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post #1441 of 2467 Old 02-06-2013, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post


I like generating FIR coefficents, while I find calculating IIR coefficients to be tedious.

You are a sick and twisted person, Well done sir.

Sorry to interrupt please continue this awesome discussion I appreciate greatly.
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post #1442 of 2467 Old 02-06-2013, 01:17 PM
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You are a sick and twisted person . . .
Thanks. biggrin.gif I do try . . .
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post #1443 of 2467 Old 02-18-2013, 06:55 PM
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I'm picking up a balanced 2x4. I have two subs now. Will add a couple more later. Which plugin do I need? The 2 way or 4 way Advanced? Not as easy as I thought to find out....

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post #1444 of 2467 Old 02-18-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I'm picking up a balanced 2x4. I have two subs now. Will add a couple more later. Which plugin do I need? The 2 way or 4 way Advanced? Not as easy as I thought to find out....

I think the 2 way because the 4 way is if you have 3 way speakers and a sub. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #1445 of 2467 Old 02-18-2013, 08:46 PM
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The four-way plugin is mono.

I see it this way. If your AVR has only a mono sub output, the mono 4-way miniDSP plugin is a shoo-in. You get individual control of each sub using only the miniDSP.

If your AVR has two independently controllable sub outputs, it's a bit less clear. There is potential convenience to be had from telling the AVR you have only one sub, and controlling individual subs entirely from the miniDSP via the 4-way plugin. But the miniDSP 2x4 has a limited delay range of 0-7.5 msec. So if you have, say, two front subs that are maybe 20 ft. away, and two rear subs that are 5 ft. away, it might make sense to use the two-way stereo plugin, because the 15 ft. difference in distance exceeds what the miniDSP can compensate for. In that way, the two front subs could be driven from one AVR sub channel, split into two in the miniDSP, while the two rear subs could be driven in an analogous way to the fronts from the other AVR sub output and other input channel of the miniDSP (also split into two). The advantage of the latter approach is that the wide delay range of the AVR could make up for the large difference in distance between the front and rear sub pairs that may exceed the capability of the miniDSP to do so.
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post #1446 of 2467 Old 02-19-2013, 12:22 PM
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hmmm. none of the subs wold ever be more than 10 feet from the MLP. not sure if that works or not, but it sounds like the 4 way is the smart choice for me.

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post #1447 of 2467 Old 02-19-2013, 12:46 PM
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Sounds like it would work fine then. The 7.5 msec delay limitation of the miniDSP 2x4 shows up as follows:

Speed of sound = 1126 ft/sec = 1.126 ft/msec
7.5 msec translates into 8.445 feet

So the maximum difference in distance from each sub to the listening position that the miniDSP could compensate for would be 8.445 feet. In practice, you'd set the delay of the most distant sub to 0 in the miniDSP, then set the sub distance in the AVR for best integration of the most distant sub with the mains. Then the closer subs might need some delay in the miniDSP.
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post #1448 of 2467 Old 02-19-2013, 01:42 PM
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Thank you.

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post #1449 of 2467 Old 02-22-2013, 08:51 AM
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can someone point me to the correct L/T spreadsheet for the advanced biquad plugin?

or perhaps a tutorial on how to set the stupid shelving filter up for L/T? biggrin.gif


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post #1450 of 2467 Old 02-22-2013, 11:13 AM
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http://www.minidsp.com/applications/advanced-tools/advanced-biquad-programming

Bottom of the page.


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post #1451 of 2467 Old 02-22-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:

thanks!

much appreciated


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post #1452 of 2467 Old 02-23-2013, 08:09 AM
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ok, I think I messed up with the purchase of the plugin (thanks a lot scott! mad.gif )... I wanted to get the capability of "stereo" sub calibration, but it's showing up as a single input.
I got the advanced biquad, but I suppose I should've gotten the 2.1 plug in, right?


I assume I should've gotten something else, no?


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post #1453 of 2467 Old 02-23-2013, 10:05 AM
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http://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins

Which plugin did you get? The 2.1 on the right hand side is likely the one you'd want for sub(s) EQ.


