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post #1 of 2467 Old 10-05-2010, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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So I decided to buy it and I have it on my desk. I bought the one that came assembled but I realize it does not come with power. I did ask for the DC power option, which is just a terminal block (5 to 12VDC), Can I just take one of the 100 old 12V plugs I have lying around???



Its this one
http://www.minidsp.com/images/docume...02x4%20Box.pdf

Now, I know its powered over USB but I didnt think i needed a PC with it at all times.

Damn slick little box though if I can get this working even close to the DCX Im going to be very happy!!


UPDATE : Here are some links to cables or how to make a cable for the balanced minidsp.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...dsp-howto.html
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post #2 of 2467 Old 10-05-2010, 01:11 PM
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Hell yeah! Now that is a sweet little gadget right there. Very cool! Nice find, Penn.

I could use two of these in place of a DCX for three channels. Hmmm... Please, Penn, give this a good thorough looking over when you get it. I am very interested to see how this one works out.


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post #3 of 2467 Old 10-05-2010, 04:42 PM
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Think that is all it will take - make sure that the voltage is right (not all 12 volt wall warts put out 12 volts - I have measured 15!!!) and that you get the polarity right, things should be fine.

I've been looking at these too - very interested in your thoughts.

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post #4 of 2467 Old 10-05-2010, 05:17 PM
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I just powered mine through usb with an old phone charger I had.
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post #5 of 2467 Old 10-05-2010, 05:48 PM
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You beat me to it Penn. Looking forward to your review.
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post #6 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 03:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monger View Post

I just powered mine through usb with an old phone charger I had.

Duh!!! Great point. Thanks!

Do you have any opinions on the product?

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post #7 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 04:52 AM
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I just placed an order for one 2 days ago to EQ my subs. I debated over this and the DCX2496 for a while. One thing I wish was changed is that the max delay is only 7.5 ms, which isn't long enough to time align a THT with non horn loaded subs. I still bought it because I can loop one output from the DSP to the 2nd input and delay it more. It also looks pretty easy to work with.
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post #8 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 09:37 AM
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We got to play with one over the w/e at a friend's house, just using it as an EQ for his fullrange (3 way) speakers. This was the cased version. Not a bad unit and the PC interface is a bit klunky to use.

It's not as powerful as the DCX, and I wouldn't swap any of mine for one, but I did consider one for the subs at one stage.
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post #9 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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yeah, playing around a bit with the software. Definitely some limitations, I can not put my delays in that I have in the DCX so comparisons will take time because some of my speakers XO numbers will need modification

I really have wanted an RCA solution for my better room though, Im hoping to get decent XOs for a on-wall ribbon 2-way I have to do soon. The MT will already have a passive XO all I need is the MiniDSP to handle the 300Hz XO to a small box that has 2 6.5" drivers from Kevin Haskins in it.

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post #10 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I got the Parameters figured out. Its actually a powerful little device.

So far I have it doing all the settings I had in my DCX.

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post #11 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 01:32 PM
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Sweet! Good to hear.

Penn, real quick one for you... how low (or high, even) in frequency can you modify with this dsp? Could you do any filters below 20hz?


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post #12 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Could you do any filters below 20hz?

It doesn't operate below 20Hz but I have made this request to MiniDSP. I think if enough people ask it will become a part of the firmware.

explore the music
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post #13 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 02:06 PM
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How low can the EQ go? I want to notch out a peak at around 13hz. Based on what I see in the manual, my Behringer ultracuve2496 can only go to 20hz.


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post #14 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 02:12 PM
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Won't it take two to do what a DCX does?

Costs the same w/o a lot of the DCX's features, no, in particular the display?

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post #15 of 2467 Old 10-06-2010, 02:25 PM
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Yeah, I probably wouldn't replace a DCX for these. At least, not in every situation. I figured it could be useful for a dedicated LFE dsp if I were using a DCX for LCR crossover duty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antripodean View Post

It doesn't operate below 20Hz but I have made this request to MiniDSP. I think if enough people ask it will become a part of the firmware.

