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post #121 of 825 Old 04-04-2010, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radman12 View Post

Grand total:
Wood = 4x30= 120
Anarchy = 2x49= 100
Anarchy = 2x70=140
PL/brads/screws/terminals = 0

all said and done = 360

Thanks for the add up here.

So many great options these days with people creating their own design, props to you and lilmike for conjuring this up and building it.
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post #122 of 825 Old 04-04-2010, 07:03 PM
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"Thanks for the add up here. So many great options these days with people creating their own design, props to you and lilmike for conjuring this up and building it."

+1

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post #123 of 825 Old 04-04-2010, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Thanks for the add up here. So many great options these days with people creating their own design, props to you and lilmike for conjuring this up and building it."

+1

Yea... these two guys did an awesome job with these and the Shiva-X2 build. The Shiva-X2 build obviously has more output and goes deeper but these "little" Anarchy enclosures make an attractive solution for multi-sub applications to smooth in-room response. I'll have to cook up a 4-pack discount along with an amplifier and signal processing solution. A pair of LM3886s bridged is more than sufficient to power one.

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post #124 of 825 Old 04-06-2010, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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LTD02,

regarding your spl question, I was playing with some rap music last night and was metering 124db at my listening position, layin on the bed, head on pillow. I think you could probably gain even more in the ideal setup, each one corner loaded, but here is what I have as far as final placement.

front left=corner loaded, front right = corner loaded, then put the other 2 under my bed with the mouths coupled together firing at wall behind headboard. I maybe losing some due to the box spring and very thick temporapedic mattress, but oh well.

I dont know if thats a fair test or what you were looking for but as far as what I know what to do, thats what I was getting, there maybe was a little more volume, but i was satisfied enough. the two under the bed, were issuing a radical deep tissue message.

if there is another way you want me to measure spl, I'd be more than happy to try.

I do know one thing, these things are mean!
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post #125 of 825 Old 04-06-2010, 02:25 PM
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i was just curious what ballpark they were in. that's amazing performance from 4 small subs. it's a nice form factor too. thanks for the update.

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post #126 of 825 Old 04-06-2010, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radman12 View Post

I was playing with some rap music last night and was metering 124db at my listening position

So my guess of 123dB (in another thread?) wasn't that far off .

I actually kinda really want to build some...If only I wasn't buying a house in a week. No money for toys in the next month or so .

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post #127 of 825 Old 04-06-2010, 07:21 PM
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What kind of room gain are you getting? Or did I miss that REW chart?

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #128 of 825 Old 04-06-2010, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

So my guess of 123dB (in another thread?) wasn't that far off .

I actually kinda really want to build some...If only I wasn't buying a house in a week. No money for toys in the next month or so .

Rap music has content above 30Hz, and strong above 40Hz for the most part. Right in the Insubnia's wheelhouse, and this number in no way surprises me with 4 of them in a BEDROOM.

radman, I really hope that 124dB was just for S&Gs....you don't actually listen that loud, do you?

Also, if you get time, some output vs THD numbers would be nice for one and all four....esp below 30Hz. Curous to see how much room gain enters the picture...

JSS
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post #129 of 825 Old 04-06-2010, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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no way max do I listen at those levels, it was just for the sake of answering ltd02 question, and a little curiosity too. I do like my stuff loud though when cleaning and getting ready in the mornings, wakes you up, but not that loud.

I would be more than tickled to do some output vs THD numbers, but I dont know how to do any of that cool stuff, I'm a rookie! i just got a uca202 so i will practice alittle bit.
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post #130 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 06:14 AM
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so here is a stupid question,

Can someone make an MTM or TM with the anarchy's and mount them on top of one of of these horns? You would have to cross(low pass) the horn over to prevent over excursion. I understand that you cross over with sub but a crossover is not a cutoff and more of a slope.

I am kinda doodling in my head rite now and just shooting from the hip


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post #131 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

so here is a stupid question,

Can someone make an MTM or TM with the anarchy's and mount them on top of one of of these horns? You would have to cross(low pass) the horn over to prevent over excursion. I understand that you cross over with sub but a crossover is not a cutoff and more of a slope.

I am kinda doodling in my head rite now and just shooting from the hip

You can do that if you have a crossover point / slope combination that minimizes the ripple in the upper end output of the sub.

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post #132 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post

You can do that if you have a crossover point / slope combination that minimizes the ripple in the upper end output of the sub.

It could.... but you would need to crossover low. The strength of a tapped horn (or any horn for that matter) isn't its bandwidth. In this case.... with the right active crossover I bet you could successfully blend it into the sub around 100Hz.

Each Anarchy horn should go to full output with around 100W and you can certainly get by with less power.

