Official Rythmik Audio DIY Subwoofer Kit thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 341 Old 01-12-2012, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Durzil View Post


So I made a drawing of my Living Room/kitchen/dining area. It's one large room with vaulted ceilings. I estimate the size to be 640sqft with vaulted ceilings making it hard to estimate the total volume. I didn't know when making it they would water mark it. There is an 11' false wall separating the living room from the kitchen where my couch is located. I put in the couch with an oval as the primary listening positions. The square with rounded edges is my proposed sub location. The TV and fronts are across from the couch in the sketch as well (circles and rectangle). The living room area is 18x13. The 3ft section on the left of the TV is a doorway. Hopefully this will help get some suggestions.


So I understand the best way to figure out sub placement is trial and error I was just hoping to get some feedback if it was a poor idea in general to have it located like shown in the picture above, I only have 2 places I can put the sub, either where I showed above behind the couch corner or to the right of my right front speaker, I'd prefer to put it behind the couch as it would please the wife greatly. I don't want to go through the trouble of building the enclosure like an end table if its a poor idea to start with to place it there tho. As far as distance goes its really pretty close to the same distance to my seat from both positions, about 8 feet.

My main questions are:

Would a downward firing sub be okay or is a front firing sub more beneficial?
Would I see a large improvement in how low the sub can go moving to the 15 over the 12? Both would be a sealed box design.
Is there any placement recommendation based on the floor design?

Thanks for any help it is much appreciated.
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post #122 of 341 Old 01-13-2012, 05:37 AM
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If you have cement floors then for waf down firing is better. As far as sound goes I don't think you can tell the difference. Putting the sub behind the sub couch for movies is nice because you can feel the bass well. But for music when you are up and moving around the room it sounds better on the front wall with the mains. I tried putting mine on the end of the couch and you could tell where the base was coming from. Just my 2c.
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post #123 of 341 Old 01-13-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryU View Post

If you have cement floors then for waf down firing is better.

This isn't very clear. I have carpeted floors. I think you where saying with cement floors forward firing is better since for waf is the first part?
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post #124 of 341 Old 01-13-2012, 10:55 AM
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If you have carpet over cement floors then you can use a down fireing sub. You do not want to use down fireing if you have wooden floors as in a subfloor over a basement. And for the waf most women don't want to see the speaker were down fireing the speaker is hidden from sight.
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post #125 of 341 Old 01-13-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LarryU View Post

If you have carpet over cement floors then you can use a down fireing sub. You do not want to use down fireing if you have wooden floors as in a subfloor over a basement. And for the waf most women don't want to see the speaker were down fireing the speaker is hidden from sight.

When I read that it didn't cross my mind you where referring to wife acceptance factor. I have carpet over a wood subfloor so it sounds like I need forward firing thanks for the help. I have 2 little ones so downward firing was preferred. Will the carpet over wood subfloor greatly diminish the subs effectiveness?
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post #126 of 341 Old 01-13-2012, 11:45 AM
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I think it would. You may want to Pm Brian and ask him to be sure. I've been using a down fireing but only on a cement slab foundation.
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post #127 of 341 Old 01-13-2012, 12:14 PM
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At least in my home, carpet over wood floor above the basement, my 15" down-firing sub sounds fantastic.

Perhaps YMMV?

Best Regards
KvE

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post #128 of 341 Old 01-13-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durzil View Post

When I read that it didn't cross my mind you where referring to wife acceptance factor. I have carpet over a wood subfloor so it sounds like I need forward firing thanks for the help. I have 2 little ones so downward firing was preferred. Will the carpet over wood subfloor greatly diminish the subs effectiveness?

The carpet will not adversely affect the output of a down-firing sub whether carpet is on a wooden floor or on concrete. The carpet won't absorb the sound waves the same as higher frequencies would be deadened by carpet. Just be sure that any custom enclosure you buy/make will have at least 2" clearance from the bottom baffle to the top of your flooring material.

