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post #3841 of 3862 Unread 03-05-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
XT32 is quite good at equalizing subs on its two outputs. If @raynist can place each sub pair equidistant from the MLP, this approach would work as well. The guide I wrote, and which raynist has been following, was developed when I moved from Audyssey to Dirac Live on a MiniDSP 88A, which has only one sub input.
Unfortunately it would not be possible to make the rear pair equidistant. Seems like a waste of XT32 but oh well......
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post #3842 of 3862 Unread 03-05-2017, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Unfortunately it would not be possible to make the rear pair equidistant. Seems like a waste of XT32 but oh well......
That is why we have 2x4's...
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post #3843 of 3862 Unread 03-06-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bpgunning View Post
Shouldn't be a problem. Route two separate outputs (either from 1 input or 2 inputs) and then you set the crossovers for each one. You'd need a HPF for the one playing >22Hz, and a LPF for the one playing <22Hz.
thanks for helping bpgunning, for only playing 22hz and up...select CROSSOVER tab, under HIGH PASS FILTER SETTINGS: Cut off frequency should be: 22hz. What should i select for Filter Type and should i select Bypass filter?

Thanks
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post #3844 of 3862 Unread 03-06-2017, 10:26 AM
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Filter type will probably depend on what you're looking for, but a good starting point I think is BW filter at either 12 or 24db/oct. You do not want to enable bypass otherwise the filter gets, well, bypassed instead of activated. But you can use the bypass to turn on/off the filter to see how you like the sound.
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post #3845 of 3862 Unread 03-06-2017, 10:46 AM
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Hi all.

I'm currently in the process of upgrading my AVR (RX-A3000 to RX-A3060) along with adding 6 new speakers for Atmos, so I thought now would be a good time to look at also buying a minidsp.

Looking at their website, there's so many different minidsp models, and I feel overwhelmed with all the choices. I don't really want to spend hours and hours trying to find out which model would work best for me, so I'm hoping you could suggest a model.

I see some of the models have Dirac Live, which I've heard is a very good room correction system, but I have no other knowledge or experience with. In fact, I'm not even exactly sure what a minidsp does or how it does it. I'm assuming I would need to use REQ (which I've done in the past), but I'm not sure if that's needed for the models with Dirac Live.

Also, once the measurements have been taken, does the minidsp auto correct to provide a flat response, or does it just have bands that can be manually adjusted? Does Dirac Live auto correct, leaving no manual adjustments necessary?

Also, I see Stereo Analog/Stereo Digital/Stereo DAC I/O for the Dirac Live series, but I have no idea which of those I would need.

BTW, I have 2 subs that are placed up front. Here's my layout:
  • Front L
  • PB12 +
  • Center
  • PB13 Ultra
  • Front R

I haven't done any sub crawls to know that they're in the best position, and the subs will need to stay there because that's where I pre-wired while my house was being built.

Thanks for your help.

PN59D8000 and HW50ES with Elite 120" screen
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3060
Front - CM9, Center - CMC2, Side Surrounds - DS3, Rear Surrounds - CM5, Front/Rear Atmos - B&W CCM663, Subs - PB12+ and PB13 Ultra
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post #3846 of 3862 Unread 03-06-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Unfortunately it would not be possible to make the rear pair equidistant. Seems like a waste of XT32 but oh well......
Not really a waste of XT32 Ray, just a waste of SubEQ HT. You're still getting all of the EQ benefits of XT32.
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post #3847 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post
Hi all.

I'm currently in the process of upgrading my AVR (RX-A3000 to RX-A3060) along with adding 6 new speakers for Atmos, so I thought now would be a good time to look at also buying a minidsp.

Looking at their website, there's so many different minidsp models, and I feel overwhelmed with all the choices. I don't really want to spend hours and hours trying to find out which model would work best for me, so I'm hoping you could suggest a model.

I see some of the models have Dirac Live, which I've heard is a very good room correction system, but I have no other knowledge or experience with. In fact, I'm not even exactly sure what a minidsp does or how it does it. I'm assuming I would need to use REQ (which I've done in the past), but I'm not sure if that's needed for the models with Dirac Live.

Also, once the measurements have been taken, does the minidsp auto correct to provide a flat response, or does it just have bands that can be manually adjusted? Does Dirac Live auto correct, leaving no manual adjustments necessary?

Also, I see Stereo Analog/Stereo Digital/Stereo DAC I/O for the Dirac Live series, but I have no idea which of those I would need.

BTW, I have 2 subs that are placed up front. Here's my layout:
  • Front L
  • PB12 +
  • Center
  • PB13 Ultra
  • Front R

I haven't done any sub crawls to know that they're in the best position, and the subs will need to stay there because that's where I pre-wired while my house was being built.

Thanks for your help.
What speakers do you want to EQ?
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post #3848 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
What speakers do you want to EQ?


Thanks for your response. At this point I'm just wanting to EQ my 2 subwoofers - although if the minidsp would make a big difference on my other speakers compared to YPAO on the RX-A3060 I would consider doing those as well.