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post #133 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

so here is a stupid question,

Can someone make an MTM or TM with the anarchy's and mount them on top of one of of these horns? You would have to cross(low pass) the horn over to prevent over excursion. I understand that you cross over with sub but a crossover is not a cutoff and more of a slope.

I am kinda doodling in my head rite now and just shooting from the hip

Kooky, I was thinking the same thing. My idea was to build the overall enclosure taller but keeping the sub section the same while having the top section a sealed enclosure. Hope that makes sense I would still use the sub out on the avr for the lower "sub" section while using the front outs to the sealed "speaker" section. Sound do-able?

ETA: Actually what about using a sealed MTM Tritrix set-up in the top?

ETA: And using a Dayton plate amp in each top section to run the sub.
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post #134 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RobG5589 View Post

Kooky, I was thinking the same thing. My idea was to build the overall enclosure taller but keeping the sub section the same while having the top section a sealed enclosure. Hope that makes sense I would still use the sub out on the avr for the lower "sub" section while using the front outs to the sealed "speaker" section. Sound do-able?

ETA: Actually what about using a sealed MTM Tritrix set-up in the top?

ETA: And using a Dayton plate amp in each top section to run the sub.

The el-cheapo Dayton plate amp should work fine. I think it has a 30Hz HP subsonic built-in. If someone wants to send me one I'll measure the FR of the amp to confirm.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-802

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post #135 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Haskins View Post

It could.... but you would need to crossover low. The strength of a tapped horn (or any horn for that matter) isn't its bandwidth. In this case.... with the right active crossover I bet you could successfully blend it into the sub around 100Hz.

Each Anarchy horn should go to full output with around 100W and you can certainly get by with less power.

Would you have to worry about the fact that the sub driver is 10-15' in the horn? I thought I read something about getting things to match up when the sub actually has 15' extra distance on the main speakers. As in timing.

Then again, maybe I'm thinking of something else.


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Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

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post #136 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Would you have to worry about the fact that the sub driver is 10-15' in the horn? I thought I read something about getting things to match up when the sub actually has 15' extra distance on the main speakers. As in timing.

Then again, maybe I'm thinking of something else.

As long as your crossing it over down low... it isn't an issue for the same reason it isn't an issue when you are using them as subs. The wavelength is 14ft at 80Hz.

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post #137 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 05:40 PM
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Well - Kevin beat me to it.

Most HT receivers can set an appropriate delay if needed.

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post #138 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Haskins View Post

The el-cheapo Dayton plate amp should work fine. I think it has a 30Hz HP subsonic built-in. If someone wants to send me one I'll measure the FR of the amp to confirm.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-802

Radman12 is using the Dayton 240 W plate amp with no boost and the stock filter to power all four of his.

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post #139 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobG5589 View Post

Kooky, I was thinking the same thing. My idea was to build the overall enclosure taller but keeping the sub section the same while having the top section a sealed enclosure. Hope that makes sense I would still use the sub out on the avr for the lower "sub" section while using the front outs to the sealed "speaker" section. Sound do-able?

ETA: Actually what about using a sealed MTM Tritrix set-up in the top?

ETA: And using a Dayton plate amp in each top section to run the sub.

Probably better to do separate cabinets for the sub and main, it would be a far easier build, and you could also experiment with sub placement.

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post #140 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 06:47 PM
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Wow, that raises an interesting point...You could build these as full-range speakers, not just as a speaker slapped on top of a sub. I've seen a few arguments that there's almost as much LF content in the LCR channels as in the LFE channel in many sources. So even if it wasn't really your 'subwoofer' it would certainly add to the value of the system. And at the cost, very achievable .

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post #141 of 825 Old 04-08-2010, 08:54 PM
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If I were to build, it would be as a full range stereo set up.
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post #142 of 825 Old 04-09-2010, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

I've seen a few arguments that there's almost as much LF content in the LCR channels as in the LFE channel in many sources. So even if it wasn't really your 'subwoofer' it would certainly add to the value of the system. And at the cost, very achievable .


Starkiller,

You are correct, but below 80-100Hz in a small room, having individual bass sources at the 5.1 locations is counterprodutive, as far as freq response is concerned. This is one of the reasons for the implementation of bass management in smaller rooms. Above 100Hz, use absorption and reflection suppression to help with each individual speaker's freq response in room, and place multiple subs for good bass response to get an overall freq response curve better than what can be acheived with 5 full-range speakers (JBL BassQ sound field management excepted).

JSS

JSS
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post #143 of 825 Old 04-09-2010, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

Wow, that raises an interesting point...You could build these as full-range speakers, not just as a speaker slapped on top of a sub. I've seen a few arguments that there's almost as much LF content in the LCR channels as in the LFE channel in many sources. So even if it wasn't really your 'subwoofer' it would certainly add to the value of the system. And at the cost, very achievable .