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post #1454 of 2467 Old 02-23-2013, 04:35 PM
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thanks for the PM nube! wink.gif




ok, so I'm having some connectivity and performance issues so far:

1. input 2 is really REALLY low compared to input 1. At least a good 6dB difference... I checked my minidsp setup and made sure no gains where put, and even restored defaults and same thing happens.

2. overall, the inputs are far lower than without the device in the chain! Coming from the av8801 output (XLRs) to the minidsp and then to amps is 10db lower almost, but when I took it out of the chain, gains were back...what gives? I guess I should open it and make sure the input sensitivty pot is working, etc.

3. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but when I enter the EQ's into the mini, the effects are not there much. As an example, I added a filter at 40hz, with a Q of 2, and gain of 10dB, and it barely moved the REW trace.


I'm stumped...I'll retry tomorrow rolleyes.gif


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post #1455 of 2467 Old 02-23-2013, 07:40 PM
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Question that is a bit off-topic: can someone briefly explain what the miniDSP would offer over-and-above the DSP that is built-in to the iNuke DSP amplifiers from Behringer; specifically with regards to use with a subwoofer.

I understood I could use a miniDSP with a non-DSP capable amplifier, but I was trying to understand if the miniDSP offered more features; I'm kind of green in this area, so I just wasn't totally clear.
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post #1456 of 2467 Old 02-23-2013, 08:15 PM
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Line by line, I don't know all the differences. But the iNuke lack eq applications under 20hz, where the Mini goes to 10hz.


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post #1457 of 2467 Old 02-24-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baniels View Post

Line by line, I don't know all the differences. But the iNuke lack eq applications under 20hz, where the Mini goes to 10hz.

That, as well as the miniDSP having the ability to input proper Linkwitz Transform functions to any frequency range through the biquad programming functions, which is absolutely critical if you're using sealed subs.


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post #1458 of 2467 Old 02-24-2013, 01:13 PM
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There's a very good thread in the diyaudio miniDSP forum about the erroneous measured behavior of the level meters in the miniDSP plugin software. It also has some good info regarding dynamic range considerations with the device, especially as it relates to filters implementing a signal boost (such as the Linkwitz Transform).
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post #1459 of 2467 Old 02-25-2013, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

ok, I think I messed up with the purchase of the plugin (thanks a lot scott! mad.gif )... I wanted to get the capability of "stereo" sub calibration, but it's showing up as a single input.
I got the advanced biquad, but I suppose I should've gotten the 2.1 plug in, right?


I assume I should've gotten something else, no?

Geez. Sorry, Sherv. The hardware supports 2ch input and nobody ever mentioned that it couldn't do stereo in's before using that plugin. I thought it did. Sorry for the bad advice. redface.gif


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post #1460 of 2467 Old 02-25-2013, 10:19 PM
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Need some help guys. I have the 10x10hd and am using analog input 1 and analog output 1 with no luck. It is acting like a passthru only. No PEQ setting will affect my graphs. There are three settings on the front display, AES, toslink, and spdif. Is there a certain one for using the analog inputs and outputs? And what is the sync for.

I've saved and loaded the setttings to 1 and have that light lit up on the display but am now stuck. I didnt do anything other than save and load the file before disconnecting it from the cpu before running test graphs. They are the same as without the dsp in the loop.
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post #1461 of 2467 Old 02-25-2013, 10:35 PM
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sync it first then change the settings and then it will apply them to the dsp right now your just useing the default settings.
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post #1462 of 2467 Old 02-25-2013, 10:46 PM
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Thank you! Found video lol.
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post #1463 of 2467 Old 02-26-2013, 01:43 AM
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What are the pros and cons of using the input and output gains? I am trying to make the subs a little hot after all the EQing and now would just like to turn them up. If I turn the gain on the amps up I introduce noise but if I turn the dsp gains up I dont. Like right now I have input 1 up 4db and output 1 up 6db.

I have cut more during the EQing more than boosting but did have to boost at 30hz for a suckout. I have ample driver and amp to handle the boost but would like to use the gain feature if no ill effects are caused by doing so.
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post #1464 of 2467 Old 02-26-2013, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Geez. Sorry, Sherv. The hardware supports 2ch input and nobody ever mentioned that it couldn't do stereo in's before using that plugin. I thought it did. Sorry for the bad advice. redface.gif

no worries, I'm putting it on sale anyway.


anyone interested in a almost-brand-new miniDSP 2x4 balanced, with 2 plugins, and "free" phoenix-XLR connectors, pm me.


