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post #631 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 08:01 AM
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Again Corock, nice work.

Maybe this has been covered, but how many cubes is the space in which you're using it? For any application that thing would would be fine. But for music duties, those roll-off characteristics should be ideal. I'd love to read your extended listening impressions at this point.

Also, and anyone can weigh in on this, how much has someone successfully powered this driver with, in this small sealed, LT'd configuration? I've read the mfrs. application notes, etc., but there have been so few documented builds with this driver, that I'd like to know how much someone has thrown at this thing. The variables are many, however with music, I'd think you that one could drive this thing with extremely high levels of amplifier power between say 20 to 80.

Any thoughts?

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post #632 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corock View Post

I built this sub to be dedicated to music.

So, have you tried any good pipe organ discs with it?
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post #633 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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It's 7 cuft.

I'm not sure how much power it would handle, but I can tell you in my circumstances the ep4000 powers it without stressing. when I play music I run 4 Paradigm Studio 60 v5 in an area about 900 sqft with vaulted ceilings. I listen as loud as the Studio's can handle and I effortlessly blend the bass in. The Studio's aren't big speakers but this configuration has A LOT of bass output left in it.
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post #634 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

So, have you tried any good pipe organ discs with it?

Serious?
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post #635 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corock View Post

Serious?

I'm pretty sure he is. Some of the lowest frequencies are produced from pipe organs.


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post #636 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbldare View Post

I'm pretty sure he is. Some of the lowest frequencies are produced from pipe organs.


dbl

I guess that makes sense. I'll have to check it out. Where does one find pipe organ music? I can't say its a genre that I've sought out before. I'm guessing Amazon or a church are my best bets.
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post #637 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corock View Post

I guess that makes sense. I'll have to check it out. Where does one find pipe organ music? I can't say its a genre that I've sought out before. I'm guessing Amazon or a church are my best bets.

There's a couple long threads around on this subject. (check the sub forum) Multichannel SACDs are the most popular, but there's plenty of CDs around with LF goodness too. The better pipe organs should have 32' pipes with a 16Hz fundamental tone. The better recordings can reproduce that. The space it was recorded in will also be a factor, but since pipe organs don't move around much the organ and the space kind of go together. The very best organs are custom designed specifically for the space they are in. This concert hall is essentially just a big LF horn.





http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1115313
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post #638 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 11:33 AM
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Telarc's Richard Strauss: Also Sprach Zarathustra, has some nice LF content, I believe it's the 32hz pipe as well as perhaps the 16hz pipe.

Michael Murry's Telarc Organ spectacular is tremendous as well.

Chrisbee, a frequent Cult of the Infinitely Baffled contributer, enjoys large scale (is there any other kind?) Organ releases. He's got an IB subwoofer blog whereby he discusses many interesting items including organs.

I traveled to Chicago last weekend and attended a wedding in Rockefeller's Memorial Chapel. It had a phenomenal organ, in a phenomenal space.







The remarkable thing is that in attending, I had no idea where the service was, because the Bride and Groom provided motor-coach transport from our hotel, to the service, then on to the reception. So I did no homework on anything but the hotel. Well this magnificent church was jaw dropping. The sound of the organ is difficult to put into words.

Good luck Corock

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post #639 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 06:46 PM
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I agree with FOH, and would also recommend the telarc recording of 1812 overture as well as the deutsche grammaphone recording (great choir great canons).

