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post #2791 of 2815 Old 01-18-2015, 08:21 PM
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Sub placement should always be the first step. It is a set and forget deal, and doesn't change unless you change room dimensions.
Moving a sub changes FR, delay, room mode excitement etc, so it's pointless making any adjustments (delay, EQ), until the subs are in position.
When you have delay control, equal distance from the listening position is pointless. Place the subs where they perform best (FR, decay), one sub at a time.

Once each subs placement has been optimized, now we want to make sure that signals from the subs arrive at the listening position at the same time. Adjust delays.

Once the subs have been placed, and the delays have been set, then combined measurements can be undertaken. Not before, you're wasting your time.
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post #2792 of 2815 Old 01-19-2015, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post
I read the guide quickly and thought I would comment on my own preference. I do a couple of the steps in different order:

- Set up the MiniDSP
- Using REW measurements, optimize sub placements
- Measure sub physical distances and set delays in the MiniDSP
- Gain-match the subs
- Run room calibration
- Measure sub response, calculate and apply EQ filters (optional)
- Determine(Maximize) gain structure
You guys are touching on what I alluded to in this post. The problem is that you can't optimize the placements without adjusting the delays so those steps are hard to separate. Its kinda a chicken or the egg situation.

The only other criticism that I would add is that I like to do Final EQ after Audyssey. I like to have the final say on the FR. Audyssey can get some things wrong especially with respect to integration of subs and mains. I have heard of two camps though, some like to run room correction over final EQ, I like to EQ over Audyssey with measurements so I have control of house curve, delay(s), and gains.

Gain structure should ALWAYS be last IMO, after all EQ and room correction.
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post #2793 of 2815 Old 01-19-2015, 01:52 PM
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I have a related question.
When you are measuring "physical distances" are you measuring from MLP to speaker as the crow flies, or are you measuring the length of the wiring?
These are two very different things in my setup because I run my wiring through the attic and into a closet.
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post #2794 of 2815 Old 01-19-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
I have a related question.
When you are measuring "physical distances" are you measuring from MLP to speaker as the crow flies, or are you measuring the length of the wiring?
These are two very different things in my setup because I run my wiring through the attic and into a closet.
Delays are for sound. Sound travels through the air. So the answer is, as the crow flies.
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post #2795 of 2815 Old 01-20-2015, 04:17 AM
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Quick question on setting the proper delays. How do you know what to set it at, and what measurements should be used for this process?

It is my understanding that you start by measuring the physical distances from the MLP to the subs, one at a time, then run a frequency response measurement and adjust delay in 10ms increments until you get the smoothest line in the FR chart. Do this for each sub individual sub, which can be up to four subs if using a standard 2 by 4 MiniDsp or two subs if you are using an iNukexxxxdsp.

Does that sound like the proper method of setting delays?
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post #2796 of 2815 Old 01-20-2015, 06:43 AM
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Denon x4000 - Balanced MiniDSP .9v or 2.0v

Hello, I have a Denon AVR-X4000 and a Balanced 2x4 MiniDSP.
Does anyone have this same set-up and can tell me what voltage jumper setting to use since I have a choice of .9v or 2.0v? I'm thinking .9v is the right choice but wanted to know from experienced users.
Thanks,

-Tom
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post #2797 of 2815 Old 01-20-2015, 06:50 AM
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Using 2.0v setting with a Marantz AV7005 and a balanced MiniDSP.

Mike
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post #2798 of 2815 Old 01-20-2015, 07:31 AM
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2v is what you want. Ideally higher would be better but not an option.
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post #2799 of 2815 Old 01-20-2015, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Quick question on setting the proper delays. How do you know what to set it at, and what measurements should be used for this process?

It is my understanding that you start by measuring the physical distances from the MLP to the subs, one at a time, then run a frequency response measurement and adjust delay in 10ms increments until you get the smoothest line in the FR chart. Do this for each sub individual sub, which can be up to four subs if using a standard 2 by 4 MiniDsp or two subs if you are using an iNukexxxxdsp.

Does that sound like the proper method of setting delays?
The method of calculating and setting delays is explained in the guide linked in my sig.
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post #2800 of 2815 Old 01-20-2015, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
Hello, I have a Denon AVR-X4000 and a Balanced 2x4 MiniDSP.
Does anyone have this same set-up and can tell me what voltage jumper setting to use since I have a choice of .9v or 2.0v? I'm thinking .9v is the right choice but wanted to know from experienced users.
Thanks,
To be sure, you need to measure output voltage from the sub out connection from the AVR using a MultiMeter. The procedure is described in the guide linked in my sig.
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post #2801 of 2815 Old 01-20-2015, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
To be sure, you need to measure output voltage from the sub out connection from the AVR using a MultiMeter. The procedure is described in the guide linked in my sig.
Thanks Jerry, I will run the test. I was hoping someone might have the same set-up and what they came up with.