Good stuff! Hope to see it pop up as a new feature in an update soon.


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post #16 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Won't it take two to do what a DCX does?

Costs the same w/o a lot of the DCX's features, no, in particular the display?

The DCX has 3 inputs and 6 outputs so its 1.5 times more and it depends if people just have 2 2-ways or more then that!


The DCX isnt exactly perfect, it increases noise levels because its a pro audio device that runs the outputs extremely hot compared to comercial options. (see the long DCX thread in diyaudio). s, AX9 and I disagree but my pink noise tones on my ribbons and my Compression drivers show the increase so I do not care about any subjective opinion.

The DCX also does not have RCA in and out. RCA to XLR has issues so a nice clean RCA to RCA solution is always nice to have.

There is no doubt the DCX is a functionally superior (but not that superior considering I can put my complete XO in the DSP too), its nice to just have dials on the front to do quick listening tests and compare differences (love the compare button). It also has a nice easy to use store and recall functionality. Everything for the Minidsp is done on computer so to switch XOs takes a little more time. Comparisons are almost impossible.

We can hide the Minidsp when its all setup. The DCX sits out like any gly pro gear ith rack ears. It does not look good on a glass shelf with more "WAF" products.

I have not compared the SQ of either yet. That is going to be subjective anyways. There are many, many out there that think the DCX unmodded sounds like crap and Im not one of those so subjectivity will be completely based on the individual.

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post #17 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

The DCX has 3 inputs and 6 outputs so its 1.5 times more and it depends if people just have 2 2-ways or more then that!


The DCX isnt exactly perfect, it increases noise levels because its a pro audio device that runs the outputs extremely hot compared to comercial options. (see the long DCX thread in diyaudio). s, AX9 and I disagree but my pink noise tones on my ribbons and my Compression drivers show the increase so I do not care about any subjective opinion.

The DCX also does not have RCA in and out. RCA to XLR has issues so a nice clean RCA to RCA solution is always nice to have.

There is no doubt the DCX is a functionally superior (but not that superior considering I can put my complete XO in the DSP too), its nice to just have dials on the front to do quick listening tests and compare differences (love the compare button). It also has a nice easy to use store and recall functionality. Everything for the Minidsp is done on computer so to switch XOs takes a little more time. Comparisons are almost impossible.

We can hide the Minidsp when its all setup. The DCX sits out like any gly pro gear ith rack ears. It does not look good on a glass shelf with more "WAF" products.

I have not compared the SQ of either yet. That is going to be subjective anyways. There are many, many out there that think the DCX unmodded sounds like crap and Im not one of those so subjectivity will be completely based on the individual.

Summed up very well, Penn. Thank you. I too like the clean RCA -> RCA connectivity over the DCX. I like both of these for different reasons. Great prices on both make the choice on either much easier. I'll still probably get the DCX first for serious LCR duty but I wanna try one of the little dsp's too. It's sooo cute!


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post #18 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antripodean View Post

It doesn't operate below 20Hz but I have made this request to MiniDSP. I think if enough people ask it will become a part of the firmware.

Here's a reply I got from their forum:

http://www.minidsp.com/support/forum...ncy-range#1162

and the biquad programming link:

http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...ad-programming

Anyone know how to do biquad programming?


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post #19 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 10:24 AM
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That is a nice feature.
You don't seem to have to do any really programing, you just have to input the correct filter inputs. You can find calculators for this.

Also for those needing extra time delay, that can do done with an all pass filter.


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post #20 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

The DCX isnt exactly perfect, it increases noise levels because its a pro audio device that runs the outputs extremely hot compared to comercial options. (see the long DCX thread in diyaudio). s, AX9 and I disagree but my pink noise tones on my ribbons and my Compression drivers show the increase so I do not care about any subjective opinion.

No subjectivity at all.You did a useless measurement and the measurement was how you used it in your system, not of the unit itself. Show me the line level noise floor coming out of the DCX and the signal levels used in and out. It does not add any significant noise if used correctly. It also has better converters than the MiniDSP.


