26-2010, 02:02 PM
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@soho54

Clarified the measurement explanation above - Todd's Anarchy TH was measured using exactly the same gear and in exactly the same position with Holm and REW, but I may not have matched drive levels between the two programs. REW measurements were done first, then Holm.

Regardless - the differences in shape of the plots is interesting.
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post #298 of 822 Old 09-26-2010, 02:07 PM
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I always find it amazing when Hornresp predicts the Impedance spikes so well. They are rarely at the same levels but are always at the same points in frequency.

Great testament to your fold and build Mike!

Mark
LL

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post #299 of 822 Old 09-29-2010, 07:59 AM
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Hi, finally I had the possibility to test them with a real set of sub amplifier.
I used 4 foster amplifier not modded and it sound fantastic, just hope when using them in a real room they sound so good.
I don't think I'll modify the plateamps becouse it is already rattling evrything in my box. Tks Mike!
LL
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post #300 of 822 Old 10-31-2010, 05:21 PM
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Could someone who has built this design please tell me what the cut-out is for the Exodus Anarchy 6.5"......my cabinet will be almost complete before i receive the driver......Thanks in advance.
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