Clearwave Dynamic 4T's. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I only built these enclosures to listen to these speakers before I leave for basic and tech school. I messed up on one of my outer baffles and don't have time to make a new one before I leave so I will just be listening to one speaker for the next day. Then when I get back I will rebuild them with curved walls when I have time.

My speaker next to the one it's replacing.


More info on the build can be found here.
http://clearwave.forumotion.net/cld-...mk2-s-t108.htm

*edit* It sounds like Jed is taking down his forum from one of his emails "If there are any visuals that you need from a build perspective from this forum, save them now", so I will now copy/paste all of my posts from there, over into this thread. Sorry for the bump.

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post #2 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 10:18 AM
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Excellent. they are on a list of speakers I am considering. I'd love to hear your opinion.

T6

Clearwave 4TSE and 4CC build thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19489740
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post #3 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 10:24 AM
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Woah! Is that what the Clearwave Dynamic 4T is? Daayum! Nice.

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post #4 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t6902wf View Post

Excellent. they are on a list of speakers I am considering. I'd love to hear your opinion.

My opinion is IT (left channel only since I messed up the right outer baffle) sounds better than the Infinity Beta-50 it's replacing. The woofers still need to be broke in more, and I need to build the second one before really evaluating it...Oh and also a better source unit since I am using my computer with built in sound card.

My wife however, liked the Beta-50's until she heard the 4T's and then thought the Beta-50's "had a runny nose". That's her review...
I don't think I'll be letting her do any critical listening reviews in the future.

*edit*
If you decide you want to build the 4T's, I'll be selling these blank enclosures a little over a year from now when I get my curved enclosures built. Just a shameless plug

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post #5 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 12:02 PM
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Looney,

Sort of off topic but you mention heading to "basic". You going in the service?

James
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post #6 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup, Air National Guard. Good benefits while finishing my electrical engineering degree. I joined nearly a year ago which is why I made a classified ad on HTG and HTS forums selling off some of my gear. Why it took so long, I can't say on an open forum.

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post #7 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 03:17 PM
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Congrats and thanks.

I saw your posting with the TD's but they seemed to be gone in two seconds.

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post #8 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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James,
I still want to build a set of speakers like yours, but I'm now going to use these 4T's as my reference for all future builds. The midbass these put out is better than the Infinity's they're replacing, but still don't approach the TD15X's. Oh well, they went to a good home. The owner already had a pair of TD15M's and used mine for the bass section.

For my needs though, this speaker is working great. I spend probably 3-4hrs a day listening to music around -35 to -28db. A few minutes a week I'll listen between -3 and -0db. Movies are typically at -20 to -10db...so I can get away without using Lambda drivers and high end ribbons for now

t6902,
What other speakers are you considering?

I think tomorrow I will hook up my Ep2500 so I can give it some decent power and see how it sounds. I really wish I wouldn't have incorrectly measured my right channel's baffle because I'd be rocking a pair of them right now.

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post #9 of 25 Old 09-20-2010, 08:40 PM
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Looney,

From what I have read Jed can make some nice speakers so I have no doubt you are enjoying them.

One day if you feel like giving it a try, you may want to look into a Pass B1 DIY project. I just did one and am very happy with it. I only use it on my turntable at this time though.

James
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post #10 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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In case you didn't read the edit on the first post, Jed may be taking down the DIY section of his forum, so I will be putting all of my posts on his forum, into this thread.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
vv Originally posted over at Clearwave forum vv
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skip to the next post if you don't care to read why I picked these and other blogg'ish style stuff.

Well, the wife and I finally bought a TV last Thanksgiving after having been without one for a couple years. At that time, I had 6 Infinity Beta-20's and enjoyed their sound enough that I bought some Beta-50 towers to match. All I needed was the matching Beta-c360 (3way) center channel and I'd be done. I showed my wife what they looked like and the put the tape measure on our TV stand in order to get perspective on how big it was. It's 24" wide, the same width as our TV base, but not as deep. She just shook her head and said no. She said it would look dumb having what would look like a real tall base on our TV. Instead, she wanted it BIGGER; the same width as the TV.



