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post #3031 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I would not use the levels settings in the MiniDSP--leave them at zero. I believe a non-zero setting affects the signal-to-noise ratio, which is undesirable. I also wouldn't worry that the sub gain is low. Whatever sub gain achieves the correct level in your calibration software should be fine.
Thanks for this..

I had to change my gain settings on my 2x4 because my bottom end drivers are a little bit more efficient than my test tweeters..

It's all about the magic Beans & sand. Could also be how the heigh of levelling your cables off the floor !
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post #3032 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dashpuppy View Post
Thanks for this..

I had to change my gain settings on my 2x4 because my bottom end drivers are a little bit more efficient than my test tweeters..
BTW, I am measuring .3V out from my balanced 2x4 into the subs, when driving everything with a 50Hz REW test tone at -3dBFS and AVR MV=0. Plenty of signal to drive my ULS-15's.
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post #3033 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
BTW, I am measuring .3V out from my balanced 2x4 into the subs, when driving everything with a 50Hz REW test tone at -3dBFS and AVR MV=0. Plenty of signal to drive my ULS-15's.
Thanks for the info. My AVR has 'Multi Sub EQ' so it has me set both subs to read 75db. I can't get past the screen if I don't do this. Since I also have one far away, if I tried gain matching them then the Audyssey GUI would show up on TV too low... and I believe it would make me raise it. I will try to do it anyway though. Try to get them both the same output. I will also kill the negative trim in mindsp.


Before I did this though, before I even had minidsp... my subs sound weak. I always have to add insane amounts of trim. I just don't get it.


Can anyone who knows how to eq with minidsp share with me what kind of filters would be best to create a house curve?


I want a 10-12 db slope from 100hz to 20 hz.


So far I've only figured out two ways to do it:


1. Low_Shelf_Filter / +10db / Q 0.9 / 70hz- this gives me a a slope up to 30 hz, but it rises too quick... and it also then flat lines all the way off screen to the left. I fear this is pretty bad for the subs? And also might create too much energy down low. I've tried starting this at 100hz.. but again it rises to quick so I have +10 db by 70 hz.


2. Peak_Filter / +10 db / Q 0.12 / 30 hz... this gives me the +10 db at 30 but the slope doesn't go to 100hz.


Doesn't anyone try to do what I'm doing? Create a house curve with mini dsp? Is there a better way?


I do NOT have REW. I have XTZ room analyzer, so I can't set a target curve with REW and export/import the biquad filters or whatever.
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post #3034 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 10:46 AM
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At what point are you to run Audyssey when you 'time align multiple subs with minidsp' ?


In the guide it says step 5 is where you do the actual time align minidsp settings. I'm assuming you run Audyssey prior to this? My AVR has dual sub multi eq... so when I run Audyssey, it is already setting each sub independently where it thinks they should go. So do I do step 5 anyway? Wouldn't this be adding more delay to what Audyssey already added? (although I have noticed Audyssey sets them both to around 12 feet, even though one is only 9 feet).


Or do I run Audyssey prior to step 5 - set the distances to zero in Audyssey - then set the minidisp delays (step 5).
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post #3035 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
At what point are you to run Audyssey when you 'time align multiple subs with minidsp' ?


In the guide it says step 5 is where you do the actual time align minidsp settings. I'm assuming you run Audyssey prior to this? My AVR has dual sub multi eq... so when I run Audyssey, it is already setting each sub independently where it thinks they should go. So do I do step 5 anyway? Wouldn't this be adding more delay to what Audyssey already added? (although I have noticed Audyssey sets them both to around 12 feet, even though one is only 9 feet).


Or do I run Audyssey prior to step 5 - set the distances to zero in Audyssey - then set the minidisp delays (step 5).
If you are following my guide, then you have missed an important point. The purpose of the guide is to explain how to consolidate multiple subs onto one channel, thus eliminating the requirement to use the dual sub outputs of an AVR with Sub EQ HT. The reason I wanted to consolidate everything onto one channel is because I was in the process of implementing a MiniDSP DDRC-88A for a 7.1 configuration, so I only had a single sub channel on the 88A to use. My objective was to achieve the same flat response using the 2x4 as I had been enjoying with Audyssey and Sub EQ HT. I was successful in doing this.

If you continue using the 2x4, then you will only use one of the two sub outputs from your AVR. And you would run room correction AFTER configuring the 2x4, not before.

To be honest, I have lost the train of thought. If you have Audyssey with dual sub outputs and Sub EQ HT, why are you bothering with the 2x4?
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post #3036 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
If you have Audyssey with dual sub outputs and Sub EQ HT, why are you bothering with the 2x4?
I mainly got minidsp to EQ subs, ideally create a room curve with it. I just can't seem to find any posts with ideas for filters to do this. I guess I was thinking maybe manually time aligning them would be better than Audyssey.

It's looking like I might have to go another 2k+ down the rabbit hole for EMO xpa 7 and 88 minidsp. At least I'll have the 2x4 for dual sub integration then.
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post #3037 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I mainly got minidsp to EQ subs, ideally create a room curve with it. I just can't seem to find any posts with ideas for filters to do this. I guess I was thinking maybe manually time aligning them would be better than Audyssey.

