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Old 06-23-2016, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
On advantage of an outboard processor like the 88A is that it makes you processor-agnostic. As long as you have the features in the processor you need, and the right number of outboard amplification channels, whether you are using the 8802A or the 7702 becomes much less important.
This is what i suspected as I have read here on the forum that there is not a big difference (the law of diminishing returns) SQ wise between the 7702MKII and 8802A. It seems from what I have read that the difference with the Dirac would be larger than the difference between these two processors.


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Old 06-23-2016, 08:14 PM
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This is what i suspected as I have read here on the forum that there is not a big difference (the law of diminishing returns) SQ wise between the 7702MKII and 8802A. It seems from what I have read that the difference with the Dirac would be larger than the difference between these two processors.
If both processors were running Dirac Live room correction using the same power amps and speakers, you would be hard pressed to hear a sonic difference, IMO.
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:31 PM
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If both processors were running Dirac Live room correction using the same power amps and speakers, you would be hard pressed to hear a sonic difference, IMO.
I will get to the other thread but I don't have time for the next couple of weeks to read through a gazillion posts so my question is can I set 15Hz HPF filters for all channels and boost the bass in all channels to my hearts content while still enjoying the benefits of Dirac?


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Old 06-24-2016, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
One advantage of an outboard processor like the 88A is that it makes you processor-agnostic. As long as you have the features in the processor you need, and the right number of outboard amplification channels, whether you are using the 8802A or the 7702 becomes much less important.
Can the 88a function as a preamp if your only source was a PC, or something like an Oppo BDP-105? Assuming that you have outboard amplification/dsp.?
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Old 06-24-2016, 05:02 AM
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Can the 88a function as a preamp if your only source was a PC, or something like an Oppo BDP-105? Assuming that you have outboard amplification/dsp.?
The recent upgrade to the 88A bass management allows it to function as a preamp, although it will be missing many of the features of a true preamp.
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Old 06-24-2016, 05:05 AM
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I will get to the other thread but I don't have time for the next couple of weeks to read through a gazillion posts so my question is can I set 15Hz HPF filters for all channels and boost the bass in all channels to my hearts content while still enjoying the benefits of Dirac?
Setting the HPF is not an issue. Boost is limited to 9dB, so if that fits within your definition of boosting to your hearts content, then yes.
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Old 06-27-2016, 03:44 PM
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I would need absolutely no convincing at all however my pocket book tells me another story LOL! I am already well past my budget with my new speakers that have yet to arrive so this is where I will have to draw the line at the $549 level UNLESS I sell my 8802A and purchase the 7702MKII instead, know that's a thought hmmmmm.
Couldn't you shoot even lower on the prepro line?

Just get the lowest you can. Any cheap avr with the number of channels you need

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Old 06-27-2016, 08:37 PM
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Couldn't you shoot even lower on the prepro line?

Just get the lowest you can. Any cheap avr with the number of channels you need

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A receiver based pre-amp/processor is a total waste of not only wall power but the internal amps as well as i already have amplifiers and I wouldn't want to drop any lower in the line than that. Still not sure what I am going to do yet.


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Old 06-28-2016, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rjh65@verizon.ne View Post
A receiver based pre-amp/processor is a total waste of not only wall power but the internal amps as well as i already have amplifiers and I wouldn't want to drop any lower in the line than that. Still not sure what I am going to do yet.
So you'd rather pay more to have the amps removed and otherwise get the same thing?
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Old 06-28-2016, 07:51 PM
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So you'd rather pay more to have the amps removed and otherwise get the same thing?
I would rather save wall power which I pay for and have XLR connections since I own and use all MIT XLR cables.


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Old 06-29-2016, 12:04 PM
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I would rather save wall power which I pay for
Do you have any data to support your contention that high-voltage XLR outputs require less power than idling amps and lower-voltage RCA outputs?

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I own and use all MIT XLR cables.
I'm sorry.

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Old 06-29-2016, 12:33 PM
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By the way, if anyone is considering the 2x4 advanced plugin, it should be noted that the already-low maximum delay of 7.5 msec in the 4-way advanced plugin has been reduced slightly to 7.2 msec in the 2x4 advanced plugin. See video below. The documentation of this plugin says 7.5 msec, so that is apparently wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq05...tu.be&t=22m35s

Edit: If the video appears to hang, just manually drag the slider to 22:35 elapsed time.

Last edited by andyc56; 06-29-2016 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 06-29-2016, 12:50 PM
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Curious why they would do that, as is I need more than the 7.5 in the advanced 21 as it is. What would be the reasoning forn keeping it that low?
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:09 PM
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Curious why they would do that, as is I need more than the 7.5 in the advanced 21 as it is. What would be the reasoning forn keeping it that low?
Maybe they are short of memory or processing power. The 2x4 advanced has an input matrix that the other plugins for the 2x4 don't have. An additional restriction with the 2x4 advanced is that there is a maximum of 5 biquads per channel rather than the 6 of the 4-way.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:00 PM
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Do you have any data to support your contention that high-voltage XLR outputs require less power than idling amps and lower-voltage RCA outputs?