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post #1465 of 2467 Old 02-26-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

no worries, I'm putting it on sale anyway.


anyone interested in a almost-brand-new miniDSP 2x4 balanced, with 2 plugins, and "free" phoenix-XLR connectors, pm me.
man mine just shipped last night hah.

question, so for the 2x4 balanced,

i have 2 sub inputs, and need 4 sub outputs, 2 of them are for subs, the other 2 are just buttkickers

would any of the plugins work, i wanted it for the compact size

but if not, i'll use the 10x10 i have sitting around.
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post #1466 of 2467 Old 02-27-2013, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

no worries, I'm putting it on sale anyway.


anyone interested in a almost-brand-new miniDSP 2x4 balanced, with 2 plugins, and "free" phoenix-XLR connectors, pm me.

I'm glad you're not mad. redface.gif Sorry again for the bad call.

I do, however, know a whole lot more about the DCX and I think if the MDSP wasn't working for you then the DCX would be perfect for you. It pretty much does everything the DEQ did but more. Also with three inputs (with summing) and six outputs you will have a ton of flexibility with your four subs with room to expand beyond that. Also, the voltage in/out on it is much more robust and capable of very hot signal(s) to an amp.


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post #1467 of 2467 Old 02-28-2013, 09:10 AM
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so just to confirm, for the 2x4

if i plan to do this, will it work ?

receiver with .2 sub outputs

output 1 from receiver to input 1
output 2 from receiver to input 2

subs connected to output 1,2,3,4 of minidsp

i have 2 danley dts-10s i need to apply some filters to, and wanted to keep them .2 for audyssey

i have 2 serial chains of buttkickers that in need to apply a high cut filter to.
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post #1468 of 2467 Old 02-28-2013, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

so just to confirm, for the 2x4

if i plan to do this, will it work ?

receiver with .2 sub outputs

output 1 from receiver to input 1
output 2 from receiver to input 2

subs connected to output 1,2,3,4 of minidsp

i have 2 danley dts-10s i need to apply some filters to, and wanted to keep them .2 for audyssey

i have 2 serial chains of buttkickers that in need to apply a high cut filter to.

Which AVR? Does it have subEQHT? If not the two outputs at the AVR are the same as a Y splitter so it doesn't matter. If you have subEQHT it matters how you hook it up.
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post #1469 of 2467 Old 02-28-2013, 03:53 PM
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Since my denon 4311 has subeqht should I use two separate rcas for my left and right subs? Right now I have a y splitter running to my separate amps. Two amps for the subs.
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post #1470 of 2467 Old 02-28-2013, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Since my denon 4311 has subeqht should I use two separate rcas for my left and right subs? Right now I have a y splitter running to my separate amps. Two amps for the subs.

Are you using a minidsp? Do you have measurement gear? Do your subs match?

It's kinda up to you. Do you want to set distance/delay on the AVR or minidsp. How do you want to fine tune the trims?

I would
-Gain match my subs if they match
-Determine best location for subs based off a raw(no audyssey no minidsp) FR plots trial and error from available locations
-hook in the minidsp as a passthough doing nothing, continue to use the 2 subs outs from the SubEQHT AVR
- Run audyssey to get the distance and level really close, look at the FR graphs
- See if you can improve the transition area by tweaking delay on the minidsp
- Save best graph so far
- Turn audyssey off, Make FR plot as good as possible with minidsp. Try their auto correction, try a bunch of stuff, hopefully educated trial and error and a bunch of research on good vs bad EQ techniques. Too many filters bad, less is more, boosting bad for head room is a myth, cutting has the same impact. Don't make big boosts. You can't boost your way out of a true null
-Save best plot like that
-rerun audyssey
-measure, is this the best yet?
-enjoy, think about what can be better based on what you learned, tweak when you have time if you enjoy that sort of thing.


I have seen folks not use the SubEQHT once they have measurement gear and a minidsp like gadget. If you use one sub out you get the distance on the AVR right for the furthest sub and add delay via minidsp to the closer sub to optimize the FR of the transition region.
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