PN59D8000 and HW50ES with Elite 120" screen
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3060
Front - CM9, Center - CMC2, Side Surrounds - DS3, Rear Surrounds - CM5, Front/Rear Atmos - B&W CCM663, Subs - PB12+ and PB13 Ultra
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post #3849 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post
Thanks for your response. At this point I'm just wanting to EQ my 2 subwoofers - although if the minidsp would make a big difference on my other speakers compared to YPAO on the RX-A3060 I would consider doing those as well.
The answer depends on your budget. Dirac Live is an excellent room correction solution, but implementing it for an Atmos system is not inexpensive or trivial. The MiniDSP 88A has eight channels. It connects to the pre-out connections from your AVR, and requires external power amplification for each of your connected speakers. And in an Atmos system, which has more than eight channels, two 88A's would be required, and the installation becomes more complex.

An alternative would be an AVR upgrade to a unit with Audyssey XT32. Current generation AVR's with Audyssey will equalize all of your speakers, including two subs. It may be a less expensive and less complex approach to room correction for your entire setup.

If all you want is manual EQ for two subs, consider the MiniDSP 2x4.
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post #3850 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post
Thanks for your response. At this point I'm just wanting to EQ my 2 subwoofers - although if the minidsp would make a big difference on my other speakers compared to YPAO on the RX-A3060 I would consider doing those as well.
For just subs you only need the 2x4. Depending on what amps the subs are you might need the balanced.

If you have external amps for all your speakers the DDRC-88A is really good for the whole set-up. But you have to have all your speakers coming off pre-outs of your AVR and then into an external amp.
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post #3851 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The answer depends on your budget. Dirac Live is an excellent room correction solution, but implementing it for an Atmos system is not inexpensive or trivial. The MiniDSP 88A has eight channels. It connects to the pre-out connections from your AVR, and requires external power amplification for each of your connected speakers. And in an Atmos system, which has more than eight channels, two 88A's would be required, and the installation becomes more complex.

An alternative would be an AVR upgrade to a unit with Audyssey XT32. Current generation AVR's with Audyssey will equalize all of your speakers, including two subs. It may be a less expensive and less complex approach to room correction for your entire setup.

If all you want is manual EQ for two subs, consider the MiniDSP 2x4.
I don't want to do the full Atmos system then! My new AVR (which I actually haven't received yet) has YPAO and is supposed to EQ both subs separately down to 31hz, and allows for manually eq down to 15hz. I'm not sure if the minidsp will gain me anything over YPAO or not.

So you recommended the 2x4, but not the 2x4 hd. The hd is newer, so I'm surprised that you didn't recommend that one. Is the old one better for some reason?

PN59D8000 and HW50ES with Elite 120" screen
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3060
Front - CM9, Center - CMC2, Side Surrounds - DS3, Rear Surrounds - CM5, Front/Rear Atmos - B&W CCM663, Subs - PB12+ and PB13 Ultra
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post #3852 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
For just subs you only need the 2x4. Depending on what amps the subs are you might need the balanced.

If you have external amps for all your speakers the DDRC-88A is really good for the whole set-up. But you have to have all your speakers coming off pre-outs of your AVR and then into an external amp.
My AVR doesn't have balanced connections, but I think I'm just going to eq my powered subs anyway. I didn't realize I needed to have all of my channels powered via an external amp to use the DDRC-88A, but it makes sense now that I think about it, as you'd want to amplify your post eq response.

Why isn't anyone recommending the 2x4 hd? Do you think there would be any benefit to using the minidsp vs the new YPAO?

PN59D8000 and HW50ES with Elite 120" screen
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3060
Front - CM9, Center - CMC2, Side Surrounds - DS3, Rear Surrounds - CM5, Front/Rear Atmos - B&W CCM663, Subs - PB12+ and PB13 Ultra
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post #3853 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post
My AVR doesn't have balanced connections, but I think I'm just going to eq my powered subs anyway. I didn't realize I needed to have all of my channels powered via an external amp to use the DDRC-88A, but it makes sense now that I think about it, as you'd want to amplify your post eq response.

Why isn't anyone recommending the 2x4 hd? Do you think there would be any benefit to using the minidsp vs the new YPAO?
I wrote an article discussing the different incarnations of miniDSP 2x4 (unbalanced, balanced and HD) that summarizes some of the differences, and talks about the pitfalls of the unbalanced non-HD version.
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post #3854 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post
I don't want to do the full Atmos system then! My new AVR (which I actually haven't received yet) has YPAO and is supposed to EQ both subs separately down to 31hz, and allows for manually eq down to 15hz. I'm not sure if the minidsp will gain me anything over YPAO or not.

So you recommended the 2x4, but not the 2x4 hd. The hd is newer, so I'm surprised that you didn't recommend that one. Is the old one better for some reason?
Read Andy's description of the differences. I have the balanced 2x4 and have never had the need to look at the HD version. IMO, you would have been better served with a new AVR that has Audyssey, which in many people's opinion is a better room correction solution than YPAO.
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post #3855 of 3862 Unread 03-09-2017, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post
My AVR doesn't have balanced connections, but I think I'm just going to eq my powered subs anyway. I didn't realize I needed to have all of my channels powered via an external amp to use the DDRC-88A, but it makes sense now that I think about it, as you'd want to amplify your post eq response.