I'm sorry.
Bottom line is I plugged in a meter to measure the wattage draw from each as I have an A/V receiver that I use whenever I am waiting for whatever newer pre-amp/pro i am waiting for arrives and the A/V receiver with the built in amps draws FAR more wattage! It was noticed in my electric bill as it had shot up noticeably during that month that the receiver was in use so that's why i took the meter to it as that's the only change and my suspicion was correct, soon as my pre-amp pro arrived my bill went back down to normal, is that convincing enough for you (as if it matters)? Anyways that's enough of that. As far as cables go in any forum it's a stupid and wasted dialogue to get into(for me and quite a few others), I can get things at dealer cost so it saves me a lot of money so even if I didn't think it made a difference sonically then I could sell it for a profit anyways so, for me, i am a winner either way. It's interesting though because when I do read people getting into these conversations about wire and cable I send them a PM and, for them they believe that they do hear better sound quality with certain higher end cables over others and for whoever thinks they do whether there actually is or not is nobody else s business and they do not have to justify it to anyone, period.


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Old 06-29-2016, 08:12 PM
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Bottom line is I plugged in a meter to measure the wattage draw from each as I have an A/V receiver that I use whenever I am waiting for whatever newer pre-amp/pro i am waiting for arrives and the A/V receiver with the built in amps draws FAR more wattage! It was noticed in my electric bill as it had shot up noticeably during that month that the receiver was in use so that's why i took the meter to it as that's the only change and my suspicion was correct, soon as my pre-amp pro arrived my bill went back down to normal, is that convincing enough for you (as if it matters)? Anyways that's enough of that. As far as cables go in any forum it's a stupid and wasted dialogue to get into(for me and quite a few others), I can get things at dealer cost so it saves me a lot of money so even if I didn't think it made a difference sonically then I could sell it for a profit anyways so, for me, i am a winner either way. It's interesting though because when I do read people getting into these conversations about wire and cable I send them a PM and, for them they believe that they do hear better sound quality with certain higher end cables over others and for whoever thinks they do whether there actually is or not is nobody else s business and they do not have to justify it to anyone, period.
SO what you are saying we both have the same car "BUT" yours is red and mines white BUT yours is better right ?

No difference between Balanced & SE! Unless your going like 100 plus feet.

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Old 06-29-2016, 08:24 PM
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SO what you are saying we both have the same car "BUT" yours is red and mines white BUT yours is better right ?

No difference between Balanced & SE! Unless your going like 100 plus feet.
Dude-wasted and pointless conversation just like the last guy, get back on point to the thread which is miniDSP not cables or balanced vs unbalanced.
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Old 06-30-2016, 04:37 AM
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Dude-wasted and pointless conversation just like the last guy, get back on point to the thread which is miniDSP not cables or balanced vs unbalanced.
+1
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:44 AM
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Dude-wasted and pointless conversation just like the last guy, get back on point to the thread which is miniDSP not cables or balanced vs unbalanced.


Dude, every post in this thread you have posted has been a waste. Talk about calling the kettle black hey !

I put a meter on my amp because I want to consume power /fail !


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Old 07-01-2016, 12:07 PM
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Dude, every post in this thread you have posted has been a waste. Talk about calling the kettle black hey !

I put a meter on my amp because I want to consume power /fail !


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That was answering the last persons question that HE brought up not me. Get OFF IT and back on topic, Don't try and add fuel to keep something going that doesn't belong here, be a man and take the high road. Look at yourself in the mirror objectively if you can and be honest with yourself and admit that this post you created is the waste.Again, get back on topic.
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Old 07-01-2016, 06:15 PM
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Bottom line is I plugged in a meter to measure the wattage draw from each as I have an A/V receiver that I use whenever I am waiting for whatever newer pre-amp/pro i am waiting for arrives and the A/V receiver with the built in amps draws FAR more wattage!
Even taking your assertion at face value, the above text is an example of the slipshod reasoning one generally expects from wire-worshipper types.

You compared an unnamed older AVR to"whatever newer pre-amp/pro." Anyone thoughtful will instantly recognize that as a useless and meaningless comparison. What would actually be interesting is numbers to show comparative in-use energy efficiency of ampless AVR and amp'ed AVR from the same generation, used as a pre-pro. For example Anthem MRX720/1120 vs. AVM60, Yamaha 5100 vs. 3050, Denon 7200 vs. Marantz 8802, etc.

I don't know the answer there (are they materially different in terms of energy efficiency or not?) but my hunch is that the differences are very minor at best.
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:03 PM
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I am looking at the miniDSP 2x4 to better integrate dual subs than the way my Emo XMC-1/Dirac Live Full does, i.e. I want to gain match, time align and run "mono." One of my subs is in the front at the end of a balanced run while the other is connected via single-ended directly to the Emo in the theater rear. Would anyone familiar with the 2x4 recommend I buy the balanced model? Beyond that, I use Rane BB22s for baluns and have some extras use for whichever configuration I settle on.

And beyond that, does anyone have a recommendation for a more "modern" solution for single-ended to XLR/XLR to single-ended than the good ol' transformers in the Balance Buddy?

