Wolfhorn SDX Design Finished - Page 9 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #241 of 343 Old 12-01-2011, 11:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kryptonitewhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

Happy Halloween, everybody. I got my fun out of the way early, just so y'all could enjoy this with me.

The Haunting, DTS-ES. These are the DTS trailer, knocking, and room morph scenes. Average SPL for most of the hardcore bass scenes was about 118dB at listening position. Hit 122dB during the room morphing scene. SPL meter is set on 120dB.

About the camera.... I know, I know. It sucks and won't focus on the SPL meter. Did not too bad focusing on the projection screen though.

This was the first time I've run this movie since before the first TH went together. This movie needs both big picture and big sound to be any good, and it was an absolute blast this time around. Literally

Now, they need to hurry up and release this on Blu-Ray.


ridiculous!
kryptonitewhite is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #242 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 07:22 AM
Member
 
modelaratrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks again I'll order 4 of the SDX10's and start my build, what would you suggest for hi pass? I'll be xmax'n these with an ep4000.
modelaratrod is offline  
post #243 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
MiniDSP.

The iNuke NU3000DSP may be worth looking into if you don't have the EP4K yet... not too familiar with it. As long as it will do a 12Hz or so highpass at better than 24dB/octave it should do the job.

How big a space are you filling?
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #244 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

MiniDSP.

The iNuke NU3000DSP may be worth looking into if you don't have the EP4K yet... not too familiar with it. As long as it will do a 12Hz or so highpass at better than 24dB/octave it should do the job.

How big a space are you filling?

FYI, the last version of the iNuke software I played with stopped at 20 Hz.
lilmike is offline  
post #245 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Doh! I think I'll take that suggestion off the table then. No point building this design if you're going to highpass that high.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #246 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 08:44 AM
Member
 
modelaratrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The EP4000 is already on its way, the room is about 14 x 18 but one side has a 4 foot opening up to the next room so that's why I'm doing 2 of them in a riser like FUN4ME did.
modelaratrod is offline  
post #247 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
You're going to have so much fun with these

My room's open to the rest of the house, and I still can't run the two horns wide open. They break things when they get that loud.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #248 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Folks, we have another driver alternate. The Fi X10 also works in this horn.

So, there are options now if the SDX10 goes away, or changes into something incompatible.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #249 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 11:02 AM
Member
 
modelaratrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
modelaratrod is offline  
post #250 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 11:38 AM
Member
 
FUN4ME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by modelaratrod View Post

The EP4000 is already on its way, the room is about 14 x 18 but one side has a 4 foot opening up to the next room so that's why I'm doing 2 of them in a riser like FUN4ME did.

Nice I hope you do a build thread.
I am happy every time I listen to them.
FUN4ME is offline  
post #251 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by modelaratrod View Post

From Ficaraudio.com?

Yep. Take that with a grain of salt, though. I don't know if the specs are totally accurate, have no interest at this time in testing them out, and am not sure how they like the compression ratio.

I'd put the Seas driver ahead of it. And the SDX ahead of both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUN4ME View Post

I am happy every time I listen to them.

Glad to hear it
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #252 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Member
 
modelaratrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
SDX it will be then.

As for the horn itself plywood or High density fiberboard?
modelaratrod is offline  
post #253 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I would do plywood.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #254 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 01:28 PM
Member
 
modelaratrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I just finished reading the thread "Baltic Birch vs MDF vs engineered core".

Baltic Birch it is, as many ply's with no voids but how thick?

Just a side note I just ordered a mm tape measure instead of converting your plans. :-)
modelaratrod is offline  
post #255 of 343 Old 12-05-2011, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
You don't have to do BB - it's expensive, and the plans are designed around 4x8' sheets.

Any decent relatively void free 3/4" ply will do.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #256 of 343 Old 12-16-2011, 10:35 AM
Member
 
modelaratrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The EP4k showed up so my son and I hooked it up to his 2 12" Kickers in a sealed box to try it out and WOW this amp has some serious juice!