Well, now I need a huge center channel about 50.5" wide, but who makes one? No one. That's when I came across the 4CC kit and knew I could modify the width to suit my needs. Well, if I'm going with a new center, I also have to get timbre matching towers. Months later, I saw a classified ad for some 4T MK2's with upgraded XO's and picked 'em up.

Now my build is going to be difficult, especially since I don't have a work shop, but I really want them a certain style; a sort of blend between Sonus Faber Amati and Paradigm Studio series. Knowing that they'd take me absolutely forever to build, I decided just to throw together a boring cubic enclosure just so I could at least use them. What really sucks is I just found out that in less than 3 weeks, I will be gone with the military for about a year. Now I have to rush to get these built in order to listen to them a little before I leave, just to then box 'em up and place 'em in storage.

BTW, over a year from now, I will have blank 4T enclosures for someone that I will part with for cost

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post #11 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's my driver's and crossovers. The upgraded XO's with the Clarity caps and Mill's are on the hardboard. Jed's latest upgraded crossovers come on PCB board and are GOOP glued according to a post of his made on HTguide. The PCB boards shown are standard XO's for the 4cc that I will build when I'm back from my military stuff.


You can also see my TV and stand in the background. The TV will eventually go on the wall, the stand will be replaced with a much bigger one that I build later, and the 4cc will be close to the same width as the TV.


I mark my straight edge 1.5" farther than where I need to cut.


Here my straight edge is clamped and I run my saw down it. My blade sits 1.5" away from the edge of it, which is why I have pencil lines no where near where I cut.


Panel cut. Also, you can see my nice Kingsford work bench.


Because I don't have a table saw to use, my panels/braces are not perfect and need to be squared.


More sanding, braces and panels. Luckily I over cut them a tiny bit in order to sand them to size.


Dry fitting before cutting the rear MF/HF chamber panel down to 14"


Clamping my first brace. Because I don't have many clamps (only two that can clamp more than 6") I have to glue braces together that I can later use to support gluing on large panels.


Here the brace is glued and clamped. You can see the square still clamped to the vertical board.


I couldn't get the clamp on the lower MF/HF brace, so I had to improvise in order to keep things square. This idea ended up sucking horribly because the 14" brace ended up moving while drilling and then when I went to glue it, it wasn't square. It wasn't off by much and was easily smashed flat against the side panel with a few weights. Pics to come later.


Clamping the MF/HF chamber braces. That nice H-frame will give the enclosure support for all subsequent gluing. This one didn't use dowels and to keep it square I clamped it to another board with my little C-clamps and my square to make sure it wasn't twisted.


Dry fitting the braces. To make sure my measurements were right, I used drivers to make sure the spacing is correct.

^Double IPA lending a hand.


Marking all the bracing. You can see the MF/HF chamber braces in the background.


Nice.


I glued two braces because I had two clamps. To make sure things are lined up, I used my side panels as guides and layed some wax paper down to keep from the gluing the braces to the side panel.


Here I tried to glue 3 braces at once. I ended up using both H-frames for support. By the way, that long skinny piece of MDF spanning all my braces is the excess on my full 4x8 sheet of MDF that I cut the 4 side panels, two outer baffles and one inner baffle.


Rear view.


Now I glued the H-frame (the one on the left). The lower weights are to help keep the supporting top panel stable.


Marking the drill hole for cutting out the ports.


Cutting the recess in order to flush mount the port. I then cut the hole much too small and had to enlarge it with a jig saw. I used a round over and orbital sander to slowly trim away the wood. I tried to keep as much material as possible. More pics on that later.


Gluing the side panel on. You can see my clamps are put to good use and also why I had to have those H-frames done in order to glue on the side panel. Oh, the work area has changed a bit from my previous pictures. Don't be surprised if your wife kicks you out of the living room and into the kid's playroom. That's one of the banes of not having a workshop.


I have all the lines and drill points marked, but I don't have a drill press or wood bits. Those V pointed drill bits tend to move, so to help keep them on center, I use a nail to make a stater hole to hold my drill bit. I started with a 5/64" bit and worked my way up to 1/8"


Here you can see the pilot holes started by my nail.

