Originally Posted by Warpdrv
Ricci, does it make any sense to run at least 1 or 2 THD sweeps at a more normal listening level to kinda keep things in check.
We were comparing the DTS vs LMS and were curious roughly when the THD starts to ramp up.
Question that was asked - Which I thought was a good question by Jostenmeat -
We can all sense differences in output, and can hear differences in decay/overhang, but what distortion levels/percentages are discernible to us with LFE frequencies, and just how far beyond these thresholds do horns get to? I mean I read up on the Fitzmaurice folded horn, and sub-5% distortion . . . is that even perceivable with LFE (honest question)?
It appears that no one has looked at Josh's DTS-10 results, which seem to coincide fairly closely to my much attacked posts in the DTS thread.
Of the many condescending comments I was pelted with:
Originally Posted by noah katz
"OK, I hafta say, I'm disappointed."
By now it's clear that you very much want to be.
You've implied/said more than once that because the DTS-10 is performing worse in Ricci's room than outdoors that it must be lacking.
You know *way* better than this and I'm sorry to say that I'm disappointed after having gained a lot of respect for you for your usually informed and rational posts.
Granted, it seems that we expected too much, however you're putting a lot of spin on what was initially said.For example, I said no amount of Mael's in the same size box, and I stand by that.
If you disagree, please provide a simulation that shows otherwise, as you've done many times before.
"Noah says it's your room and that I should know better."
As Dennis pointed out, you still haven't dug yourself out of that hole w/a rational response, just bluster.
I have to say, your bluster is very good; have you considered politics?
Great stuff. Rather than post a simulation and debate this sort of posturing on the side of delusion over reality, I patiently awaited Josh's results, as I was all but certain what they would reveal, after seeing Heddon's botched GP results and Josh's in-room compression sweeps (compared with his XXX in-room compression sweeps).
Never was sure what Noah was referring to when he said I should know better that to post what I did, but the truth is that Josh had provided enough data from his in-room sweeps and THD numbers to correlate well enough with the Heddon numbers to draw conclusions that were at the very least much closer to reality than Tom Danley's suggestion:
Tell me why you didn't post a long rebuttal to Noah's earlier comment:
I don't check in here every day, I have stuff to do you know and can't read every post .Besides what he said was essentially what I had said more or less.
According to my computer model, it should be able to produce over 120dB at 1m at 12Hz before Xmax is reached. Also I said that reality is always less but has yet to be measured.
Instead of being Don Quixote based on rather scant data, why not wait until the CEA measurements are done?. Now I am curious, what the subwoofers are you talking about and how do they perform RE: Illka's test?
Well, he was only off by 20dB.
Since you can easily put 4-MX-18s in a DTS box, we'll have to ask Noah if he still "stands by his statement" that no amount of Maels in the DTS box will approach the performance, but, Josh has measured the XXX and a pair of SDX-15s in sealed boxes, and Ilk, of course, has measured the LMS-18 in a smallish box.
Here is the 110dB sweep of the DTS-10 laid over the sweeps of the LMS with compression shown for the DTS and the LMS @ 115dB. I also placed a trace that would conservatively
represent one of Warp's 2xLMS subs:
I then overlaid the single LMS THD results from its 115dB sweep for comparison:
Conclusion? A pair of LMS 18s, or a pair of XXXs, or 4 SDXs will outperform the DTS-10. 8-Ed 18s with 10KW, as I said then and shouldn't have to repeat here, will outperform a pair of DTS-10s in every category.
You can easily debate <20 Hz harmonic distortion because it will be considerably reduced by typical room gain, but I'm sure no one here can easily explain away the DTS-10s >20 Hz THD as being inaudible.
Based on these results, one would have to conclude that harmonic distortion is preferable and subjectively is described as "that extremely clean horn sound".
IMO, the DTS-10 is a one octave bandpass subwoofer. It's good from 12-25 Hz. Elsewhere, not so good, unless I've been misreading test results for 8 years.