With 2 little ones, downfiring is your best solution to protect the driver from curious hands and the inevitable thrown objects. Sound quality will not suffer.
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post #129 of 341 Old 01-13-2012, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveK2 View Post


The carpet will not adversely affect the output of a down-firing sub whether carpet is on a wooden floor or on concrete. The carpet won't absorb the sound waves the same as higher frequencies would be deadened by carpet. Just be sure that any custom enclosure you buy/make will have at least 2" clearance from the bottom baffle to the top of your flooring material.

With 2 little ones, downfiring is your best solution to protect the driver from curious hands and the inevitable thrown objects. Sound quality will not suffer.

Thanks for this I'm really thinking it's necessary I have 2 German Shepherds as well as 2 kids so it's probably the only way it would survive.

Any input on placement? 12 vs 15?
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post #130 of 341 Old 01-14-2012, 06:14 AM
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I see that SteveK2 said carpet on wood will not affect output it's not the carpet it's the wood floor if you will look on Rythmik's web site it says the D15SE is for cement floors. It is Rythmik's only down firing sub and it says for cement floors on the products page. That is the reason I said to check with Brian. I just finished my 4cu ft box and it's a lot of work you need to be sure before you start. And to protect the driver from kids and dogs you can use a grill cover for the speaker. As far as the size I went for the 15 because the DS1501ci is only $20 more than the DS1200 and the DS1505 which is the one Brian recommends because it's a better driver is only $40 more. Although if box size is an issue then you may want the 12. Believe me a 4cu ft box is a lot bigger than I thought it would be it dwarfs my Klipsch Sub12 that it's replacing. It does say you can get by with a smaller box but output will suffer slightly.
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post #131 of 341 Old 01-14-2012, 07:22 AM
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Durzil, I would definitely look at having two subs in that space, ideally 15" for greater air displacement.

As LarryU mentioned you could add a metal grill to really protect those drivers.
Here is an example, near the end of the post.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-two-them.html

Similiar to LarryU, I upgraded from a Klipsch Sub-12 to my DS1505 sealed down-firing and absolutely love it; and yes it is a bit of behemoth but after while it blends in.

You may not have to go to the extreme of designing a box like a table but it certainly would increase spousal approval and harmony. Definitely get her involved in the final external appearance.

When I build another enclosure I will go the routes of either a wood veneer or painting it. My vinyl veneer, black matte, works quite well but I haven't sealed the edges due to not knowing how exactly at the time or having a little blowtorch. Glue worked more or less.

Hopefully you have access to a table saw, makes a world of difference.

Good Luck and have fun.
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post #132 of 341 Old 01-16-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryU View Post

I see that SteveK2 said carpet on wood will not affect output it's not the carpet it's the wood floor if you will look on Rythmik's web site it says the D15SE is for cement floors. It is Rythmik's only down firing sub and it says for cement floors on the products page. That is the reason I said to check with Brian. ....

The OP asked:
"Will the carpet over wood subfloor greatly diminish the subs effectiveness?".
Clearly, the OP has a carpeted wood subfloor and wanted to know if carpet would greatly diminish the sub's effectiveness. Hence my response (the carpet won't diminish the sub's effectiveness).

The D15SE might be Rythmik's only pre-built product offered in a down-firing config, but please take note that the custom/diy plans on the site are all down-firing configs. I doubt Brian only intended diy/custom down-firing configs to be used only on concrete floors (that would limit his market) -- but only Brian can answer that for sure.
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post #133 of 341 Old 01-17-2012, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durzil View Post

Thanks for this I'm really thinking it's necessary I have 2 German Shepherds as well as 2 kids so it's probably the only way it would survive.

Any input on placement? 12 vs 15?

You haven't provided any hint on what your vaulted ceilings look like, but if you had a "standard" 8' ceiling, then you would have almost 5200 cubic feet of room to fill with bass. A typical vaulted ceiling could increase that to almost 7500 cu ft.

