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post #541 of 2376 Old 08-01-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

both deq and dcx 2496 have shelving filters, which allows you to boost below 20hz as a pseudo L/T circuit. I was currently using 2 of them to extrapolate nicely down to 10hz.

That's fine if it's sufficient for you.

W/the MDSP you can also create parametric and HP filters down to 10 Hz.

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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

Noah, can you link me to where the MDSP does it? still trying to catch up on the ins/outs of this little thing

Sorry, too lazy, but plenty of links in this thread.

Noah
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post #542 of 2376 Old 08-01-2011, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Does it make sense why the jumper set to 0.9V would be louder in output vs 2.0V for a balanced 2x4 kit unit? I've tested this numerous times using different meters and it is roughly a +2-3DB gain when using 0.9V and it even sounds much deeper and louder. When set with the 2V jumper, the miniDSP DB meter barely goes into the green when the receiver is close to reference levels where as with 0.9V setting the DB meter is towards the top-end of the green area.

I have this paired up using a Denon 4311 and 2 EP4000 amp's.

Dumb question I know but I am stratching my head on this one

Think of it this way, when the unit is set to 0.9V input, it will provide the additional gain to turn the single end input level to balanced output level. When the unit is set to 2.0V input, it would not provide any gain to the input as it is supposed to be a balanced 2.0V input.

Mike
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post #543 of 2376 Old 08-01-2011, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

That's fine if it's sufficient for you.

W/the MDSP you can also create parametric and HP filters down to 10 Hz.



Sorry, too lazy, but plenty of links in this thread.

Except it doesn't work quite right below 25hz.
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post #544 of 2376 Old 08-01-2011, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post


Except it doesn't work quite right below 25hz.

I'm about to buy one...can you explain why it doesn't work quite right below 25hz?
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post #545 of 2376 Old 08-01-2011, 06:36 PM
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Because they are affected by math issues with high resolution sampling at low frequencies.

There is a post on their forum I started here:

http://www.minidsp.com/forum/8-softw...equency-ranges

Apparently they are still working on it, almost two months later and no fix yet.
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post #546 of 2376 Old 08-01-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Because they are affected by math issues with high resolution sampling at low frequencies.

There is a post on their forum I started here:

http://www.minidsp.com/forum/8-softw...equency-ranges

Apparently they are still working on it, almost two months later and no fix yet.

Alright I just read the first 3.5 pages and skimmed the rest. It seems that it works fine down to 15hz. Also is this issue down to 10hz present in 2x4 minidsp?
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post #547 of 2376 Old 08-01-2011, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Except it doesn't work quite right below 25hz.

Is the 2x4 affected?

I thought it was just the 2x8.

Noah
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post #548 of 2376 Old 08-02-2011, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Alright I just read the first 3.5 pages and skimmed the rest. It seems that it works fine down to 15hz. Also is this issue down to 10hz present in 2x4 minidsp?

No, it doesn't work fine down to 15hz. Below 25hz is affected. You will not have accurate filters below there.

I believe Ricci said he saw the same problems on the 2x4. I only have the 2x8 which runs at 96khz and makes it even worse. They're supposedly working on a fix, but nothing is available yet.

EDIT: They actually JUST posted a new beta plugin for this. I will give it a try shortly.
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post #549 of 2376 Old 08-02-2011, 05:03 AM
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Looks like they haven't included a new update for the 4-way advanced software as of yet...

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #550 of 2376 Old 08-02-2011, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tszfung View Post

Think of it this way, when the unit is set to 0.9V input, it will provide the additional gain to turn the single end input level to balanced output level. When the unit is set to 2.0V input, it would not provide any gain to the input as it is supposed to be a balanced 2.0V input.

Mike,

Good explanation, I will flick it to 2.0V and just raise the gain at my receiver if need be.
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post #551 of 2376 Old 08-02-2011, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

Yeah, I saw that...thanks Blackoper. Looks like once REW does a sweep and you have your measurements, you play with the filters, export to minidsp.txt, copy & paste it into the miniDSP software, download it......then re-measure and repeat, till happy...... correct?