Now, after reading most of the last 7 mos of this thread, I need to ask if the 7.5 ms delay will be a problem? LCR and one sub pair are 13'-14' from MLP, surrounds 6' away and rear surrounds and second sub pair also ~6' away.

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Old 08-03-2016, 02:10 PM
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I am looking at the miniDSP 2x4 to better integrate dual subs than the way my Emo XMC-1/Dirac Live Full does, i.e. I want to gain match, time align and run "mono." One of my subs is in the front at the end of a balanced run while the other is connected via single-ended directly to the Emo in the theater rear. Would anyone familiar with the 2x4 recommend I buy the balanced model? Beyond that, I use Rane BB22s for baluns and have some extras use for whichever configuration I settle on.

And beyond that, does anyone have a recommendation for a more "modern" solution for single-ended to XLR/XLR to single-ended than the good ol' transformers in the Balance Buddy?

Now, after reading most of the last 7 mos of this thread, I need to ask if the 7.5 ms delay will be a problem? LCR and one sub pair are 13'-14' from MLP, surrounds 6' away and rear surrounds and second sub pair also ~6' away.

Jeff
14' - 6' = 8'

8' delay = 7.1ms, so you are right on the edge of the 2x4's 7.5ms delay limit.

As for which 2x4 to purchase, since you are mixing connection types anyway, I would go for the balanced, simply because it has higher output voltage selections. There have been complaints about the unbalanced 2x4 not having high enough voltages.
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Old 08-03-2016, 03:22 PM
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Thanks, AJ, any thoughts on a digital solution to using transformers to balance/unbalance preamp outputs?

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Old 08-03-2016, 04:35 PM
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Thanks, AJ, any thoughts on a digital solution to using transformers to balance/unbalance preamp outputs?
Sorry, no experience in that area. I am fully balanced throughout.
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Old 08-03-2016, 05:10 PM
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I am a bit unbalanced.

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Old 08-03-2016, 05:15 PM
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Gonna just hop on in here as I have a 2x4 HD coming in the mail and will be attempting to set it up soon. Initially just wanted it for PEQ in the sub frequencies but now that I've read it can do FIR filters, in interested in that as well. Don't really know where to start with that though. Assume I would need to do some REW to see if I have any impulse issues with any of my speakers to begin with. Only problem is that, while I do know how to test for response with REW, I have no idea how to measure impulse.

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Old 08-03-2016, 05:41 PM
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I am a bit unbalanced.
Not surprised in the least...
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Old 08-04-2016, 05:19 AM
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I'm really trying to understand the miniDSP 2x4 HD. So far I've been able to read up on PEQ - so I kind of get that PEQ adjusts gain (+/-) at certain frequencies (or range of frequencies), and the miniDSP 2x4 HD can have 20 separate gain adjustments done on 20 different frequencies or ranges - can someone first tell me if that is right?

Second, at a high level, I understand it can handle more voltage which can help with avoiding clipping. How do I know how much voltage I would actually need? This is important to me because since I'm probably going to just wind up doing PEQ - it could be the difference between the HD and the regular 2x4 for me (even though I already purchased the HD, but I could sell it and get 2x4 if it made sense).

Third, FIR filters help with any impulse issues. I understand this would only really be applicable to the non-subwoofer speakers, but since I use an AVR and have no separate amps for them, I'm guessing I couldn't do any FIR filters for Impulse correction with the HD even if I would benefit from it? Is that right?

Thanks for any help. Just trying to learn this things and what its capabilities are and what those capabilities mean. I'm new to this level of detail in the home theater space.

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Old 08-04-2016, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I'm really trying to understand the miniDSP 2x4 HD. So far I've been able to read up on PEQ - so I kind of get that PEQ adjusts gain (+/-) at certain frequencies (or range of frequencies), and the miniDSP 2x4 HD can have 20 separate gain adjustments done on 20 different frequencies or ranges - can someone first tell me if that is right?

Second, at a high level, I understand it can handle more voltage which can help with avoiding clipping. How do I know how much voltage I would actually need? This is important to me because since I'm probably going to just wind up doing PEQ - it could be the difference between the HD and the regular 2x4 for me (even though I already purchased the HD, but I could sell it and get 2x4 if it made sense).

Third, FIR filters help with any impulse issues. I understand this would only really be applicable to the non-subwoofer speakers, but since I use an AVR and have no separate amps for them, I'm guessing I couldn't do any FIR filters for Impulse correction with the HD even if I would benefit from it? Is that right?

Thanks for any help. Just trying to learn this things and what its capabilities are and what those capabilities mean. I'm new to this level of detail in the home theater space.
Look at Jerry's MiniDSP 2x4 guide for multiple subs through a single output channel. It shows how to measure the voltage from your AVR's sub pre-out with a digital multimeter and can tell what sw trim and MV combo is safe from clipping the MiniDSP for your AVR.

I found my Yamaha clipped (went past 0.9V RMS) at -11MV with sw trim at 0.0dB. Though the Yamahas tend to output less voltage than others.

And in your case, the HD can be configured between 4V and 2V inputs. Output is fixed to 2V, though.
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