clip limiter for ep4000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 58 Old 09-23-2010, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you guys have your clip limiter swtich on or off on your amps?
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post #2 of 58 Old 07-21-2011, 08:58 PM
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I'd like to know what people are doing on this too!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #3 of 58 Old 07-21-2011, 10:03 PM
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Mines off
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post #4 of 58 Old 07-21-2011, 10:27 PM
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I have always wondered that too. I have mine on because off running 2 ohms stereo and I presumed that it would help stop the amp frying.
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post #5 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 03:55 AM
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off

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post #6 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 04:02 AM
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Krypto, I guessed you would do. LOL.

Do you get more out off the amp with it off then?
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post #7 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 04:14 AM
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I dont know if I get more out of it, I don't think I clip very often. When I do, if I hear it, I know to turn it down. I'd like to think having it off keeps the signal more true assuming I dont clip, vs having it on and my dynamics/peaks are simply reduced and I don't know it.

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post #8 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 04:20 AM
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Have you run REW sweeps with it off and on to see how the graph looks when you get to its limits. Just a thought
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post #9 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 04:37 AM
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my subs would bottom before I clip I think, plus I suppose compression would set in too?

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post #10 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 04:53 AM
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My amps never clipped or subs bottomed out. The gets really hot and cuts out way way before any off the above. Bl**dy annoying. Will probably have to revert back to stock fan to know for sure even though the fan I am using is still rated at 34 CFM where the stock one is 54 CFM.
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post #11 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 04:59 AM
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Youre pushing the amp hard enough to thermal protect, yet it never clips?

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post #12 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 05:26 AM
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Yep! Put bassotronics through it or alike and within 5 mins tops bang pop it shuts off for a few seconds. I have never seen one red clip light yet and nor have the drivers exceeded max excursion. I have only tripped the fuse once.

I've got a system I can't even push to its limits. Boo hoo.
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post #13 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 06:04 AM
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shut the clip limiter off once

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post #14 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 06:11 AM
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Quote:


shut the clip limiter off once

?
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post #15 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973 View Post

My amps never clipped or subs bottomed out. The gets really hot and cuts out way way before any off the above. Bl**dy annoying. Will probably have to revert back to stock fan to know for sure even though the fan I am using is still rated at 34 CFM where the stock one is 54 CFM.

Did you leave the fan orientation in stock configuration when you swapped out the fans. I think it might be a mistake to reverse the flow when you lower the CFM. The engineers designed it the odd flow direction they did for a reason. Stock config is intake through the rear, blow directly over the heatsink and outake at the front of the amp through the filter.

I've heard people say it's most quiet when exhausting out the rear with their low cfm fan, but then they've lowered the cfm and made the heatsink exhausting less efficient! Two whammys.

At any rate - I kept the stock fan config oreintation, and just lowered the fan's cfm. My amp runs at 2ohm stereo mode with two JTR captivators and barely gets warm at tolerable volumes after 15 minutes of music playing in home theater duty. It is very nearly silent as well. In the stock config after 15 minutes of playing in the same config it was difficult to feel any temperature increase from ambient on the amp's cover or exhausting air. Both seem to have no problem with both the amp gain knobs maxed on the ep4000 amp and plenty of volume for my home theatre at stereo 2ohm load.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #16 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 06:27 AM
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youre running the limiter on now, no clip lights, no over excursion, but it over heats. to me it's sort of a crossover effect... whenever the amp begins to clip, it does what.... reduces the volume for the duration to keep below clipping? So peaks, transients, are getting compressed? So overall youre running louder... more overall output. Shut the limiter off for a while and see if that doesn't change.

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post #17 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 06:39 AM
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Yep got the mod fan blowing the same way as the stock, blowing out the front and sucking in form the rear. I have tried it the other way and the amp gets hotter even quicker. I know with the JTR's they have a 15hz tune. This happens when I have it in the low tune which is 12hz with no hpf. I am at about 83db calibrated. I still get good output to about 8hz no probs but man when make it drop bassotronics kicks even at about -15db the amp just cries out, please no more! The main issue with my drivers is that they are Dual 1 ohms wired in series to give 2 ohms load. The impedance graph within winisd shows it running below 2 ohms between 10hz and 20hz. I know this is only a model and not wholey true in real life. In the mid (17.5hz) and high (21.5hz) tunes I don't have the same issues.

I can watch a film at very loud levels in the low tune and the amp doesn't get as hot. Its music which kills it.

Another issue may well be the fact that in winisd the optimum box size is 36 cu ft for and old FI Q18 dual 1 ohm and I have them in a 15 cu ft box so when you model a low tune in a 36 cu ft box the impedance is at about 2 ohms. I guess they just are not as efficent in a box that size.

Another reason why I want those poxy blueprint drivers running a single coil BPD-04 as 4 ohms.