-Tom
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post #2802 of 2815 Old 01-20-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
Thanks Jerry, I will run the test. I was hoping someone might have the same set-up and what they came up with.
In my case, with a Denon 4520, I measured an output voltage of 1.7Vrms when the sub channel trim was zero. As I dialed back the trim, I achieved .9Vrms at a trim of -4.5. So, I adjusted the gains on my subs so that after an Audyssey calibration, the sub channel trim was exactly -4.5, which assured me that the input on the 2x4 was not exceeded (with it set to .9Vrms, of course). It took a bit of trial and error to get the Audyssey result on target.
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post #2803 of 2815 Old 01-24-2015, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
In my case, with a Denon 4520, I measured an output voltage of 1.7Vrms when the sub channel trim was zero. As I dialed back the trim, I achieved .9Vrms at a trim of -4.5. So, I adjusted the gains on my subs so that after an Audyssey calibration, the sub channel trim was exactly -4.5, which assured me that the input on the 2x4 was not exceeded (with it set to .9Vrms, of course). It took a bit of trial and error to get the Audyssey result on target.
Couldnt you adjust the input gain level from the minidsp software? Instead of avr? I have the 2v one and i see it worked both ways or is there something wrong doing that way?
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post #2804 of 2815 Old 01-24-2015, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumMafia05 View Post
Couldnt you adjust the input gain level from the minidsp software? Instead of avr? I have the 2v one and i see it worked both ways or is there something wrong doing that way?
You really want your input level on the MiniDSP to be set to unity to maximize signal-to-noise ratio. That is why doing it in the AVR is preferred.
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post #2805 of 2815 Old 01-24-2015, 12:36 PM
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So we use a test tone of -3db?i been using -0db 40hz i use setting my gains on my car amplifiers(listen to alot of decaf music) At 0db on my avr set at 0db sub trim im spot on with my avr 2112ci. With a 0db test tone though.
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post #2806 of 2815 Old 01-24-2015, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumMafia05 View Post
So we use a test tone of -3db?i been using -0db 40hz i use setting my gains on my car amplifiers(listen to alot of decaf music) At 0db on my avr set at 0db sub trim im spot on with my avr 2112ci. With a 0db test tone though.
The test tone is from REW's tone generator. The generator output is set to -3dBFS, which is its maximum setting. The AVR MV is set to 0, and the channel trim is set to 0.
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post #2807 of 2815 Old 01-24-2015, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The test tone is from REW's tone generator. The generator output is set to -3dBFS, which is its maximum setting. The AVR MV is set to 0, and the channel trim is set to 0.
So ill be fine with the 0db test tones. Thanks
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post #2808 of 2815 Old 01-24-2015, 03:03 PM
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Hopefully someone can help me figure this out..............I have a Open-drc AN


I ran some REW measurements today and something isn't right. Before doing the measurements I put the Mini-dsp into bypass, so that the 6db shelf I put on wouldn't come through in the measurements. After the sweep I went back into the mini and turned the bypass off, so that the shelf would now show......but when I looked at the graphs, when the mini is in bypass the shelf is there and when it isn't in bypass the shelf is not??

The blue line is with the mini in bypass, and the purple is with it not in bypass. They should be opposite, I'm confused . Am I using the bypass button the correct way?
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post #2809 of 2815 Old 01-24-2015, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You really want your input level on the MiniDSP to be set to unity to maximize signal-to-noise ratio. That is why doing it in the AVR is preferred.

By saying unity you mean have the input level maxed out? My AVR has hot sub outs, I have measure up to 5v with a multi meter. Knowing about the hot sub outs I got the Open-drc since it will take up to 8v on the input. In my case should I still max out the input?

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post #2810 of 2815 Old 01-24-2015, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post
By saying unity you mean have the input level maxed out? My AVR has hot sub outs, I have measure up to 5v with a multi meter. Knowing about the hot sub outs I got the Open-drc since it will take up to 8v on the input. In my case should I still max out the input?
As far as I know, yes. Why would you reduce the input level? It he Open-DRC accepts up to 8V, then the 5V AVR output is not overloading the input.
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post #2811 of 2815 Old 01-25-2015, 05:42 AM
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The method of calculating and setting delays is explained in the guide linked in my sig.
I

Can you then tell me where in the guide you explain how to measure, adjust, and optimize the phase of the subs and the LCR's? I have read your guide before in the past and still didn't fully grasp how to measure, adjust and optimize the phase of my subs and mains. Perhaps you could break it down into a little more detail? It's been a while since I have read the info in your signature guide.
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post #2812 of 2815 Old 01-25-2015, 06:15 AM
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Phase isn't the easiest thing to work with. Look for the smoothest frequency response through the acoustical crossover point instead.
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post #2813 of 2815 Old 01-25-2015, 07:34 AM
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v

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Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
I

Can you then tell me where in the guide you explain how to measure, adjust, and optimize the phase of the subs and the LCR's? I have read your guide before in the past and still didn't fully grasp how to measure, adjust and optimize the phase of my subs and mains. Perhaps you could break it down into a little more detail? It's been a while since I have read the info in your signature guide.
I don't recall addressing phase in my guide. It is well documented elsewhere that phase can be optomized by observing the smoothness of the splice between the main speakers and the sub(s) with a measuring tool like REW, and then varying the sub(s) distance to achieve the smoothest splice.
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post #2814 of 2815 Old 01-25-2015, 08:37 AM
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The simplest way is to invert the polarity, look for the deepest null then flip it back.
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post #2815 of 2815 Unread Today, 04:19 AM
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I have a few questions for those who have used the minidsp PWR-DSP1 plate amp. Are you happy with it? Did you follow the installation manual recommendation for the clearance for cooling at the rear of the unit? Im wondering how critical that is, as it has the heat sink external. I would love to see your photo's of the amp in a finished sub as this seems a very scarce application.

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