There is actually an option to load REW file directly into the EQ section of each output in the minidsp. No copy/paste needed. But otherwise yep that's pretty much how I did it. Now I just need to play with polarity and see how that impacts things
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post #552 of 2376 Old 08-02-2011, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

both deq and dcx 2496 have shelving filters, which allows you to boost below 20hz as a pseudo L/T circuit. I was currently using 2 of them to extrapolate nicely down to 10hz.

Noah, can you link me to where the MDSP does it? still trying to catch up on the ins/outs of this little thing


The MiniDSP allows for biquad filters, meaning its only limited to how many filters it can hold. Im not sure what that is. It does real LT circuits and there is no concern about 20Hz any more. IMO, its functionality goes beyond what the DCX can offer.

FWIW,
There seems to be some issues with calculations not being exact for a LT circuit down low. There are some new releases today that might correct those issues.

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post #553 of 2376 Old 08-02-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

What makes zero sense to you? Did you read my other comments that quoted Audyssey's own press release about setting the delay and levels separately then applying EQ filters for both subs as a whole?

If you have ever measured subs you will know that 1 sub will have it's own response curve. When you add another sub to the same system/room the response will change and reflect the combined response of both subs. Add in a third sub and the response changes even more and with placement and delay tweaking you can get a flat response without adding any boosts or cuts to the EQ. EQ should be the last thing added after room treatments and proper location so how can you EQ 1 sub, then the second separately and when there combined response may not need EQ at all? You may knock down a peak at 50hz on the first sub but that peak would have been tamed by the addition of the second sub so your combined response will be off.

That's all true, and I want to reiterate in the strongest possible terms your "don't touch the EQ until you've sequentially set the subs' gain and delay/phase for smoothest upper bass response" point. (I do make an exception for tailoring the low end of each sub so that it can maximally contribute while staying within its presumed linear range.)

But sometimes it's still useful to be able to individually EQ each sub. Necessary? Probably not, on balance, if you can set individual levels and delay/phase. But possibly useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

onth but I noticed when I tried to integrate my ultra LFE subs with my MBM it would calibrate all my subs to a higher roll off of about 30hz.

Given the Audyssey's assumptions, that's what one would expect to happen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

I will need the L/T plugin, as well as the peq plugin, so any cliffs on how this is setup would be appreciated

I think you can only run one plugin at once. The Advanced 4-Way plugin includes two shelf filters, however, so a separate L/T plugin seems redundant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Does it make sense why the jumper set to 0.9V would be louder in output vs 2.0V for a balanced 2x4 kit unit?
I've tested this numerous times using different meters and it is roughly a +2-3DB gain when using 0.9V and it even sounds much deeper and louder. When set with the 2V jumper, the miniDSP DB meter barely goes into the green when the receiver is close to reference levels where as with 0.9V setting the DB meter is towards the top-end of the green area.

Probably the 2.0V mode includes some attenuation on the front end. I noticed the same with my unbalanced unit on a Denon 4308ci, despite the preout voltage. So I run mine in rev. A mode. Haven't noticed any problems from doing so.

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post #554 of 2376 Old 08-04-2011, 08:50 AM
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any updates on the sub 25hz calculation error issue?

ready to buy something, and leaning MDSP, but that worries me....perhaps the DCX is a safer bet at this point?
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post #555 of 2376 Old 08-04-2011, 08:53 AM
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ordered a 8x8 today, just to have more versatility. bought a bunch of xlr panel mounts, pretty much ready to test when it arrives.
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Ok, I read this entire damn thread and am still confused. I am having built two subwoofers with each sub having two MFW 15 drivers in it. Amp is a Behringer 4000 and receiver is denon 4311. Which damn dsp do I get and which plug in? I am a relative newbie to REW and am working on that as well. I also am still confused about the .9v output and 2.0 output. Someone explain it to me like they are talking to their wife! :-)
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post #557 of 2376 Old 08-07-2011, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamerlover View Post

Ok, I read this entire damn thread and am still confused. I am having built two subwoofers with each sub having two MFW 15 drivers in it. Amp is a Behringer 4000 and receiver is denon 4311. Which damn dsp do I get and which plug in? I am a relative newbie to REW and am working on that as well. I also am still confused about the .9v output and 2.0 output. Someone explain it to me like they are talking to their wife! :-)

I have the same setup...you want the balanced mini with the advanced 2way plugin.