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post #12 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's where I stopped tonight.


I'm now trying to figure out where I am going to be putting the crossovers and also how to get the wires into the MF/HF chamber; 3/16" hole sealed with silicone?.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I should mention to anyone looking, I am not using the same enclosure size as what Jed spec's.

To make the build easier, the cabinets are 49" tall (the width of MDF), 18" deep, and 8" wide. This made cutting my 1st sheet of MDF real easy. My cut sheet is drawn (not to scale) on a scrap piece of paper somewhere. I was able to get 4 side panels, two outer baffles (cut slightly oversized), and one inner baffle on one sheet of MDF with about 1.5"x49" of scrap left over. The second sheet I had sitting around with some cuts already made in it, but I was still able to cut the rest of the panels/braces.

The slight increase in size results in a net woofer volume increase of around 10%. I forget what the exact amount is, but it's not too far off. This should help the low bass output a tad.

Because I'll be leaving soon, I've been spending more time with the fam and less time making sawdust, but I should still get these "listenable" before I leave.

What I have left to do:
-Cut out the inner baffles around where the driver's mount to give the drivers more breathing room.
-Get crossovers mounted and wires run. (Gonna use 12awg OFC on one and 16awg silver w/teflon on the other to see if I hear a difference)
-Glue on the other side panels.
-Stuffing/sound deadening.
-Cut the driver holes in the outer baffles.
-Install drivers and binding posts.
-Figure out outrigger feet.
-Call my friends up and enjoy some cold beer while listening to tunes..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our son had a checkup today. Because of his cancer, even if he gets a cough, he has to go in. Kansas City is a tad over an hour away and blood tests take 1.5-2hrs so usual round trips take 4-5hrs. My wife took the kids (4y/o and 7 weeks) and left me home to clean the house and get some speaker building done.

Here's what I got done the other day and today.

This is my inner baffle, all marked up and read to be cut. I put drill holes next to each of the "triangles" in order to get my jig saw blade to make that hard turn. I don't have any pictures of that.


And here's what all those little cutouts look like.


Remember when I mentioned cutting out the port hole was a pain and I didn't remove enough material with the router? Here's what it looks like after setting a jigsaw to 45deg and trying to cut away some material, then finishing it up with an orbital sander. It's not the prettiest, but at least it won't ever be seen.

 



And here's how much material I was able to save. I wanted to remove as little material as possible in order to maintain strength for both the mounting screws and just overall. This was the least blurry of all the pictures I took, 1/2sec shutter.


And here's where I have stopped for the night; XO placement has been determined, the MF and HF drivers have their wiring cut (16awg silver coated OFC w/teflon jacket) and ready to be soldered to the XO's, LF wiring is being cut (12awg OFC), and that's what the inner baffle looks like after removing those driver relief cuts. Not all have been cut due to how I will be gluing on the side panel. I need to keep some material to hold up the weight, so only three of the six cuts were done on the woofers. Once I get the last side panel glued, I can then make the final relief cuts to allow proper breathing room for the woofers.


The wife has a lunch with one of her friends tomorrow and she will be taking the kids with her. Wishful thinking says I will get the outer baffle routed, but since I did not make a template like I had originally planned, I doubt I get all the measurements, markings, and cuts made during that time. I should however get the side panels glued and crossover wiring soldered. Maybe install ports too.

Ahh crap, I just remembered something. The speaker not showing is in the other room getting it's side panel glued on. I did not pre-drill the crossovers and side panel in order to screw down the crossover. Now I gotta figure out a way of attaching that MF/HF XO in position as shown above..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's been busy around here getting everything done before I leave for months, consequently, this thread has been neglected...and so has my attention to detail. I made a critical error on one of my baffles. I spaced the woofers 7.5" apart instead of 7.25".

The good one is on top. I'm still trying to figure out what I will do with the bad one; either remake it, or cut out the excess .25" and glue it back together.


Anyway, getting back into chronological order. Here I am routing the outer baffles on my not-so friendly Sterilite work bench. To increase the weight of the baffle being routed in order to keep it from rotating, I clamped it to the other baffle and later put a clamp on each end of the boards.


