Wolfhorn SDX Design Finished - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 351 Old 07-24-2011, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Driver displacement screen shows one way excursion.
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post #212 of 351 Old 07-24-2011, 08:29 AM
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Thanks. That just crushed my first TH dreams. hahah. Gotta learn though
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post #213 of 351 Old 08-16-2011, 04:44 PM
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Wolf,

Any LP freq response measurements from one/both???

JSS
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post #214 of 351 Old 08-16-2011, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Not as of yet... I was waiting until I got better measurement gear, but that was before the used laptop I bought died and the basement flooded. It's put me way behind on a lot of things. And now I have an infected foot to deal with too.

I think I'll probably try to get a few measurements with the old SPL meter at some point. Won't be that accurate, but it's the best I can do. No telling when I can afford to get the new gear. Hoping before my birthday. I have the UCA222 bought, but that's all I got before stuff happened.

Also want to do a video of distortion testing below the corner, just to show people how much useful output I have at LP when both horns are doing 13-15Hz sine waves. Want people to see just how room dependent tapped horns can be when playing below the corner.
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post #215 of 351 Old 08-17-2011, 01:56 PM
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Sorry to hear about your foot and basement.

I am glad this got brought back up. I decided to build 2 of these for my room.
Got the speakers Monday, but I won't actually be building till next month some time.
I have read and reread this entire thread multiple times.
Do you have any other helpful hints about construction that aren't covered here?

I am going to use them as part of the riser for the second row with the mouth to the front.
My plan is to have them firing into the back of the front row seats
Or do you think I would get better results with the mouth to the rear of the room into the corners, then ported through the floor?

There are picks of the room and dimensions here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1329606

Thanks for your time and effort
Erich
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post #216 of 351 Old 08-17-2011, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Uh... don't drop them on your foot while building them... ask me how I know that's a bad thing

Sawhorses really, really help. Can't stress that enough... saved me a lot of time on this one. Scrap wood to hold the internal panels in place while you're screwing them down helps too.

You can put the mouth anywhere you want at the end of the horn as long as the area is kept the same. I left mine end firing because I'm too lazy for driver access panels.

Other than that, you should be ok though I'm not sure how it would sound in room front firing. You won't get any help from corner loading like I am, but two of them should give you more than enough output for the space. Especially if you couple the mouths together. I'm already scared for kitty. Ported through the floor? Not sure I follow there...
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post #217 of 351 Old 08-17-2011, 05:32 PM
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Ported through the floor (riser).
I would have the enclosures laying on their side so they are 13 ½ inches tall.
I would cover the box for the floor and then cut holes in the floor for the sound to come out of.
I would also seal off the area under the riser, kind of make the horn longer.
Here is a very quick edit of a sketchup
Ported through the floor in red
Preferred area between stairs in burnt red

Thanks again
Erich
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post #218 of 351 Old 08-17-2011, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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That would work, maybe better than forward firing them. If you go that way, leave room for access panels just in case you need to replace a driver. Just remember that if you end up making the horn longer, it'll take less to bottom the drivers, not to mention totally changing the response. I would fire them directly upwards through the red areas and not let them play under the riser at all. Put the mouth in the corner of the box like the DTS-10 has it.

Almost forgot...



Guess how this happened

That is not a small piece of wall, there. Maybe 15" high. And it's a good 14 feet away from the horns. Scott Pilgrim at around 116-117dB peaks at LP did this.
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post #219 of 351 Old 08-19-2011, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Did someone ask for measurements?

Before I show y'all these, just remember - they were done with a cheap eBay SPL meter, no cal file, with the C weighting option checked. The most accurate part of this setup is the Behringer UCA222 used to capture these.

First, Wolfhorn SDX by itself, listening position. 90dB sweep. This is the loudest I can run it without wall panels vibrating, and the loudest I will run it without a highpass. SDX drivers don't grow on trees, and I can't afford to replace them.



Now, before I show the other two graphs of both horns through the Reckhorn, I want to remind you how the B-2's highpass and EQ is currently set (purple line):



Ok, now both horns through the B-2, 90dB sweep:



Now, take this one with a BIG grain of salt. This one had the walls rattling, which almost certainly got picked up by the meter. 95dB sweep (or so it should have been):



All of this is with the meter at LP.
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post #220 of 351 Old 08-19-2011, 09:40 AM
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Nice. I feel sorry for your house. Need to put one of these up next to your seating areas.

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post #221 of 351 Old 08-19-2011, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I should mention - that 78Hz dip is a null. The two horns together are remarkably flat from 15-140Hz or so, according to my ears.

