Dual SSD18 build, massive bass and exceptional sound quality. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 05-12-2010, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, many of you have followed my original build up of my first test enclosure, and after playing around with it, decided that a down firing design was out, since my floor flexed almost a half an inch from the sub, so my next design here has been refined towards my tastes a bit better.

I originally had an 8.3 cubic foot down firing slot loaded box tuned to 20 hertz. I just wasn't using anything that low, so I re tuned the first design to 28 hertz, and liked it so much, I got a second driver, and built this enclosure.

It is a separate chamber dual driver box, at 6.7 cubes per driver, each with a 4"x12"x22" port tuned to 26 hertz. It is running 1000 watts RMS to the pair, and hits so hard at 18 hertz it flexes my windows about a half an inch. I am almost scared to turn it up all the way because it feels like it is going to cause some serious damage to my house or me. I tuned it fairly low, for sound quality, as two 18" drivers are SPL monsters anyway.

They definitely need more power, and I am looking at getting a new amp to power them soon.

The original box has been sold to friend for his Atomic APX18. A 30kw burp monster!

On to the pictures!!!


Sketchup model of the new box design.



On to the build pics....




























Just thought everyone here would get a kick out of it. Enjoy! Bash it, rate it, comment, let me know what you think.

Sam

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post #2 of 37 Old 05-13-2010, 02:40 AM
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Looking good. No braces for the box? I would add a couple braces for it. Enjoy the bass.

Al,


"When the opponent expand, I contract,
When he contracts, I expand,
And when there is an opportunity,
I do not hit--it hits all by itself."
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post #3 of 37 Old 05-16-2010, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh, I certainly do enjoy it, though these subs are just laughing at 1000 rms watts, so I have ordered a 2500 watt rms amp to power them. Don't know why, since theres no way in hell I can use all of that power without blowing my house down, haha! I already spent so much on the subs, I figured I might as well go buy a good amp to power them as well.

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post #4 of 37 Old 05-16-2010, 01:21 AM
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Perhaps I am doing something wrong but I have just modelled a single sub of yours in a 6.7 cu ft box with the 22 x 12 x 4" port and the tune is coming out at 42hz and not 26hz. For a 26hz tune you would need a 44" port.

I agree with more bracing.

Do you have any graphs.

cheers


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post #5 of 37 Old 05-16-2010, 01:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha, yes, looks like you entered a 22" x 4" port with a length of 12"(comes to ~43 hertz, and with a length of ~45", comes to 26 hertz). the ports I have are 12" x 4" with a length of 22". Had me wondering, how did he get that kind of tune??

As for the bracing, I would like to add some, as the box tends to walk itself out of my closet when I turn it up, trying to tell me it needs more bracing... But then again it is 2 18" drivers and I'm guessing it is going to be near impossible to kill the box resonances completely without going to thicker, better wood, and bracing the living shite out of it.

What are some good ways to do that without having to tear the entire box apart? I need to pull the speakers to install my terminal cups anyway... might as well!

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post #6 of 37 Old 05-16-2010, 01:59 AM
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Good spot, its early and I am going through the middle of a hangover.

Do you find alot of difference in tuning slightly higher. I am currently tuned to 13.5 hz with two 11 cu ft FI Q18 subs and I am thinking of doing a 25 to 30 cu ft dual ported and have wondered about tuning to say 18hz but don't want to loose too much off the bottom end.

Regards adding some more bracing, its a bit difficult but I guess you could take off the bottom and slide in the bracing and glue and screw. Adding more than you need bracing doesn't take much out of the internal volume. I crossed slotted my bracing on my subs with one full vertical and two horizontal braces. With the slot port I have its solid as a rock and nothing moves. The only thing I wished I added was a small piece of wood half way down the port.

cheers

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post #7 of 37 Old 05-16-2010, 02:54 AM - Thread Starter
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No, I really don't think I lose much by tuning it higher, as I said in my first post, this setup will flex my windows, walls and floors like crazy around 15 to 18 hertz, the windows flex almost half an inch and it is putting out enough SPL to make your ears hurt if you leave it on for more than a few minutes. But I am only running about half power these subs should take all day long.

Man, I'd be afraid to stand in a smaller room with 2 Q18's at tuning frequency with that much enclosure, it would be just wicked! looking at the model in winisd, shows an 8 db increase at 18 hertz over what I have now. And my design isn't a joke at 18 hertz either. Room gains will affect that greatly, though, as my room is much smaller than yours.