Here's my cotton batting I'm cutting to fit between the braces. It will be slid in through a woofer hole after the outer baffle is glued on and the four holes for the binding posts are drilled.


Remember when I mentioned keeping as much material around the port as possible? This was for support for when I clamped on the side panels with all the weights. Anyhow, it also provides plenty of meat around the mounting screws and in combination with predrilling, ensures no splitting. Screw holes lined up with a square to make sure they've level.


Here's the inner and outer baffle (the good one) cut and ready for gluing.


Before I get things glued up, I need to install the XO's. Before I can do that, this woofer XO needed reinforcement. The hot glue came undone, so I used my soldering iron to melt away the glue. This gave me room to use plenty of liquid nails. I also zip tied it for extra holding power.


Here's the woofer XO with speaker gasket tape on the bottom to prevent vibrations once screwed down.


Earlier I had mentioned that I glued on the outer panel before drilling the MF/HF XO and thus couldn't screw it in, so I used some 3M velcro. It's located on the side panel behind the first woofer with the inductors towards the rear to get them away from the magnets.


Time to dry fit before gluing. If anything needs to be done, this is my last chance. Everything looks pretty good. Sure wish I didn't mess up the other baffle, otherwise both speakers would be pictured here.


Here's my line of woofers. Despite my low tech approach to this build, they're looking pretty good.


Right now my speaker is in the other room getting the baffle glued on. I have to flush trim and sand the baffle and install the binding posts and woofers. My sister had a baby this morning, so I don't know if I will get that done today or not. I leave Tuesday (today's Saturday), so I should get to listen to one of my speakers prior to leaving at least..


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post #13 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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It's quilter's batting, 80/20 cotton poly blend. I'm using it to line the walls. I also have poly-fill to put behind it behind the middle divider of the braces. I would buy nice open cell foam and cut to fit, but since I am building these enclosures just to hear my speakers before I leave and will rebuild them when I get back, I wanted to keep costs down.

For wood, my MDF sheet I bought was around 31-32.
Glue, $4?
Polyfill 3$ (can be reused on another build, so I can pass this cost on)
Cotton batting $12 (might be reused on another build. Possibly a sealed subwoofer?)
Velcro $5

All in all, I'm in for less than $60. Too bad it took me so long. I thought I was going to be done in 1.5wks. Had I known it was going to take me this long, I wouldn't have even started since I'm not going to use these enclosures for long..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I have the woofers installed and I checked for air leaks, particularly between the LF and MF/HF chamber to see if my hot glue seal worked. Everything checked out OK, except one of the woofers is squeaking. It sounds like an air leak coming from the phase plug. I'm going to swap it out with another one (since I have 8 sitting around) and see if that fixes it.

*edit*
Ok, I swapped it and it worked like a charm. I guess I will need to get it replaced by PE. I have a 2nd woofer that is making that same noise, but very faint.

Putting my ear up against each of the screws proved they're all tight and sealed, but putting my ear nearly on the phase plug proved the sound is coming from the gap. What's odd is that free-air, the woofer is silent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I've been listening to this one speaker for a little bit now, which enables to A/B it with the speaker it's replacing, an Infinity Beta-50. My wife liked my Beta-50's, but now she says they sound like they have "a runny nose" in comparison to the 4T. How's that for a review?


More to come later tonight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The mids had a couple days of break-in about 2wks ago. I hooked them up to my receiver and played music with just them for quite a few hours. The woofers have had no break-in to speak of...well other than what's happened today, but I've not played anything at high volume.

*edit*
Right now, I can't really pass judgment on these speakers. The MF/HF appears to over power the LF, but more break-in is needed. However, the quality of the MF/HF is nice..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, more build pictures for anyone interested.

Mark the inner baffle and outer baffle before gluing them up (picture taken after it was glued).


My wife asked me why I made all those "crazy cuts" in the inner baffle. Here's why. Lots of bite for the mounting screws.


Tweeter polarity


Something that really bugs me is when a speaker is twisted. To ensure every driver is square with the enclosure, I used my square and lined up the top of the mounting holes. I marked the holes with a pencil, then did my nail and drill trick.