Why isn't anyone recommending the 2x4 hd? Do you think there would be any benefit to using the minidsp vs the new YPAO?
It doesn't matter if your amp isn't balanced, you need the balanced if your amps input sensitivity is over 0.9 V. Most pro amps are over 0.9V. inukes are fine with the unbalanced though. The 2x4 HD is no better for subs than the others and costs twice as much. The 2x4 HD is for an active crossover or for 2 ch EQ.
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post #3856 of 3862 Unread Yesterday, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bpgunning View Post
If the output voltage from the miniDSP exceeds the amp's input sensitivity by a significant margin, then you could be clipping the input of the amp. There's multiple places for clipping to occur and it's best to err on the side of caution with all of them:
- If your AVR/pre-pro MV and sub trim are both high, you could be clipping the sub out signal (what are your input levels like in the miniDSP meter with a 0dBFS input signal?)
- If the output voltage from the AVR is too high for the miniDSP you could be clipping the input of the miniDSP
- If the miniDSP has too much boost you could be clipping its output (doesn't seem to be a problem as you describe above)
- If the miniDSP output voltage is too high for the amp, you could be clipping the input of the amp, or clipping the amp output if the input is not attenuated
Everything is a cascading effect, if the signal gets clipped in any one of those cases then it passes all the way down the line to the sub, and sending the sub a square wave is no bueno. I'd do some testing, particularly at the frequencies where your boost is highest, to check the voltage coming out of the miniDSP to see how it compares to the amp's input sensitivity, and also where the levels are on the miniDSP output meter.
I'm trying to learn more about how to avoid clipping in the signal chain, like the above examples (emphasis were mine).

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It doesn't matter if your amp isn't balanced, you need the balanced if your amps input sensitivity is over 0.9 V. Most pro amps are over 0.9V. inukes are fine with the unbalanced though. .
It's been said many places that the iNukes are also OK with the balanced, but how careful do I have to be about sending nearly double the voltage out (from the balanced MiniDSP) to the iNuke? To be safe, would I have to measure the output of each link in the chain to see if the signal is clipping?

See the very first part of the quote from bpgunning above (bold and underlined). Sending 2Vrms out from the balanced MiniDSP seems like it already puts me at risk, and that's without increasing the sub trim or applying any EQ. I just want to "be a knight and do it right!" (lol, can you tell I have kids?)
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post #3857 of 3862 Unread Yesterday, 12:24 PM
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I have ZERO issues with my iNuke 3000 and balanced MiniDSP. It works awesome, and I don't get any clipping whatsoever
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post #3858 of 3862 Unread Yesterday, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post
I'm trying to learn more about how to avoid clipping in the signal chain, like the above examples (emphasis were mine).



It's been said many places that the iNukes are also OK with the balanced, but how careful do I have to be about sending nearly double the voltage out (from the balanced MiniDSP) to the iNuke? To be safe, would I have to measure the output of each link in the chain to see if the signal is clipping?

See the very first part of the quote from bpgunning above (bold and underlined). Sending 2Vrms out from the balanced MiniDSP seems like it already puts me at risk, and that's without increasing the sub trim or applying any EQ. I just want to "be a knight and do it right!" (lol, can you tell I have kids?)
All you have to do is turn the output to -3 dB on the miniDSP balanced and you will never clip an inuke.
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post #3859 of 3862 Unread Yesterday, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post
…but how careful do I have to be about sending nearly double the voltage out (from the balanced MiniDSP) to the iNuke?
It’s not a problem. Just reduce the iNuke’s input gain knobs to compensate. That’s what they are there for, to regulate the incoming signal and prevent amp’s inputs from being overloaded and clipping.

Regards,
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post #3860 of 3862 Unread Yesterday, 07:38 PM
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Thanks bassment and Wayne!

Wayne, it was your huge guide on gain structure that got me started on this line of thinking a while ago. It was a very interesting read, and a great help in starting to understand this concept. In short... If you say this setup will be OK, that's good enough for me.

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post #3861 of 3862 Unread Today, 04:08 PM
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I have the miniDSP unbalanced to run the sub output to my 4 PC-2000 subs. I ran into the problem of only 7.5ms delays. I see that the miniDSP HD has up to 80ms. Would the HD work the same as the unbalanced as far as sub integration goes? Does the 96khz sampling vs 48khz matter with subs?
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post #3862 of 3862 Unread Today, 05:09 PM
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I have the miniDSP unbalanced to run the sub output to my 4 PC-2000 subs. I ran into the problem of only 7.5ms delays. I see that the miniDSP HD has up to 80ms. Would the HD work the same as the unbalanced as far as sub integration goes? Does the 96khz sampling vs 48khz matter with subs?
It works the same. There was a bug with low freq EQ but I think the newest firmware fixes it. Sampling doesn't mater
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