Looking at your current design, I'd say go for it, your not gonna miss the super low tuning, unless you watch a lot of movies with sub-15 hertz content. I was running 20 hertz, and since I went up to 26, I don't notice a big difference in the lower stuff, but music with a lot of 25-40 hertz content gets a lot fuller and louder. The airspace difference plays into that a lot though.

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post #8 of 37 Old 05-16-2010, 03:18 AM
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My room is 17 x 17 and the two subs do sound pretty awesome. One of the reasons for tuning so low was so's I didn't need a hpf. The main issue with the old Q's is that they really need a 30 cu ft box just for one sub to get the perfect alignement but who's got 60 cu ft space in their rooms.

The Q's do model better in a higher tune.

This is what I am looking to build. Current dimensions for this are 84" wide by 32" high by 22" deep. But I may make it 94" wide. I am looking to get a projector with a 100" screen hence doing this to go under it.

cheers

Graham
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post #9 of 37 Old 05-17-2010, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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that looks like an great model to me, if i had the room i would definitely have gone with at least 10 cubes per driver for my build, but i am in a 12x14 room so that's pretty much out of the question. such is life!

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post #10 of 37 Old 05-17-2010, 08:10 AM
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Ive just gotta build the dam thing. That will be the fun part.

cheers

Graham
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post #11 of 37 Old 05-17-2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_carter View Post

But then again it is 2 18" drivers and I'm guessing it is going to be near impossible to kill the box resonances completely without going to thicker, better wood, and bracing the living shite out of it.

Put the drivers on opposite sides of the box (oppose firing). No vibrations, no walking. Forces get cancelled out.

YID DIY
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post #12 of 37 Old 05-19-2010, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I would if I had the right amount of space and placement for it. But I don't right now, so I have to sacrifice a few things here and there. I am more than happy with the results so far, and with my new 2500 watt amp, these things get wicked loud- can't see straight, can't breathe, and your hair flutters to the bass. Straight stupid amounts of bass. I have already broken a lot of stuff around my house from the flexing of my walls and shelves and such. Once this pair goes in my truck I am definitely going to go with single sub build for my house with a 15 cube box and around 20 hertz tune. I might even go for a passive radiator build next, I'm not sure yet....

Here are some youtube videos for ya...

I have officially lost my mind!

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post #13 of 37 Old 09-23-2010, 05:38 PM
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which drivers (and options) did you go with?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #14 of 37 Old 09-24-2010, 09:34 AM
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besides the internal bracing I would recommend a couple extra sheets of mdf and double all those exterior panels, roll on a good adhesive and screw them down,,

Derry

Common sense is not common,,

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post #15 of 37 Old 10-02-2010, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been so busy that I haven't had time to work on the box lately, but I would like to double the panels eventually, so far I haven't even been able to enjoy these speakers much, as my neighbors pitch a fit if the subs are even turned a 1/3rd of the way up. I hate living in the city! I had a guy from 3 blocks away say that I was rattling his windows a while back, so I try to keep it on the down low these days. I feel like I'm letting my speakers go to waste...

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post #16 of 37 Old 11-26-2010, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Just an update, I have since sound deadened the interior panels of my entire enclosure and rewired my amp for 3600 watts RMS, and it is a thing of beauty. These damn subs are still begging for more power!!! I still want to brace the hell out of the box, I just haven't had time yet.

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post #17 of 37 Old 11-26-2010, 02:04 AM
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My Q18's are in 15 cu ft boxes and on the high tune I am running which is 21.5hz its great. Great idea mate.

cheers

Graham
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post #18 of 37 Old 11-30-2010, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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So you are liking your new enclosures then? how do they sound compared to the old ones?

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post #19 of 37 Old 12-07-2010, 09:07 PM
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it blows my mind that you can play so well below tuning, I bet just 1 of your subs blows all four of mine out of the water from 20Hz up
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post #20 of 37 Old 12-07-2010, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I am plesantly surprised with the subsonic output these drivers have to offer as well, but I really wish I could scrap this box, and go with a bigger one to bring my response peak down from 45 hertz to the low 30's to mid 20's. Unfortunately, I just can't spare the space. I have already lost most of my closet as it is. Guess the 22's are out, at least for my room. My end goal is to wall my bronco off behind the back seat and run two 22's and chamber in some small sealed boxes to run two 12" midbass drivers with them, on a 5 channel SS Rubicon that matches my class D 2500. I am hoping to trade an RF Power 1500bd I have for one tomorrow.