At any rate, you guys now know why I haven't rushed out and gotten myself a MiniDSP yet. The SDX horn alone would almost require one in my room, but it has the other horn to help it out and flatten the response. I have crazy headroom, even at 120dB listening levels. I still haven't had them louder than that... seriously worried about causing damage to the house if I try it.

Before I forget, a reminder on how they are placed:



Wolfhorn II on top, SDX on the bottom. They are bolted together and chained to the wall. Top horn fires at the upper corner, SDX at lower corner.
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post #222 of 351 Old 08-19-2011, 12:33 PM
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Wow! How many shoestring and Julienne fries can one guy eat??

On another note, those are just massive. Your response plots look nice. I imagine having one firing to the upper and lower corners each even out the vertical nodes nicely. How is your response side to side in the room - for multiple seating positions. If messy, would having one reversed (not firing into the corner) help alleviate any of that? I know you'd take a performance hit, but as you say you've got the headroom...

C.
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post #223 of 351 Old 08-19-2011, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Those boxes are full of old books and 1980's issues of Stereo Review and Audio magazine

Haven't done any real side to side listening yet. The place needs me to get the stuff cleared off the rest of the furniture. The initial plan was to fire the TB horn at the other corner, but due to where the receiver and BD player are, I quickly changed my mind on that idea.

The SDX horn is only massive in length and height. It's thin enough I could fit another one in front of this one and still have them fit behind the screen. It's actually 4" or so away from the back wall in that picture. The TB horn? At 17.5" deep, that's another story.

I will say that the TB horn sounds just a bit better to me for music, because the drivers are more electrically optimal for TH use. Not that the SDX horn sounds bad, mind you, because it doesn't. They've just each got their trade-offs... the TB horn may be a little better with music, but honestly these are not designed for music in the first place. I'd rather see people use two SDX horns than two of the TB ones, just to save a few trees.
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post #224 of 351 Old 08-19-2011, 02:40 PM
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At one point i was wondering if you're still alive man... Hope your foot gets better soon. Man, those boxes are MASSIVE... I mean, i want one, but i'll have to figure out where the heck would i fit it first. *goes off to jonnyguru to read the latest PSU reviews by wolfie*

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post #225 of 351 Old 08-19-2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

First, Wolfhorn SDX by itself, listening position. 90dB sweep. This is the loudest I can run it without wall panels vibrating, and the loudest I will run it without a highpass. SDX drivers don't grow on trees, and I can't afford to replace them.

If you do ever need to send them in for repair or something, CSS will take care of you. Their customer service was out-freaking-standing when I needed it. I had an SDX10 several years ago and a tinsel lead came undone from the coil (possibly from overexcursion, I'm not sure) and after trying to repair it myself (whoops) I realized I should probably leave it to the pro's and sent it in. They shipped it back fixed for no charge! Anytime I decide to upgrade from these MAW15's I've been using I will get a pair of CSS's 12s.
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post #226 of 351 Old 08-19-2011, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post

Man, those boxes are MASSIVE... I mean, i want one, but i'll have to figure out where the heck would i fit it first.

One word - riser

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgboy View Post

If you do ever need to send them in for repair or something, CSS will take care of you. Their customer service was out-freaking-standing when I needed it.

Yep - Bob's a great guy for sure. Even managed to make the shipping a little cheaper for me on the two drivers. As a result, I'm thinking of ordering a third SDX10 soon for the car. Gotta get some other stuff dealt with first though.

The problem is, there's no point even trying to do any high level sweeps in the basement. Everything rattles. And moving them outside for measuring won't happen until I have 1-help and 2-better measuring gear. I will only do that once - these things are heavy.

That reminds me, I still need to get some stuff to make a lilmike impedance jig. That I can do inside.
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post #227 of 351 Old 09-07-2011, 06:44 PM
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Earlier today I was thinking about horns small peaks and dips, later I was thinking about people combining different subs and how I hate then... later still I saw the 2 Wolfhorn thread and then wondered about your combining of 2 different horns how that must smoothen responce... and I read above, it does
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post #228 of 351 Old 09-08-2011, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Though the drivers used are different, the two designs are very similar in ways. That was the whole idea with the new guy - do the same thing as before only in less space. As a result, they compliment each other well.
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post #229 of 351 Old 09-08-2011, 03:02 PM
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Do you have a plot overlay comparing the 2? Just curious, I really like these designs.
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post #230 of 351 Old 09-08-2011, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Best I can do until I get better measuring gear.



The faint line is Wolfhorn II. A couple things to note here. Both plots are with 300W in. WH2 is more sensitive (the drivers in general are more sensitive), and has a slightly more ideal horn flare. This is why it models to higher SPL with the same power. However, the Tang Band drivers are 4mm past Xmax at this level... the SDX drivers are still within Xmax.

