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post #61 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i'm a little lost. what is the advantage of this design?

this design seems to do quite well for a low cost driver in a complex build of modest size.

is the target the skilled woodworker with no money (the amish, lol)?

i'm honestly not understanding what frontier this build is hitting on.


7" wide subwoofer with a 6.5" driver ($70) that does 25Hz to 100Hz flat? Isn't that pretty cool stuff?

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post #62 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 09:23 AM
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yeah, penn, i agree. i'm just thinking in terms of traditional size/cost/complexity/extension/maxspl etc.

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post #63 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

With most other horn designs at least if the drivers are placed side by side and the cabinet width is doubled the end result is the exact same as building 2 separate enclosures. I don't see any reason why 2 drivers couldn't be placed in a double wide enclosure.
That being said I still think it's better making individual enclosures for added placement flexibility.

The biggest issue with a double-width cabinet? For me personally, it is bracing the %&*(%^* thing when I build it, which would be required with a 14.5" baffle width. The single-width cabinet does not need bracing. Two single-width cabinets would be a faster build, and offer more placement options.
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post #64 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

yeah, penn, i agree. i'm just thinking in terms of traditional size/cost/complexity/extension/maxspl etc.

MaxSPL is my biggest question mark.

I have little SC-8s from Velodyne. I love them and I can throw 500Watts at them (they use the SC1250 amp). I know they have been measured though and I think even they have issues above 105dB. They do measure down to about 28Hz and play up to 100Hz.


They are 10x8x10 so that is good performance for their size and they cost around $90 each from ebay last year. Hard to beat in this category.

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post #65 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i'm a little lost. what is the advantage of this design?

this design seems to do quite well for a low cost driver in a complex build of modest size.

is the target the skilled woodworker with no money (the amish, lol)?

i'm honestly not understanding what frontier this build is hitting on.

I tried to clarify my ideas behind this design earlier. Over at AudioKarma, Zilch and the folks have some collaborative DIY designs, one of which is the Indignia. The Indignia is a very listenable speaker, yet is a very affordable project, and is simple enough that it is possible for someone new to DIY to build. Well, like most of the smaller speakers on the planet, the Indignias needed a sub to really sound their best. Hence, Insubnia was born. This tapped horn is an offshoot of the Insubnia project.

If I recall, the Indignia's are about 85-87 dB 1W 1m, so I don't need a crazy efficient sub to match well with them. They don't take a ton of power, so a 105 dB limit was fine. Since I could compromise SPL, I chose to go as low as I could and kept it as small as possible. The Exodus Anarchy is a great fit in this regard, as it has a relatively large XBL2 motor and a tiny little cone. The rest of the driver's parameters provide a good fit for use in a tapped horn too.

Now - is it practical? No, probably not. Since when is audio ever about practical? Sure, a cheap 12" in a 3 cubic foot ported box might provide a similar response for far less money in a simple box. That was not my intent.

This build is an easy way for anyone to play with a tapped horn. Sure, the driver costs a bit, but it is still a ~$200 build all in, with one of Jack's amps driving it. Is it cool? No doubt. Did it hang with the JTR's you see in that pic near the front of this thread until we got way past the recommended drive levels? It did just fine thank you, and better than I anticipated.

I initially designed this to see if I could. Once I mentioned it on several forums, people started asking about it, so I figured there was a little interest. I finished the design and developed a nice fold, Radman12 took the plunge and built one, then I measured the results, so here we are.

So - really - what is this for? It certainly will not work in a big home theater setting, at least not alone. Four would be a good start, and there still may be headroom issues. I really designed it for someone like me to use in a secondary system. I like my bass with movies and music on my primary system, and I miss the low end when I am listening to other systems that do not reach as low.
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post #66 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 10:08 AM
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This would be pretty cool to stack 4 or 8 deep in a car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasyachkin
Even i, the genius, only vaguely understand what i am saying here.
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post #67 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rone View Post

Found my first DIY project I'll be building two/possibly three, one for me and another/possibly two for my brother. I plan on using mine for a two channel system and my brother will use his for a HT setup. My brother has all in ceiling speakers and needs a sub that can hang with them. I think this will do nicely. I'll have to convince his wife to let us build a second sub for their HT eventually. Thanks Radman12 and Lilmike. This looks like an easy first build and I appreciated all your combined effort in putting this all together. Quick question, can this be built out of 1/2" MDF instead of the BB Ply?

Sorry I missed this.

Any good 1/2 inch thick material should work fine for this build. We optimized the cutsheet for 5'X5' baltic birch.