THis is what I was considering, waveguid surrounds with a tapped horn bass driver. I just wish the tapped horn would play a little higher (say 300Hz).

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post #144 of 825 Old 04-09-2010, 07:13 AM
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THis is what I was considering, waveguid surrounds with a tapped horn bass driver. I just wish the tapped horn would play a little higher (say 300Hz).

I was thinking of doing a back loaded horn with the Anarchys for this reason. My main 7 channel speakers will need rebuilding sometime. Not sure I could make the idea work too well though. Had the idea for tapped horns on all channels as well, but Hoffman and his law keep intruding.


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post #145 of 825 Old 04-12-2010, 08:28 PM
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Okay, a few perhaps obvious build questions:
1) If they work better corner loaded does it make sense (aesthetically) to put the terminal cup on the same side as the horn opening?
2) Glue and nails? Just one or the other?
3) Is there a place to get some acoustic cotton cheap in small quantities or is there something cheaper and easier to find that is a close second? Looking around online it looks like you have to buy sizeable quantities at high cost and part of the appeal of this sub was that I hoped I could do it fairly cheaply.
4) Does anyone think there would be value in video taping me putting this together? I posted a video on youtube of me "fixing" my car a year ago and got a good response from people. If people thought this might be helpful I could video tape the process and post it (across many videos I am sure) on youtube. This doesn't look like splitting the atom so I don't want to waste my time if no one thinks it would be terribly helpful.
I received my anarchy the other day and should be receiving one of the foster plate amps in the next week or so. Hoping to start before the end of April but we will see. The wife said I have to build a Murphy bed in the guest bedroom first.
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post #146 of 825 Old 04-12-2010, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

I was thinking of doing a back loaded horn with the Anarchys for this reason. My main 7 channel speakers will need rebuilding sometime. Not sure I could make the idea work too well though. Had the idea for tapped horns on all channels as well, but Hoffman and his law keep intruding.


Check out the specs of the SDX 6.5 inch subwoofer over a CSS.

SDX 6.5


Maybe someone can tell us if this driver can be used instead of the Anarchy... since we are in Canada..

Mike


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post #147 of 825 Old 04-12-2010, 09:09 PM
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It'll work in a tapped horn. Not sure it will work in this particular one, but it's a good candidate for a TH design.


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post #148 of 825 Old 04-12-2010, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oblio9 View Post

Okay, a few perhaps obvious build questions:
1) If they work better corner loaded does it make sense (aesthetically) to put the terminal cup on the same side as the horn opening?
2) Glue and nails? Just one or the other?
3) Is there a place to get some acoustic cotton cheap in small quantities or is there something cheaper and easier to find that is a close second? Looking around online it looks like you have to buy sizeable quantities at high cost and part of the appeal of this sub was that I hoped I could do it fairly cheaply.
4) Does anyone think there would be value in video taping me putting this together? I posted a video on youtube of me "fixing" my car a year ago and got a good response from people. If people thought this might be helpful I could video tape the process and post it (across many videos I am sure) on youtube. This doesn't look like splitting the atom so I don't want to waste my time if no one thinks it would be terribly helpful.
I received my anarchy the other day and should be receiving one of the foster plate amps in the next week or so. Hoping to start before the end of April but we will see. The wife said I have to build a Murphy bed in the guest bedroom first.

A few answers

1 - Sure - whatever floats your boat.
2 - PL and 1-1/4" brad nails for me with 1/2" material
3 - I think you can skip the batting, it had minimal effects on the Shiva - I'll verify this shortly with one of my builds
4 - That would be cool. Honestly - as you said, it is not that complicated. If you can measure and cut things accurately, and assemble things where they are supposed to be, you should get a good result.

Murphy beds aren't subwoofers or speakers...

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post #149 of 825 Old 04-12-2010, 09:37 PM
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Murphy beds aren't subwoofers or speakers...

I explained that to the wife and, inexplicably, she wasn't moved by my arguments at all.

Thanks for your reply. I'll skip the batting.
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post #150 of 825 Old 04-12-2010, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanaris View Post

Check out the specs of the SDX 6.5 inch subwoofer over a CSS.

SDX 6.5


Maybe someone can tell us if this driver can be used instead of the Anarchy... since we are in Canada..

That driver is not the best fit in the Insubnia design, sorry. The low corner comes up 5 Hz or so and there is a lot of ripple in the passband. Fs is a little too low, Vas is a little too high, and there is a huge group delay spike at 108 Hz.

The Tang Band W6-1139SI is a pretty good fit, is that available?

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