The 4 SDX's showed up yesterday so tonight we'll hit home depot and make some saw dust.
modelaratrod is offline  
post #257 of 343 Old 12-16-2011, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Yep - make sure you go easy on the horns until you know what they can do. If your room is as challenging as mine is, 450W each may be enough to bottom the drivers if the highpass is incorrectly set. 450W above 15Hz won't get them into trouble though.

Looking forward to seeing how yours turn out. Any questions, just ask.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #258 of 343 Old 12-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Member
 
jimmy154's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nashua NH
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there a way I can change the shape of the enclosure. I want to make it 19" deep, so that I can make the long dimension shorter. I'm not sure how easy this would be.
jimmy154 is offline  
post #259 of 343 Old 12-22-2011, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Unfortunately, horns don't work like that... if you want to keep that 16Hz corner, it'll still need to be long enough to support it. You might be able to re-fold it so that it's shorter and taller, but that's about it. You have to get that 20+ feet of horn in there somehow. I just folded it this way because it was easiest.

Changing the depth would completely change the design. Not sure what the result would be - some increase is ok, but 19" is a long way from 13.5." Goes without saying it would take a lot more wood.

How much shorter do you need it? My Tang Band horn is a little shorter and wider. Still a 16Hz design though, so that only amounts to a few inches.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #260 of 343 Old 12-23-2011, 10:15 AM
Member
 
jimmy154's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nashua NH
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I understand about the length. I was hoping maybe someone already or would do it for me, lol.

I want to use SDX10 drivers. Tang Bangs are not that sexy

The thing I don't understand about the application of these "horns" is that above 60 hertz the response is very ragged. What is done to solve this problem?

I was hoping to make an enclosure 19x30x48 inches roughly. Looks to be about 2.57 cu. ft. shy of what I need.

What I really like about these quarter wave resonators, that taper from small closed end to big open end is that they play loud down to 15 Hz. What I don't like is that, of course, this means there will be compression and I'm not sure how that affects sound quality. Also just like with transmission lines, since that is what these appear to be, there's a 1/4 wave delay between what you hear from the driver and the opening. Although it seems as though it might be less noticeable because the resonance is so much louder than the sound directly from the driver.
jimmy154 is offline  
post #261 of 343 Old 12-23-2011, 01:27 PM
Member
 
modelaratrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I just watched/ listened to a video of your horn on my horn! lmao!

One down, one to go....

Thanks again for all the info.
modelaratrod is offline  
post #262 of 343 Old 12-23-2011, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy154 View Post

I understand about the length. I was hoping maybe someone already or would do it for me, lol.

I want to use SDX10 drivers. Tang Bangs are not that sexy

The thing I don't understand about the application of these "horns" is that above 60 hertz the response is very ragged. What is done to solve this problem?

The Tang Band drivers are actually more electrically optimal for tapped horn use. As a result, it sounds just a bit better in general than the SDX horn. Not that I notice it very often. The tradeoff there is that they require so much more space it's not worth building that horn. I learned from it and did a better one

Transmission lines and tapped horns do share that 1/4 wave resonator, but are not really the same beast. The SDX design is an undersized tapped horn... it doesn't have an ideal horn flare, and this does have some sonic drawbacks, but it is still a horn nonetheless. Had to compromise if I wanted it to fit in three sheets of plywood.

As far as the ragged response goes, Hornresp assumes perfect conditions. A lot of those peaks and dips aren't there in real life. If you take a look at my measurements elsewhere in this thread, you'll see how my pair do in room. The two of them are remarkably flat without EQ over three octaves or so.

I'd get more into horn theory, but it's been an insanely busy week and I can't think straight anymore. There are others who can probably explain it better than I can... I'm still getting my head around some of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modelaratrod View Post

I just watched/ listened to a video of your horn on my horn! lmao!

One down, one to go....