Here is a repost of my latest video, for those of you who haven't seen it. I noticed the light I was using was bouncing all around the floor when I was making it, and it gave me some ideas for my next video! It will have to wait until a day when my neighbors aren't home though, since their house is literally 30 feet from my window, and they don't appreciate the bass like I do. But, that still doesn't account for my neighbors on the rest of the block, or the other blocks around me. I am surprised I haven't been visited by the police for this reason yet. I used to get noise violations in my truck with two cheap sealed 18's on less than 1000 RMS on a daily basis. My, times have changed!!!


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post #21 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 12:19 AM
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why have 12's to go with your 22's? Please dont say to have the 22s do the lows and the 12s the highs
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post #22 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I was thinking of running them as mid bass drivers, something to cover the 100-250 range. I have a deal for the the amp worked out, I just need to go get it, so I might as well use that 5th channel for something. It even has an excellent crossover in it, that can be set to run either subs or mid bass. It seems much nicer than most 5 channel amps I have seen. If it is comparable to my mono block, then I should be in for a treat! I probably don't need it, but I like to go overboard! Muahhaahaha!

Does anyone on here know how to mod my recievers built-in sub-out crossover slope? That is one thing I really wish I could change about it. I have the service manual, and know the amp's components fairly well, since it had two channels that had caught fire before I got it, and I rebuilt it from the ground up. It is an Onkyo HTR520....

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post #23 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 01:10 AM
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I like the sound of that 100-250
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post #24 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you cross your speakers in the roof of your van at? I am trying to get an idea of what to set it up for, I want to run some 6.5" or 8" mids and and I will have tweeters, and most likely some horns for the highs. I havent figured it all out yet. I'm still at the planning stage, but I want to build my own component sets from the ground up.

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post #25 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 04:49 AM
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Maybe its just the angle of the pic, but isnt the port a little too close to the back of the box? Looks fine in the rendering though.

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Sub - SVS PB-2000
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post #26 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually I'm surprised you caught that, the rendering shown above is an old revision, and I lengthened the ports after I posted that. The ports are actually too close to the back wall by 3/4 of an inch. I overlooked it in my design, and by the time I caught it, I had already built the box. I'm sure there are some negative effects of it on the ports, but I haven't gotten around to tearing the ports out to shorten them yet. Maybe I never will, I might just design a a whole new box and build another from scratch.

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post #27 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_carter View Post

What do you cross your speakers in the roof of your van at? I am trying to get an idea of what to set it up for, I want to run some 6.5" or 8" mids and and I will have tweeters, and most likely some horns for the highs. I havent figured it all out yet. I'm still at the planning stage, but I want to build my own component sets from the ground up.

I have played from 50Hz to 125Hz, and depending on what gets overpowered and therefore wasted by the subs will determine the final, but I am at 71Hz right now. 50Hz works but will definately get stomped by the subs, and gives less headroom. 63Hz and 71Hz give the most snap and punch and minimal loss in deep voices. 80Hz on up and you start losing deep voices.
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post #28 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_carter View Post

Actually I'm surprised you caught that, the rendering shown above is an old revision, and I lengthened the ports after I posted that. The ports are actually too close to the back wall by 3/4 of an inch. I overlooked it in my design, and by the time I caught it, I had already built the box. I'm sure there are some negative effects of it on the ports, but I haven't gotten around to tearing the ports out to shorten them yet. Maybe I never will, I might just design a a whole new box and build another from scratch.

Haha, Im a car audio guy and have built alot of boxes, so I look at those things... of course the same applies to home audio im sure. Either way, if it works good, dont fix it!

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post #29 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, enclosures are actually whats giving me most of my business right now. I learned quite a bit from this build, and have only gotten better since then. My last box I built was for two Alpine Type-R 12's in a Suburban. Turned out silly loud and it pulls a pretty nice little hair trick at only 1000 watts RMS. That's what super low tuning and lots of port area are good for! Now, if I can only make it so the guys voltages don't drop and sends the amp into protect when he turns it up, it will be perfect. Those Kenwood amps are such inefficient bastards!

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post #30 of 37 Old 12-08-2010, 09:51 PM
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The right box will do wonders, too bad most people crusing around dont realize that.. my 1 12" on 600 watts is more than twice as loud and plays with tons more authority on the low stuff than the past 3 pairs of 12's ive heard in other peoples cars..haha kinda sad

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