It's looking like I might have to go another 2k+ down the rabbit hole for EMO xpa 7 and 88 minidsp. At least I'll have the 2x4 for dual sub integration then.
You are talking about spending $2,500 chasing a problem which I don't think you completely understand yet. There is no reason that capable subs placed appropriately and calibrated using Audyssey XT32 shouldn't sound great.

Many people have been in your situation before, and you need to learn from their experiences. First step is to assess what the issues with your bass are, and the way to do this is by investing in the time and effort to learn how to measure your audio performance using a tool like REW. The measurements will point out the issues. Each type of issue has potential solutions, either in the form of different placements for your speakers and subs, room treatments, or even additional subs.

I guarantee that if you have issues now, buying an 88A and a new power amp are not going to magically fix the underlying issues--you need to understand what they are and develop a plan.

OK, I am done now...
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post #3038 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I mainly got minidsp to EQ subs, ideally create a room curve with it. I just can't seem to find any posts with ideas for filters to do this. I guess I was thinking maybe manually time aligning them would be better than Audyssey.

It's looking like I might have to go another 2k+ down the rabbit hole for EMO xpa 7 and 88 minidsp. At least I'll have the 2x4 for dual sub integration then.
DaveyMac,

Jerry has written a wonderful guide in using REW (see the link in his signature) that you can down load and read at your leisure.

The guide contains a wealth of information that is useful for anyone interested in improving sound quality within your room. The fundamentals of sound reproduction in a room wont change, so the smart thing to do is to investigate what are the issues and deal with them before going down the path of purchasing more expensive equipment that may or may not improve the sound quality within the room.

Reading the guide wont cost you anything and will point you in the right direction.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP(2x4), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8 (on order), HiMedia Q16 (on order).

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post #3039 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 08:15 PM
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Ok I appreciate the advice. You both are probably right. I already went and got some better speakers, thinking that was my issue with mid bass. Apparently it wasn't. I just hate investing in learning REW and getting another mic when I already paid a grip for XTZ room analyzer.

I have spent ungodly amounts of time on these forums and feel I have sub placement and a lot of other factors mastered. I have a flat response after Audyssey. It's just that it doesn't sound like much bass to me unless I increase it over 10db. That's why I was thinking the 88 might solve my problems by adding room curve. Maybe my subs just aren't big enough. They are VTF3 mk5's.

I'll keep screwing around with what I have, and hopefully I'll get it figured out. If not, I'll get another mic and learn REW so I can import a target curve.

But again, since this is a thread on minidsp, which I believe is partly to EQ your subs... If anyone has tips on adding filters for room curve - please share.
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post #3040 of 3051 Old 05-19-2015, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
Ok I appreciate the advice. You both are probably right. I already went and got some better speakers, thinking that was my issue with mid bass. Apparently it wasn't. I just hate investing in learning REW and getting another mic when I already paid a grip for XTZ room analyzer.

I have spent ungodly amounts of time on these forums and feel I have sub placement and a lot of other factors mastered. I have a flat response after Audyssey. It's just that it doesn't sound like much bass to me unless I increase it over 10db. That's why I was thinking the 88 might solve my problems by adding room curve. Maybe my subs just aren't big enough. They are VTF3 mk5's.

I'll keep screwing around with what I have, and hopefully I'll get it figured out. If not, I'll get another mic and learn REW so I can import a target curve.

But again, since this is a thread on minidsp, which I believe is partly to EQ your subs... If anyone has tips on adding filters for room curve - please share.
Isn't REW free ? ( plus donation ) ?

It's all about the magic Beans & sand. Could also be how the heigh of levelling your cables off the floor !
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post #3041 of 3051 Old 05-27-2015, 08:07 AM
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AV Science is now stocking some of the MiniDSP products, such as 2x4 in a box, balanced and un-balanced, 10x10HD and the DDRC-88A.

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post #3042 of 3051 Old 05-27-2015, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
AV Science is now stocking some of the MiniDSP products, such as 2x4 in a box, balanced and un-balanced, 10x10HD and the DDRC-88A.
Some prices ? Didn't find them on your site, very hard to navigate...

It's all about the magic Beans & sand. Could also be how the heigh of levelling your cables off the floor !
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post #3043 of 3051 Old Yesterday, 07:09 PM
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noob question wrt AustinJerry's guide:

ok 2 x 4 unbalanced with a 4 way advanced plug in,
the link is just fine
please clarify/specify .9 or 2.0 v version?

Thank you

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FL/FR: DIYSG Fusion 15's , Center: DIYSG 88 Special , SL/SR: RC3II , SRL/SRR: F-3Towers, TF & TR: SLX
2 30" BF THTLP'S , SUBMAXIMUS, 2 x Inuke6000DSP & 2 driverless LHORN cabs
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-di...rs-subwoofers/
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
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post #3044 of 3051 Old Yesterday, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
noob question wrt AustinJerry's guide:

ok 2 x 4 unbalanced with a 4 way advanced plug in,
the link is just fine
please clarify/specify .9 or 2.0 v version?