Jordan, I will try it to see what happens. I guess that even with the clip limiters off the fuse would still trip if it got too hot.
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post #18 of 58 Old 07-22-2011, 09:05 AM
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I put mine back on a power strip with a breaker for the added protection, well, to stop blowing fuses. I figure I lose some power... more resistance... but owell. Im surprised I havent run REW sweeps, limiter on vs limiter off.

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post #19 of 58 Old 08-04-2011, 08:31 PM
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If you are running the EP4000 in bridged mode with a 2ohm load that is your problem. It is not designed to do that. It says multiple times in the manual nothing below 4ohm in bridged mode. You could run your two ohm load off on stereo channel and you'd be fine for music.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #20 of 58 Old 08-04-2011, 10:29 PM
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Im not running 2 ohms bridged. I am running 2 ohms stereo. The problems arise when in low tune 12.5hz mode and I play bassotronics etc... Im good down to about 7-8hz. I still think the impedance draw when playing low frequencies is below 2 ohms hence why the amp gets hot quick.

Here is a graph in winisd to show my impedance plot. Pink is my (15 cu ft per sub) and white is the optimum size box (36 cu ft per sub). Notice the impedance is better on the bigger box. I could not fit two 36 cu ft boxes in my room hence going to 15 cu ft. You can see that on the pink line between 11 and 20hz mine falls below 2 ohms. Now I know this is not what it will be in the real world but it should give me a reasonable idea.
LL
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post #21 of 58 Old 08-05-2011, 12:54 AM
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The EP4000 has trouble playing single digits in 128 cubic feet, 1000 cubic feet, and even free air. Pop your subs out, set them on the floor, and give it a good excursion at 5Hz. You can't mistake the sound you hear.

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post #22 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 08:02 AM
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after playing with it both ways I think I prefer the clip limiter on. I don't hear any distortion with it on when I see the clip light, with the clip limiter off, I hear distortion when I see the clip lights.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #23 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 06:33 PM
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what the heck are you pushing that you can clip EP4000s! Must be LOUD.

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post #24 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

what the heck are you pushing that you can clip EP4000s! Must be LOUD.

I can clip it no problem with the pod emergence scene
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post #25 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

what the heck are you pushing that you can clip EP4000s! Must be LOUD.

JTR Captivator Pros at 2 ohm.

One Captivator Pro per channel - using stereo mode on the EP4000. Multimeter reads each Captivator at about 1.7 or 1.8 ohm each.

125dB from the listening position with music (10 foot or so away from the subs) just this week when a fellow brought his digital SPL meter over - clean sound, but can't go any louder because clip lights begin staying on steady... :P

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #26 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

JTR Captivator Pros at 2 ohm.

One Captivator Pro per channel - using stereo mode on the EP4000. Multimeter reads each Captivator at about 1.7 or 1.8 ohm each.

125dB from the listening position with music (10 foot or so away from the subs) just this week when a fellow brought his digital SPL meter over - clean sound, but can't go any louder because clip lights begin staying on steady... :P

thats gotta be friggen nuts. 126dB in the van is pretty loud, thats with the mic within a foot or 3.

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post #27 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

I can clip it no problem with the pod emergence scene

running what?

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post #28 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 07:54 PM
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thats gotta be friggen nuts. 126dB in the van is pretty loud, thats with the mic within a foot or 3.

126dB of what, though? 126dB of <100hz bass would be awesome. 126dB of 1khz would have geysers of blood coming out of my eyes and ears.

Btw, I can clip my ep2500 on the pod emergence scene too. I usually keep it a decibel or two lower than that point, if I can. But that is two 18's on one Berry so I'm asking it to do a lot, I guess.


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post #29 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 08:06 PM
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125dB of this song.

Flux Pavillion - Got 2 Know
http://grooveshark.com/#/search?q=fl...ion+got+2+know

Make sure and listen about a minute in when the bass line starts.

Subs running at least 6dB hotter than mains -- and it was apparent from watching the SPL meter it was definately the bass notes that were hitting those peaks.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #30 of 58 Old 08-06-2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

126dB of what, though? 126dB of <100hz bass would be awesome. 126dB of 1khz would have geysers of blood coming out of my eyes and ears.

Btw, I can clip my ep2500 on the pod emergence scene too. I usually keep it a decibel or two lower than that point, if I can. But that is two 18's on one Berry so I'm asking it to do a lot, I guess.

126dB with the front stage, so >100Hz. from 100Hz down its well above that. 150's! 148dB @ 25Hz before with only 1 alt, IB3s, 25Hz tune, clipping to ****. Havent gotten metered since 1803s, havent added the 2nd alt yet, tuning is now 23Hz

I don't think i ever clip the EPs anymore. I did in the towers with music, but not with the manifold.

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