1/2 MDF should work fine. I used BB because I do not like breathing MDF dust. Arauco ply will be fine too.
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post #68 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Sorry I missed this.

Any good 1/2 inch thick material should work fine for this build. We optimized the cutsheet for 5'X5' baltic birch.

1/2 MDF should work fine. I used BB because I do not like breathing MDF dust. Arauco ply will be fine too.


Thanks man for the info. Great thread BTW w/ lots of detail.
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post #69 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radman12 View Post

Well here it is..Exodus Anarchy 6.5" 25hz tapped horn designed by yours truly, LilMike. Much appreciation to lilmike for sliding me the plans and letting me build it early before he measured it and made them available.

I Got the pleasure of hanging with lilmike and getting this sub measured, along with my 38hz tapped horn by volvotreter, and my THT by Bill Fitzmaurice and my def tech supercube1.

A simple/fun/cheap build with jawdropping output. I know absolutely nothing about measuring, until tonight learning a clinic from lilmike. I do trust my ears and running this one sub in my bedroom was telling me, this thing is very very very very nice, deep and clean. I cannot wait to have this coming week off and finish the other 3 for my bedroom.

As far as parts for the build, all that was needed was 1 sheet 5x5 1/2" baltic birch, terminal cup, some screws/glue, Exodus Anarchy driver, and used about a 4' x 2' 1/2" sheet of Quiet Liner Acoustical Cotton. I cut each piece of acoustic cotton in 10"-11" sections as you see in the pics.

I did have one goof. the driver didnt fit in the access panel thank god i didnt have the other side on yet. In my next three builds, I am not even going to put in an access panel. In my eyes, once the sub is in properly I dont need to accesss it anymore, plus fighitng to seal them properly, grrr

Mike will be chiming in shortly with all the measurements and stuff that he recorded, but for now here are the build pics and plans. This thing is worth every cent and more.


in place in the bedroom.

Thanks for taking the plunge Radman! Have you tried it with the mouth of the horn facing the corner?

I just finished ordering the woofer and since I have an extra sheet of ply laying around this is going to cost me next to nothing to try. I'm actually trying to sell my Tuba HT because it's just too dang big and I will never use it anywhere near it's potential with a toddler in the house.
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post #70 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 01:46 PM
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Nice read, and I'm thinking about building something my self and this looks like a good project. Coming from the commerical sub world, the DIY section is getting very interesting especially with little wonder. With the foot print being so small, I can probably make two of these. Thanks guys!

I don't remember reading this or I might have missed it but what amp does it uses?
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post #71 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 01:56 PM
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Amp?

Whatever you have/want to use, we did not specify anything, there is no way to tuck it into the enclosure.

~100 watts or so into 8 ohms is a good size, a little bigger won't hurt, but don't go too much smaller. Jack Hidley has some nice plate amps that are very affordable on his surplus sales website, though they will require a little modification to the onboard filters to perform their best with this enclosure and driver.
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post #72 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Amp?

Whatever you have/want to use, we did not specify anything, there is no way to tuck it into the enclosure.

~100 watts or so into 8 ohms is a good size, a little bigger won't hurt, but don't go too much smaller. Jack Hidley has some nice plate amps that are very affordable on his surplus sales website, though they will require a little modification to the onboard filters to perform their best with this enclosure and driver.


I use one of these (Emotiva model) to power my Tuba HT so I would imagine it would work well with this little guy as well.


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-812
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post #73 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Guys, I was just thinking that if there's enough interest in this design, or the larger 12" Shiva version...

OK, did I hear that right? The 12" Shiva version is finished? Who, where, when?!? And most importantly, how did I miss that?

If you couldn't tell, I have been waiting for the Shiva version...

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post #74 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 03:34 PM
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post #75 of 824 Old 03-29-2010, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i'm honestly not understanding what frontier this build is hitting on.

It's about DIY FUN!

The Karma Indignia Theater consists of these modules:

Karma Indignia (mains)
Mindignia (surrounds)
Incentria (center)
Insubnia (subwoofer)

Anybody can build 'em from standard components, mixing and matching as desired:

Computer speakers? Mindignias and Insubnia.
Dorm room? Indignias, Insubnia optional.
On the road? Mindignia pair.
Kitchen or Bedroom? Indignia pair.
Office system? Indignias and Insubnia.
Bedroom HT? Add Incentria.
Apartment HT? The works w/2 Insubnias.

.
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post #76 of 824 Old 03-30-2010, 06:17 AM
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Very cool! Thanks!