The Binding posts have a hex nut at the base which I wanted aligned just like my woofers since they have six mounting holes. This also worked very well with another idea I had.

 



Here you can see my binding posts lined up angling to the right of the speaker (this is the Left channel speaker). This way, the speaker wire goes off towards the amp side of the speaker and not down across the middle of the port in the rear. This will help prevent port noise coming from speaker wire in front of the port. Why the hex base worked nice is because 6 sides are 60deg angles, but the point, which lined up with my line, is offset by 30deg. Using some of my middle school math (30-60-90 triangle) the distance from the LF and MF/HF binding posts can be attained by using the distance between the Pos and Neg posts as 1 and height as sqrt3. And here's my end result.


The woofers are supposed to be wired up two in series and the two series'd woofers in parallel. I ran the upper and lower two woofers their own lead from the XO, then used a small jumper wire to put each of them in series.


When stuffing my box, I put about 3-4" of loosely packed polyfil towards the rear, then put my cotton batting over it. I then later added more polyfil under the cotton batting. The air space behind the MF/HF camber is filled with poly as specified.


The cotton batting is in place.


Something I find important is to not only crimp your ends, but also solder them on! When I was younger, I would smash them on with pliers only to tug on them later and have the wire pull out. If you add some solder, you not only get a better electrical connection, but it won't accidentally pull out on you.


Ok, here you can see how I lined up my drivers. There's a reason why I lined my mids and tweet up like that (mounting holes making a square and not a diamond) and it's because of how I mounted my woofers. I didn't want the woofers having a mounting hole on top and bottom. I wanted a little more wood area between the mounting screws from each woofer and having a screw top and bottom put them a bit close for comfort. Plus, I find my way more aesthetically pleasing. You may not, but as Frank Sinatra said, I did it my way.


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post #14 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 10:05 AM
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I just finished my 4ts and 4cc about a week ago. The are an incredible sounding set of speakers.
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post #15 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I still have yet to finish my 4CC. Then, later, I would like to buy a 2T kit to use as surrounds, but we'll see how funds go.

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post #16 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 02:47 PM
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Those speakers are so impressive, great job with the limited tools! I still dont understand why Clearwave wants to kill off all of these lower priced designs...
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post #17 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 04:30 PM
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Im sure high end finished speakers have a much higher profit margin. A guys gotta eat! Btw, I have a couple photos of mine in the finished speaker sticky
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post #18 of 25 Old 04-28-2012, 04:38 PM
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He could still sell these designs (including a revamp of his "lineup series") as finished speakers. Just seems counter productive to eliminate 95% of the market segment.
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post #19 of 25 Old 05-10-2012, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

He could still sell these designs (including a revamp of his "lineup series") as finished speakers. Just seems counter productive to eliminate 95% of the market segment.

Edit: see next post


Best Regards,
Jed

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post #20 of 25 Old 05-04-2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Those speakers are so impressive, great job with the limited tools! I still dont understand why Clearwave wants to kill off all of these lower priced designs...

Jay-- as of 5/5/2013, the Clearwave Dynamic 4CCSE and 4TSE kits are now back up on my website. I've had a number of inquiries, so they are back by popular demand. I'll be expanding the information about them in the coming weeks.
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post #21 of 25 Old 05-04-2013, 09:31 AM
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post #22 of 25 Old 05-04-2013, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed K. View Post

Jay-- as of 5/5/2013, the Clearwave Dynamic 4CCSE and 4TSE kits are now back up on my website. I've had a number of inquiries, so they are back by popular demand. I'll be expanding the information about them in the coming weeks.
Fantastic!

YID DIY
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post #23 of 25 Old 05-05-2013, 06:35 AM
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I am reminded of how much I love mine every time I turn on the stereo.
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post #24 of 25 Old 05-29-2013, 07:53 PM
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Thanks for the kind words Keager!
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post #25 of 25 Old 05-31-2013, 01:09 PM
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If you are having trouble finding the link here it is.

http://www.clearwavespeakers.com/webapps/category/98515/300200/82317

I concur that these are great speakers I have enjoyed them for years. My signature has a link to my build.

T6

Clearwave 4TSE and 4CC build thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19489740
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