Muahahaha! Soon, the earthquakes begin...
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #263 of 343 Old 02-24-2012, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Got bored, did another video. Well, actually six videos but I put them all together. Apologies for the terrible quality - I just don't have a good camera.

Just a demonstration of what happens in this house when I put sine waves through the horns below the corner frequency. Started at 12Hz, ended at 15Hz. Though not loud enough to register on the SPL meter due to the highpass, 12Hz was already loud enough at the fundamental to get ductwork rattling - not sure if you can hear that in the video due to the quality.

15Hz is pretty much high enough in frequency that I can't turn it up loud enough to find the limits of the two horns. As it is, it was pretty violent. The couch was visibly shaking, the screen was flapping, the door to my bedroom was rattling hard, the light fixture on the ceiling was moving up and down by more than half an inch... it was nuts. This is why that fixture no longer has a shade on it. This is why I have to change that light bulb frequently. I actually had to pop my ears after this one ended.

Final part of the clip is the first music demo of the horns I've recorded... they were set 8dB over reference for this. Used a recording of the world's largest pipe organ... this track has strong content down to 8Hz. Blew a woofer in the mains near the end (already replaced with a spare). 121dB at listening position from the horns. The camera couldn't handle the SPL on some of those peaks... you can sort of hear it distorting in places despite the sucktastic sound quality.

Probably the last video I'll be making of these. I can't let them get any louder in a place I'm only renting, but they will do it if I ask them to.



Now, to go design me some new mains. I shouldn't have asked them to try and keep up with the two monsters
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #264 of 343 Old 03-09-2012, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Since it looks like the SDX10 may be replaced by an updated model in the near or far future, and I am not exactly sure what the new guy will be like, I've found another driver alternate for this design: the Dayton TIT280C-4.

Standard disclaimer - I have not tried this driver, have not measured this driver, try it at your own risk. It's not as ideal for the design as the Seas L26ROY would be, but it's cheaper and still models quite well. Better than the SDX, in some ways.

Hornresp file attached.

For now, the SDX10 seems to still be around and will always be the driver this horn was meant for. I'll investigate the replacement when it's around to be investigated. But if you can't get the SDX, there are options.

Edit - Bob at CSS has told me the SDX is going nowhere. So, we're good for the foreseeable future.

 

titansdx.txt 0.423828125k . file
Attached Files
File Type: txt titansdx.txt (434 Bytes, 5 views)
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #265 of 343 Old 03-10-2012, 04:32 PM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Just perused your thread again. I initially read it as it, bit by bit as it was posted. Interesting, certtainly,....those sure seem quite potent, and offer high value for the DIY'er.

Thanks for sharing

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is online now  
post #266 of 343 Old 03-10-2012, 05:46 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Very cool. I wonder how a pair of TB 740P's would be in a slimmed version of that horn.
urapnes1 is offline  
post #267 of 343 Old 03-10-2012, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
The W8-740P in pairs would be best kept to around 20Hz... they really don't have the displacement to pull off a 16Hz design that would end up being worth building.

The SDX10 was literally the smallest thing I could find that would do the job, though there are other 10's that will work in this design.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #268 of 343 Old 04-25-2012, 12:11 AM
Newbie
 
gordondean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
can we use a pair lab12 for driver with internal panel 320mm wide? or maybe only use one lab12 driver ?

thanks!
gordondean is offline  
post #269 of 343 Old 04-25-2012, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Nope, sorry... the Lab12 is all wrong for this design.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #270 of 343 Old 06-07-2012, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Bumping this thread again on account of the fact that I now have actual electrical impedance measurements for this beast. Did them with the help of lilmike's DIY impedance jig, REW, and my Behringer UCA222.

What have I learned? Well, for one thing, I learned I got way closer to the model on this build than I did my Tang Band horn.

Hornresp model:

WolfhornSDXModeledElectricalImpedance.jpg

Impedance measurement with phase:

wolfhornsdximpedancewithphase-1.jpg
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off