Chris

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post #77 of 824 Old 03-31-2010, 09:35 PM
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There's an interesting review of the Danley patent in the current issue of Voice Coil.

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post #78 of 824 Old 03-31-2010, 10:03 PM
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Thanks for the tip. For those that may be interested, you can read it here (for a limited time) : http://www.audioamateurinc.com/digital/vc/issue/410/

Interesting.
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post #79 of 824 Old 03-31-2010, 10:58 PM
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It reads like the first thread about TDs tapped horns on all the other sites.

It states a cursory description then it list a bunch of prior art, and basically says good luck with patenting that.

TD seems to be raked over the coals everywhere.

I want to be able to build a DIY variant if I choose to, but I'll be darned if I want to see a Peavey or some upscale hi-fi brand knock-off for sale.
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post #80 of 824 Old 03-31-2010, 11:31 PM
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What - no Behringer ETH-5000 for you? I hear it makes 110 dB at 1 Watt, and is flat to DC....no - wait, that was something else entirely....

I wish Tom the best with the pursuit of his patent, and definitely appreciate the information he has shared with the DIY community.

Thankfully, patents do not preclude DIY efforts.
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post #81 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 05:50 AM
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Not to throw a wrench in your thread but I'll be testing the Anarchy in a standard ported box today. Looking at what the woofer did in your design I would suggest that a 6th order ported alignment might be a better way to go.

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post #82 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 06:16 AM
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I am going to try one in a 6th order alignment using 8" passive radiators instead of ports
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post #83 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post

Not to throw a wrench in your thread but I'll be testing the Anarchy in a standard ported box today. Looking at what the woofer did in your design I would suggest that a 6th order ported alignment might be a better way to go.

No gears here for you to throw a wrench into. Design it, build it, test the results and show us all another way.

It is a great driver, I'm sure it will work in lots of different boxes.

I designed a tapped horn with it, you can do whatever you want with it. You like your cheerios, I like my wheaties. I'll bet neither one of us is a fan of kool-aid.

It's all good.
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post #84 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post

I am going to try one in a 6th order alignment using 8" passive radiators instead of ports

That sounds like an interesting project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

I'll bet neither one of us is a fan of kool-aid.

I'm glad I wasn't drinking any when I saw that line. My monitor would have gotten a bath
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post #85 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 10:18 AM
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Call me stupid, but how to get you get a driver that is a mid-woofer (Ex-anarchy)to behave like a subwoofer?
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post #86 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 10:22 AM
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This is a perfect sub to replace my crappy PC sub...... I wouldn't use it anywhere else....

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post #87 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeelarr View Post

Call me stupid, but how to get you get a driver that is a mid-woofer (Ex-anarchy)to behave like a subwoofer?

The Anarchy is not a mid-woofer.
For a 6.5" driver it has impressive X-max and its has the XBL2 tech stuff. (no?)

Although as you can see its performance is limited.

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post #88 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 11:47 AM
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My driver shipped yesterday, but I probably won't be able to start on this for a couple weeks, wife goes in for surgery next week.
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post #89 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post

I am going to try one in a 6th order alignment using 8" passive radiators instead of ports

Cool - I had the same idea. I've noodled a couple 6th-rder BP alignments for the W8-740c and W6-1139, and recently realized that using PR's would probably work well. I'd be interested to follow this - how you model it and how it pans out.
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post #90 of 824 Old 04-01-2010, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

The Anarchy is not a mid-woofer.
For a 6.5" driver it has impressive X-max and its has the XBL2 tech stuff. (no?)

Although as you can see its performance is limited.

I don't know how people define such things but it was originally designed for a finished product as a 2-way midwoofer (crossed over to a 1" tweeter) and for use in a small compact 1 cubic foot vented bass cabinets (in pairs).

The fact that it works in a tapped horn is purely luck. I didn't design it for that application although it works great with the consequent limitation in bandwidth. It will also work well in a bandpass enclosure as Rick pointed out. None of those are by design but a consequence of the parameters.

What is unique about the Anarchy the way I see it is its balance of bandwidth (goes deep) in small enclosures and it is still extremely easy to use all the way up to a traditional 2K-2.5K crossover. It also has the stroke to give great output for its form-factor. It has all the attendant trade-offs with making that design choice (bandwidth & box size) so it isn't exactly a high-efficiency driver. It is more efficient than the Extremis was but that isn't saying much. It is pretty comparable to your mainstream SS Revalator and Usher products in that regard.... and of course it cost a fraction of a SS product.

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