Then there's the always great last movement of saint-saens' 3rd symphony. People laud the eschenbach recording and it is quite good , but the Charles Münch recording is good too.
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post #640 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbldare View Post

I'm pretty sure he is. Some of the lowest frequencies are produced from pipe organs.


dbl

When i first began my wall calculations, I was going to go with a single or dual 18's tuned to 7Hz to get the 64' stack. I think i have an old thread here about "Bottom C" when i thought that was 8Hz, but I think thats 16Hz. You have the largest high linear excursion driver available in a good sized sealed box. "optimum" for pipe organ music. However, I just found a church build for an organ using dual 21's in dual 20 cubic foot boxes tuned to 16Hz, what I would consider optimum for it, as theres only what... 3 organs with 64' stack, none or one which are operational?
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post #641 of 734 Old 11-21-2010, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There's a couple long threads around on this subject. (check the sub forum) Multichannel SACDs are the most popular, but there's plenty of CDs around with LF goodness too. The better pipe organs should have 32' pipes with a 16Hz fundamental tone. The better recordings can reproduce that. The space it was recorded in will also be a factor, but since pipe organs don't move around much the organ and the space kind of go together. The very best organs are custom designed specifically for the space they are in. This concert hall is essentially just a big LF horn.





http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1115313


I read and respond 1 post at a time
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post #642 of 734 Old 11-22-2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

When i first began my wall calculations, I was going to go with a single or dual 18's tuned to 7Hz to get the 64' stack. I think i have an old thread here about "Bottom C" when i thought that was 8Hz, but I think thats 16Hz. You have the largest high linear excursion driver available in a good sized sealed box. "optimum" for pipe organ music. However, I just found a church build for an organ using dual 21's in dual 20 cubic foot boxes tuned to 16Hz, what I would consider optimum for it, as theres only what... 3 organs with 64' stack, none or one which are operational?

there are in fact organs with working 64 foot stops. i believe the boardwalk organ is back to being functional at least on the side with the 64 foot stops and the 100" pressure (130dB at 1M)

The sydney town hall organ is fully functional and active and it has a 64 foot stop as well..

There are a few organs that have pseudo 64 foot stops. though I believe they use the hall to get that extra length (i believe there is a few 48 footers but i could be wrong).

The wannamaker is the currently largest active organ (most pipes) and there are plenty of recordings of it. (it has a few 32' stops).

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post #643 of 734 Old 11-22-2010, 03:22 PM
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130dB at 1 m @ 8Hz, isn't that asking for structural damage?
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post #644 of 734 Old 11-22-2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Vai_rules View Post

there are in fact organs with working 64 foot stops. i believe the boardwalk organ is back to being functional at least on the side with the 64 foot stops and the 100" pressure (130dB at 1M)

It was, but as of at least August it's completely down pending a total Swell division rebuild. When I was there they had the whole thing removed - you could look up four whole storeys and see the top of the chamber

So, they wouldn't fire the old girl up for us. Can't say I blame them... the instrument needs tons of work and they had to start somewhere. The 64 in that organ isn't on 100 inches (it's on 25" I think) - it's actually not very loud when one considers the rest of the organ and all the 32' stops they crammed in there.

Beside Boardwalk Hall and the Sydney town hall, there are no other full length 64's. All other such stops use resultants (32' pipes played in fifths) or digital stops.
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post #645 of 734 Old 11-22-2010, 05:27 PM
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It was, but as of at least August it's completely down pending a total Swell division rebuild. When I was there they had the whole thing removed - you could look up four whole storeys and see the top of the chamber

So, they wouldn't fire the old girl up for us. Can't say I blame them... the instrument needs tons of work and they had to start somewhere. The 64 in that organ isn't on 100 inches (it's on 25" I think) - it's actually not very loud when one considers the rest of the organ and all the 32' stops they crammed in there.

Beside Boardwalk Hall and the Sydney town hall, there are no other full length 64's. All other such stops use resultants (32' pipes played in fifths) or digital stops.

Yeah the 64 stop isnt on the 100" i cant remember which one it is though.. but the spec i do remember is that its about 130dB at 1M

That is a piece of art that needs to be fully restored to its original glory!

I would like to see some of these big organs in person. im sure recordings just can't do them justice.

Sorry for the thread hijack btw.