This may help...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uptQ...ature=youtu.be
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post #558 of 2376 Old 08-08-2011, 07:39 PM
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Okay, I need some help. The power supply I bought for my Balanced miniDSP is not working properly. I posted on their forum, and trouble shooted it with the DevTeam Moderator to find out the recommended 12VDC - 150mA power supply I bought isn't going to work. They told me to buy a new one. Can someone point me to (link) one they are using for the Balanced miniDSP?
I don't want to keep wasting money on ones that might not work.
Thanks.
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post #559 of 2376 Old 08-08-2011, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocDoc View Post
Okay, I need some help. The power supply I bought for my Balanced miniDSP is not working properly. I posted on their forum, and trouble shooted it with the DevTeam Moderator to find out the recommended 12VDC - 150mA power supply I bought isn't going to work. They told me to buy a new one. Can someone point me to (link) one they are using for the Balanced miniDSP?
I don't want to keep wasting money on ones that might not work.
Thanks.
you need a min 1.5 amp power supply (18 watt)
i bought this recently
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=129-077

also bought a kensington netbook power supply from at&t recently for the low cost of 4 bucks shipped. sold out already.

pretty sure you can find something on ebay as well.

EDIT apologies!! i read wrong, the powersupply i bought is for the 2x8 and 8x8. Your 150ma should work according to their provided data sheet.
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post #560 of 2376 Old 08-08-2011, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post
you need a min 1.5 amp power supply (18 watt)
i bought this recently
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=129-077

also bought a kensington netbook power supply from at&t recently for the low cost of 4 bucks shipped. sold out already.

pretty sure you can find something on ebay as well.

EDIT apologies!! i read wrong, the powersupply i bought is for the 2x8 and 8x8. Your 150ma should work according to their provided data sheet.
It doesn't work. It seams they put 150mA as the bare minimum requirement, but forgot to add that part. I already wasted $18 on it (that included shipping). I just want to find someone that has one hooked up and it is working great that can tell me were to find it. I think the one you linked is too much power for it....Thank you though.
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post #561 of 2376 Old 08-13-2011, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

They actually JUST posted a new beta plugin for this. I will give it a try shortly.

Notnyt, how did it go? interested to know if I should upgrade to this plug in.

explore the music
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post #562 of 2376 Old 08-13-2011, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antripodean View Post

Notnyt, how did it go? interested to know if I should upgrade to this plug in.

the subeq works better, but as far as i know the shelf filters are still messed up and all you can do is a peak with a Q up to 3. It helps, but it isn't quite a full solution. It works well down to 25hz, just below there is where it's wacky. It's a lot better having this now though, you can adjust stuff much more sane than before.
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post #563 of 2376 Old 08-20-2011, 04:13 PM
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Anyone seen a schematic of the basic 2x4 box? Since power supply rails are cited as the reason for the reduced output, I am wondering how hard it would be to use a 12 V supply and rebias the thing to output 2V from the simple unit. Does it regulate the USB supply, or just filter it? I only need the basic box, and hate to get the 2x8 or even mess around with extra patch cables for the 2x4 balanced if there's an easy solution...

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post #564 of 2376 Old 08-20-2011, 04:24 PM
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Don, I think the limitation is that there is nothing (no active stages) after the voltage out of the ADAU1701 and it's limited to 0.9Vrms for 0dBFS so you'd need to add something offboard to increase the gain and level.
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post #565 of 2376 Old 08-20-2011, 04:35 PM
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Ah, rats, but thanks! Didn't catch that was the chip they were using... Have to call up my friends and ADI and razz on them for such a crummy product! At least the stance of miniDSP makes a lot more sense now, since they'd have to add an output buffer.