Thank you
Not sure I understand the question. My 2x4 is switchable, either .9V or 2V. The procedure was written for a .9V setting.
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post #3045 of 3051 Old Yesterday, 07:36 PM
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thank you
at the website you are given a choice of Rev. A .9v max or Rev. B 2.0 v. max
so to simplify for future guide users: A or B ?

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post #3046 of 3051 Old Yesterday, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
ok 2 x 4 unbalanced with a 4 way advanced plug in,
the link is just fine
please clarify/specify .9 or 2.0 v version?
Do not buy the unbalanced miniDSP 2x4 unless the power amp you're using for the sub(s) has an input sensitivity spec (input voltage required for full output power) is 0.9 Volts RMS or less. Very few pro amps meet this requirement. The maximum output voltage of the unbalanced miniDSP is 0.9 Volts RMS, regardless of the setting of its input sensitivity jumper (0.9 vs. 2.0 Volts). In the former case, it will produce a maximum of 0.9 Volts RMS output for an input voltage of 0.9 Volts RMS. In the latter case, it will produce a maximum output voltage of 0.9 Volts RMS for an input of 2.0 Volts RMS. In this latter case, it is acting as a 7 dB attenuator in the signal path (0.9 Volts RMS out for 2.0 Volts RMS in).
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post #3047 of 3051 Old Yesterday, 08:31 PM
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@ andyc56: Thank you

I've sent an email to the folks at sweetwater.com quoting your advice wrt to knowing the input sensitivity of an amp, in my case the inuke6000dsp, of which I own 2.

Even looking through the manual, strangely enough, on the specifications page of the manual, that info is not to be found!

How can that be?
when I get an answer, I'll report back.

That kinda explains the lack of specification in "the guide" as it can not anticipate which amp you are going to use.

fair enough for that detail in as much the rest of it is "the right stuff"

thanks Jerry

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http://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-di...rs-subwoofers/
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
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post #3048 of 3051 Old Yesterday, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
Even looking through the manual, strangely enough, on the specifications page of the manual, that info is not to be found!
I just looked at it too, and you are right.
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post #3049 of 3051 Old Yesterday, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
I've sent an email to the folks at sweetwater.com quoting your advice wrt to knowing the input sensitivity of an amp, in my case the inuke6000dsp, of which I own 2.
The inuke input sensitivity is 0.775V i think (varies slightly with load iirc) but I believe it is a bit noisy run like that. This means you are better off running a hotter signal into it and then attenuate via its gain knob, ie get the balanced minidsp.
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post #3050 of 3051 Old Today, 09:16 AM
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Updated Plug-in versions

Just a heads up. I noticed a few of my plug-ins have new versions available as of this month. The details mention "New build to fix a compatibility issue with latest Adobe Air update causing the software to not open correctly."
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post #3051 of 3051 Unread Today, 02:18 PM
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ongoing inquiry wrt mindsp
from sweetwater:Hi William. We don't really deal with home stereo applications, so I am not sure I can really answer all of your questions. Those amplifiers are really intended for a live PA aplications. The Denon receiver should already have built-in amplification and appears to have the ability to hook up two subs already. What exactly are you trying to do?

Norb

so I've replied :it was a simple question about input voltage sensitivity wrt full output so I can amp my subs, no compromises wrt to inserting a minidsp in the chain

from a member at AVS ( 3ll3d00d) this morning:The inuke input sensitivity is 0.775V i think (varies slightly with load iirc) but I believe it is a bit noisy run like that. This means you are better off running a hotter signal into it and then attenuate via its gain knob, ie get the balanced minidsp.
back to me: while you are correct about the dual sub outputs on the X5200, they're only outputs, , i.e. unamplified
so in the process of response/room optimization , the minidsp 2 x4 can be part of the chain between the AVR and the inuke.
hence the caveats quoted in my original inquiry.
as it is the avr sub signal drives the inukes very nicely, so it follows to ask about how to chose the right minidsp voltage output capacity wrt to inuke input sensitivity to keep it that way
so in my reporting back to those who helped me, i'll include your question. which seemed not to include an answer, or a recommendation/spec of a voltage sensitivity range
maybe I've oversimplified
and based on the info i quoted today, I will also make an inquiry wrt to bumping the sub gain on the AVR and then attenuating via the gain in the minidsp so I can crank it

I hope that clears things up

thanks to: 3ll3d00d

so, after all that : a mindsp 2x4, advanced 4way plugin, balanced . . . .I hope

I'm exhausted . . .

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , Emotiva UPA7, for 7.3.4 ATMOS/DSU SHARP 80" LED/LCD
FL/FR: DIYSG Fusion 15's , Center: DIYSG 88 Special , SL/SR: RC3II , SRL/SRR: F-3Towers, TF & TR: SLX
2 30" BF THTLP'S , SUBMAXIMUS, 2 x Inuke6000DSP & 2 driverless LHORN cabs
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-di...rs-subwoofers/
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
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