300W is still safe for either design. Safe for the SDX's because of the 28mm Xmech/18mm Xmax, and safe for the TB drivers because the motors tend to soak up power like a sponge past Xmax.
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post #231 of 351 Old 09-08-2011, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

Best I can do until I get better measuring gear.



The faint line is Wolfhorn II. A couple things to note here. Both plots are with 300W in. WH2 is more sensitive (the drivers in general are more sensitive), and has a slightly more ideal horn flare. This is why it models to higher SPL with the same power. However, the Tang Band drivers are 4mm past Xmax at this level... the SDX drivers are still within Xmax.

300W is still safe for either design. Safe for the SDX's because of the 28mm Xmech/18mm Xmax, and safe for the TB drivers because the motors tend to soak up power like a sponge past Xmax.

Thank you. Yes they are very similar!
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post #232 of 351 Old 09-09-2011, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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For those looking at this design, I have found a drop-in replacement for the SDX that as it turns out is electrically more suited to tapped horn use, and even ends up modeling better in this design - the Seas Design series L26ROY.

The acoustic load presented by the horn on the drivers is a bit higher, but tolerable IMO. It's only a bit more than you'd see with the SDX's. The big unknown is whether the driver can handle the compression ratio - it should. Try it at your own risk. Xmax and Xmech are pretty much identical to the SDX.

It should be mentioned this driver is more expensive than the SDX by a fair bit... they go for $225 each at Solen in Canada. $228 at Madisound in the US.

 

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post #233 of 351 Old 09-10-2011, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
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*goes off to jonnyguru to read the latest PSU reviews by wolfie*

THATS why OW's screen name looked so familiar, I got a PSU off him a few months back :P
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post #234 of 351 Old 09-10-2011, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Still working, I hope
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post #235 of 351 Old 09-21-2011, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Another video for interested peoples. Excursion on the SDX horn was starting to get a bit high again... I suspect the B-2 highpass setting has drifted off my desired settings. It's done that before. Not a big worry for me as I do have that other horn helping out, but once again this shows why a MiniDSP is the better option for the SDX design.

Even so, my LFE was set above reference here... not a problem for either horn. This is way above my usual listening levels. It was so loud, the horns had the dogs thinking there was a thunderstorm coming. The dogs were outside.



Edit - no drift on the highpass. After re-watching the video, excursion was nowhere near high enough to worry about. An inch peak to peak.
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post #236 of 351 Old 10-30-2011, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Happy Halloween, everybody. I got my fun out of the way early, just so y'all could enjoy this with me.

The Haunting, DTS-ES. These are the DTS trailer, knocking, and room morph scenes. Average SPL for most of the hardcore bass scenes was about 118dB at listening position. Hit 122dB during the room morphing scene. SPL meter is set on 120dB.

About the camera.... I know, I know. It sucks and won't focus on the SPL meter. Did not too bad focusing on the projection screen though.

This was the first time I've run this movie since before the first TH went together. This movie needs both big picture and big sound to be any good, and it was an absolute blast this time around. Literally

Now, they need to hurry up and release this on Blu-Ray.

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post #237 of 351 Old 12-01-2011, 12:34 PM
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Mr Wolf, Let me start by saying Thank you for all your time designing and sharing your build. I will be building 2 of these like Mr. Fun4me did for a couch riser driving them with an EP4000. My question is that I contacted CSS and got this response from Bob,

"Just to let you know that we are on our last batch of this driver and the Mk II version will have better performance. It will also be more money and there may be a period when we are out of stock."

I don't see the Mk II on the web site and don't know if it will work for your Wolfhorn?
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post #238 of 351 Old 12-01-2011, 12:39 PM
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The mkii driver does not exist yet.

Regards,
Dan
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post #239 of 351 Old 12-01-2011, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm... first I've heard about a mark II for the SDX10. Even if the 10 does go away, there is an alternate in the Seas L26ROY, as I've mentioned. An expensive alternate, but an alternate nonetheless.

I'll look for other alternates as I see the need for them. As long as the SDX10 is around though, that will probably be the cheapest option. Not too many 10's around that will work well in a 16Hz design.
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post #240 of 351 Old 12-01-2011, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

Another video for interested peoples. Excursion on the SDX horn was starting to get a bit high again... I suspect the B-2 highpass setting has drifted off my desired settings. It's done that before. Not a big worry for me as I do have that other horn helping out, but once again this shows why a MiniDSP is the better option for the SDX design.

Even so, my LFE was set above reference here... not a problem for either horn. This is way above my usual listening levels. It was so loud, the horns had the dogs thinking there was a thunderstorm coming. The dogs were outside.



Edit - no drift on the highpass. After re-watching the video, excursion was nowhere near high enough to worry about. An inch peak to peak.

Holy cow that is DEEEEP!
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