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post #646 of 734 Old 11-22-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Vai_rules View Post

Yeah the 64 stop isnt on the 100" i cant remember which one it is though.. but the spec i do remember is that its about 130dB at 1M

That would be this guy right here, the Grand Ophicleide:



I still can't believe they let me hold a pipe from that stop. I kept saying to myself, "don'tdropitdon'tdropitdon'tdropitdon'tdropit." It's well worth the trip to go visit it though. Proceeds from the tours go right into the kitty for restoration... I was happy to kick in a little extra.

I have lots more pics here: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...rdwalk%20Hall/

We should probably get back on topic now...
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post #647 of 734 Old 11-22-2010, 10:18 PM
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Wow- I just stayed up till 1:18 am because I stumbled onto this... this makes me want to try building speakers just because yours came out so well. That is artwork. Awesome.
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post #648 of 734 Old 11-22-2010, 11:17 PM
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Sometimes going OT and resurrecting a dead thread has its advantages. You may never have seen it
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post #649 of 734 Old 11-23-2010, 09:27 AM
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is there an advantage to building a box in this manner than just doing 4 sides and some bracing?

logic would suggest that building it in this manner would be more riggid, however, i am just now starting to venture into the DIY world and trying to learn what i can before i consider my first build.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #650 of 734 Old 11-23-2010, 10:00 AM
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I think the main reason was aesthetics, making it curved. pretty cool, but wow what dedication it took.
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post #651 of 734 Old 11-23-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

I think the main reason was aesthetics, making it curved. pretty cool, but wow what dedication it took.

Curved has big advantages for reducing a number of typical cabinet resonances. It also tends to reduce the need for bracing. Curves and angles have been used in cabinet designs for many years. It works.
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post #652 of 734 Old 11-23-2010, 11:50 AM
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Curved has big advantages for reducing a number of typical cabinet resonances. It also tends to reduce the need for bracing. Curves and angles have been used in cabinet designs for many years. It works.

Makes sense didnt even think about it. instead of flat panels, varying curves. Im glad I dont have an audiophile ear. I have THEE worst case scenario for all kinds of resonance. All I hear is my major flex from 27-37Hz. I cant tell when I pass Xmax either. I can tell when I clip though
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post #653 of 734 Old 11-23-2010, 12:26 PM
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The bracing is what I was interested in as I know that any curving or angles inside the box that are not parallel will help with resonances.

It almost looks easier to build someting this way if you had the time and dedication to do it.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #654 of 734 Old 11-23-2010, 12:47 PM
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It almost looks easier to build someting this way if you had the time and dedication to do it.

Don't kid yourself - building a curved piece like this is much harder than a square box. Even if you had the sides CNC-ed, getting the pieces together straight and even is a major piece of work. Doing it with something this size shows a significant amount of dedication and skill.
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post #655 of 734 Old 11-23-2010, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Curved has big advantages for reducing a number of typical cabinet resonances. It also tends to reduce the need for bracing. Curves and angles have been used in cabinet designs for many years. It works.

Yes, but overkill for subs.

Simple crossbracing is all it takes to get the panel resonance well above the operating freq range

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post #656 of 734 Old 12-07-2010, 03:25 PM
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Awsome work corock. I keep coming back to re-read!
Can I ask specifically what resin you used to seal and give that sweet colour???
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post #657 of 734 Old 12-07-2010, 05:17 PM
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hey corock, can you throw up another you tube vid? ive read this thread like four times....just an amazing and clean build.

Awesome.
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post #658 of 734 Old 12-07-2010, 05:57 PM
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hey corock, can you throw up another you tube vid? ive read this thread like four times....just an amazing and clean build.

Awesome.

Im not seeing a youtube link
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post #659 of 734 Old 12-08-2010, 08:55 AM
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Im not seeing a youtube link

he out one up a few months back during the build...pretty sweet

youtube.com/watch?v=KS-Y8_UIgu8

just a tease...lol
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post #660 of 734 Old 12-10-2010, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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the sub wasn't hooked up when I filmed this. It was the only thing in the living room as the ceiling was painted. I will do an excursion video later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd9i3I1NnEs&hd=1
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