A single 12" sub is not going to cut it, that's a lot of volume to pressurize. You will need at least a 15" (2 15" subs would be much better). Placing it next to your couch will give you the benefit of being closer to your ears, at the cost of being roughly in the center of your entire room volume (which may or may not be beneficial depending on your room acoustics). That may be a good location to start with.

BTW, I currently have a 15" down-firing sub (a 25 year old Velodyne, servo) in a 2800 cu ft room with a big (7' x 5') opening to the main hallway which leads to the family room & kitchen (about a 5500+ cu ft effective volume). I'm planning on replacing it with a Rythmik DD15SE in the near future.

I have carpeted wood floors, and it works fine as long as I don't want to play it at extremely loud levels. I get added bass boost because I have it placed in a corner of the room.

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post #134 of 341 Old 01-17-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

You haven't provided any hint on what your vaulted ceilings look like, but if you had a "standard" 8' ceiling, then you would have almost 5200 cubic feet of room to fill with bass. A typical vaulted ceiling could increase that to almost 7500 cu ft.

A single 12" sub is not going to cut it, that's a lot of volume to pressurize. You will need at least a 15" (2 15" subs would be much better). Placing it next to your couch will give you the benefit of being closer to your ears, at the cost of being roughly in the center of your entire room volume (which may or may not be beneficial depending on your room acoustics). That may be a good location to start with.

BTW, I currently have a 15" down-firing sub (a 25 year old Velodyne, servo) in a 2800 cu ft room with a big (7' x 5') opening to the main hallway which leads to the family room & kitchen (about a 5500+ cu ft effective volume). I'm planning on replacing it with a Rythmik DD15SE in the near future.

I have carpeted wood floors, and it works fine as long as I don't want to play it at extremely loud levels. I get added bass boost because I have it placed in a corner of the room.

I have 8ft walls plus the entire area is vaulted above that matching my roof I didn't know how to figure with valued so I didn't thank you for that. I've definitely settled on a 15 and understand that 2 would be preferable. I'd like to go that route in the future but for the time being only 1 sub will be possible. Thanks for the help guys now I have to figure which 15 and get a box design mapped out. I originally like the thought of a sand box but am not sure due to shear weight. Anyone have any suggestions/opinions regarding standard vs sand box?
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post #135 of 341 Old 01-18-2012, 03:55 AM
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I think the sand box is really only feasible for a 12 inch because of as you said the weight of it. I do like the idea of it and I’m sure it sounds great. I would guess that it would weight around 140+ lb for a 4 cu ft box.
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post #136 of 341 Old 01-20-2012, 06:41 AM
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My Ds1505 will be here Monday. I can't wait to finish it the box is all ready minus the parts from Rythmik here is a picture of it so far. The first one is next to my old Klipsch Sub12 the second is in the garage.

Attachment 234745
LL
LL
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post #137 of 341 Old 01-25-2012, 02:07 PM
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Quick question. Can I built a Rs1200 sealed kit except make it front firing with the same recommended box dimensions? (I assume I'd have to tweak the bracing a bit).
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post #138 of 341 Old 01-26-2012, 07:06 AM
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You can use it for front firing. You can even alter the demintions,you just need to maintain the internal volume. Home theater shack has a volume calculator that you can play with different dimensions just kept the total volume the same or close.
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post #139 of 341 Old 02-05-2012, 05:06 AM
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I am amazing...
website suggestion:3 cu ft sealed
but the enclosure dimensions in website ds1500_diy_plan is 18''*22.5"*26.5'',so it's 10732.5 cu in or 6.21 cu ft....double of the 3 cu ft?
So,3 cu ft means...at least 3 cu ft??? but no max solid limit?
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post #140 of 341 Old 02-05-2012, 05:16 AM
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James,

The dims on the Rythmik DIY plans are external measurements. They call for use of 3/4" material with a double thickness on the front face. Also, this is a down fire design and sits a couple of inches off the floor. Take all that into consideration and the internal volume is close to 4 cu feet which is closer to optimal for that driver and amp per Brian at Rythmik.