Do you know what the 2x8 design uses?

Thanks!!! - Don

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post #566 of 2376 Old 08-20-2011, 05:17 PM
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I have seen it mentioned, bit I forgot where and what it is. If I find where I saved the info I'll post it.
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post #567 of 2376 Old 08-20-2011, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocDoc View Post

It doesn't work. It seams they put 150mA as the bare minimum requirement, but forgot to add that part. I already wasted $18 on it (that included shipping). I just want to find someone that has one hooked up and it is working great that can tell me were to find it. I think the one you linked is too much power for it....Thank you though.

Croc, that power supply would work, although it's specs exceed 180 mA, that won't cause a problem, the miniDSP will only draw what it requires.

Al
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post #568 of 2376 Old 08-21-2011, 02:50 AM
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trying to salvage some 3 way speakers with very nice drivers and decent cabinets but the passive crossovers suck (i posted about it in 2010 and ive made very little progress lol)

I have REW and dayton mic so measuring them is no problem, im just trying to figure out what minidsp setup i should buy. 2x8 or two 2x4? If i buy the 2x4 do i have to buy the 4-way EQ for both of them?

Am i missing something on why the 2x8 is $300? is it because of the balanced outs and 96khz? dont really care much about either

edit: if i buy two 2x4, then have a 3 way on each 2x4, can i somehow EQ my subs as well? im unclear on exactly what "4way _______" application does

edit2: $25 shipping!? Hmm, might have to order several of these and then give people $5 shipping over avs forum. They should really get a US distributor

Want to measure your subwoofers? check out my dummies guide for a step by step process to Room EQ wizard
http://polaraudio.blogspot.com/2012/01/calibration.html
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post #569 of 2376 Old 08-21-2011, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Croc, that power supply would work, although it's specs exceed 180 mA, that won't cause a problem, the miniDSP will only draw what it requires.

Thanks for responding Al. I was beginning to wonder if anyone read this thread anymore. I got a 12VDC 500mA power supply and it works well. When they put the spec sheet out they called out a 150mA, so that is what I got. Through discussions with the Devteam, what they meant was a minimum of 150mA so they have changed their spec sheets to reflect that. If you get one between 400-500mA you will be fine. And yes, you are right it will only draw what it requires, so it is better to "have a little left in the tank" so to speak. They explained it like this: Say you have a Ferrari that can go 200 mph, but only need to cruise along at 60 to get where you are going, but you still have the ability to go alot faster if need be. This is how the DSP draws its current needs.

I do have another issue with mine. Through trouble shooting with them, we have determined that mine is defective. The input signal bounces up and down from -74 to -78 like a stopwatch without even a signal connected to it. With a signal attached it does the same thing with the green bar bouncing up and down. I have sent them an email as instructed by the Devteam to process and exchange. I will let you know how that goes.
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post #570 of 2376 Old 08-21-2011, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocDoc View Post

Thanks for responding Al. I was beginning to wonder if anyone read this thread anymore. I got a 12VDC 500mA power supply and it works well. When they put the spec sheet out they called out a 150mA, so that is what I got. Through discussions with the Devteam, what they meant was a minimum of 150mA so they have changed their spec sheets to reflect that. If you get one between 400-500mA you will be fine. And yes, you are right it will only draw what it requires, so it is better to "have a little left in the tank" so to speak. They explained it like this: Say you have a Ferrari that can go 200 mph, but only need to cruise along at 60 to get where you are going, but you still have the ability to go alot faster if need be. This is how the DSP draws its current needs.

I do have another issue with mine. Through trouble shooting with them, we have determined that mine is defective. The input signal bounces up and down from -74 to -78 like a stopwatch without even a signal connected to it. With a signal attached it does the same thing with the green bar bouncing up and down. I have sent them an email as instructed by the Devteam to process and exchange. I will let you know how that goes.

Yeah we are still out here...lurking!

Refresh my memory, which miniDSP, AMP? Were you running a single DTS or 2?

Al
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