Brad
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post #141 of 341 Old 02-05-2012, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesSailor View Post

James,

The dims on the Rythmik DIY plans are external measurements. They call for use of 3/4" material with a double thickness on the front face. Also, this is a down fire design and sits a couple of inches off the floor. Take all that into consideration and the internal volume is close to 4 cu feet which is closer to optimal for that driver and amp per Brian at Rythmik.

Brad

Ya,i calculated again,may be 3.6 cu ft
(18-0.75*2)*(9+9)*(22.5-0.75*2) and subtract some remain space...closed to 3 cu ft.
And,why complete subwoofer is front fire,and the PDF is down fire?follow the PDF and make it front fire is OK?
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post #142 of 341 Old 02-05-2012, 10:02 AM
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James,

Yes, you can follow the PDF for 'general' instructions. You'll have to change the configuration of the internal bracing so that the cut out for the driver is moved to face forward instead of down. The legs are optional as well. My DIY project sits directly on a carpeted cement slab and sound fantastic. I calculate ~4.0 cf once you subtract the wall thickness, legs, and space consumed by the electronics.

Brad
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post #143 of 341 Old 02-07-2012, 06:49 AM
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Here is a link to the plans I used for my front firing rythmik. I did alter the dimensions slightly and I added feet just because I thought it looked better. The picture before the driver was installed is a few post up. http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-included.html
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post #144 of 341 Old 02-08-2012, 02:14 AM
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It's very sad and slack that my dual Rythmik 12" subs never got a real box! They have lived in prototype 70L boxes since 2006. Shameful I know. Finally I'm putting them in a real box, a dual opposed tapped horn under the floor!



The one on the left is lilmike's F20 and I'm calling mine T20!
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post #145 of 341 Old 02-08-2012, 06:57 AM
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Paulspencer,
Which design are you going to build? One looks like it’s sealed the other looks like it’s open will you need to modified the amp for this or will it work like it is? I just built the DS1505 in 4cuft sealed box and I find it a little lacking in my 3810cuft open room. I was thinking of building a vented box but I’m not sure it will work because I bought the sealed amp. I’ve read about the horns but never heard one, let us know how it turns out.
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post #146 of 341 Old 02-08-2012, 09:24 AM
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Larry,

Contact Brian at Rythmik if you decide to go to a vented enclosure. I'm pretty sure the amps can be modified to allow this change.

Brad
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post #147 of 341 Old 02-08-2012, 10:15 AM
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Thanks Brad I caught Brian over on the Official Rythmik site and he posted what was involved. I’m not sure 5dB are worth the work of building a new box and modifying the amp. This is his response:
You need to do the following:
1) new servo board,
2) remove and solder one SMD on the preamp board
3) remove two back solder resistors from preamp board.
4) solder two jumpers on the preamp board.

This is for converting DS1505. Each driver is a bit different. But it is doable.
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post #148 of 341 Old 02-08-2012, 10:04 PM
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I'm doing T20 which is on the right. I've used the Rythmik kit in open baffle also and it worked fine. I'm not sure if going from sealed to TH means anything other than EQ not being right. That's no problem.

Larry, I probably wouldn't bother in that case. If you find you need more LF output then just add another one!
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post #149 of 341 Old 02-10-2012, 07:56 AM
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Thanks Paul, I would love to have a second sub, my theater is my living room so space becomes a problem and money. For the size of my room I should have gotten the DS1510 but money influenced my decision. It’s only on big boom in movies that it lacks a little, for music it’s great. I’m not sure why with my old sub the output was fine it was SQ I was trying to improve not volume. I was trying to sell my old Klipsch Sub12 and haven’t had any takers so I added it on a side wall and it added 3dB. It doesn’t play as low but I was surprised it integrated pretty well I had to do minimal EQ’ing. I enjoyed reading your “Bass integration guide” I look forward to reading the 3rd part when do you think it will be up?
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post #150 of 341 Old 02-11-2012, 01:08 AM
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It's due out in the March issue so I have to get cracking!
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