Quote:
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We can hide the Minidsp when its all setup. The DCX sits out like any gly pro gear ith rack ears. It does not look good on a glass shelf with more "WAF" products.

The DCX doesn't make much heat so it can easily be hidden, though less easily than the Mini.
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post #21 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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useless measurement?

If a tweeter noise levels changes +5 or 6 dB from connecting to the DCX then its not usless. Its real life usage fact!

As I said your incorrect POV is noted and we can move on, I only care about REAL issues in room and everyone else in the world sides with me on the "hot" nature of the DCX outputs. See many, many forums on the issue...go argue with them if you have some pickle stuck up your butt about this.

Stick your head back into the Aussie dust bowl and ignore all of us, hell you have never proved a damn thing with real measurements, go out show me the measurements then you can post in my thread again

Nor do I want this to be a DCX vs MiniDSP fight. To end it sure the DCX is amazing....whoppie, I own 3 of them already!!

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post #22 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

useless measurement?

If a tweeter noise levels changes +5 or 6 dB from connecting to the DCX then its not usless. Its real life usage fact!

Yes, because you measured your system with a device not set up to do noise floor measurements. However, you keep prattling on about how the DCX is noisy, when it's not, because you're using it incorrectly. Show me the measurements of the actual noise floor of the DCX not your system or I will call you on this every time. You just don't seem to be able to see the difference. Just because you are not using it optimally is not a fault of the unit itself.
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post #23 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Again, I have my measurements and adding the DCX to the connection the noise floor on any Tweeter increases 5dB. You are simply being a pedantic fool here on your term "noise Floor"....you do not understand what Im posting and you are picking a term and being pedantic about it. The HISS is louder...you can define that all you want but the measurements Im doing are the RIGHT measurements for me beause that is simply NOISE!!!

You call that useless then fine prove prove it with your own data and measurements. Posting that Im just wrong is meaningless to me. Im not alone either, you need to go read some of the discussions about the hot outputs and stop being stubborn. Again, I will say that if you are not going to post meausrements and your own tests on the product then do not post your opinion in my threads on it again (You never shut up about it!!). Repeating the same BS 15 times does not get anywhere in any thread you post it in.

Less subjectivity and more real testing or just not post....its really that simple.

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post #24 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Again, I have my measurements and adding the DCX to the connection the noise floor on any Tweeter increases 5dB. You are simply being a pedantic fool here on your term "noise Floor"....you do not understand what Im posting and you are picking a term and being pedantic about it. The HISS is louder...you can define that all you want but the measurements Im doing are the RIGHT measurements for me beause that is simply NOISE!!!

You measured you system and not the unit itself a point which you never seem to acknowledge. So using a pice of test gear that is not calibrated or designed for testing noise, in a noisy environment (room) with whatever gain structure errors you have and then post that the unit will add 5dB to the noise experienced from any tweeter. BS. I understand exactly what you're posting: I have been doing measurements on audio and broadcast systems for years in a professional role and that is why I'm calling you on it.

The published figures of the DCX show even at low levels it is >90dB SNR and at the levels it's expecting in use, 112dB. When I ran baseline tests on one of mine it was not far off that, certainly within measurement error and for all their other faults, Behringer are pretty consistent with specs.



I also have 3 of them, but mine are all modified. When I get home next week, I'll measure one of them for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Less subjectivity and more real testing or just not post....its really that simple.

No subjectivity here. I'm asking you to show me that the unit alone, not in your system adds a 5dB noise floor.

Because you can't implement it into a system without adding noise is not a fault of the unit.
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post #25 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 02:10 PM
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Please forgive my dreadful ettiquette for barging in here like this, but I happened across a USB Charger that I thought I'd bring to your attention. I don't know if it would work for this Mini DSP device, but I thought it was worth a mention.




Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I realize it does not come with power. I did ask for the DC power option, which is just a terminal block (5 to 12VDC), Can I just take one of the 100 old 12V plugs I have lying around???

Now, I know its powered over USB but I didnt think i needed a PC with it at all times.

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post #26 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 02:27 PM
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iphone charger
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post #27 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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A9X,

Let me make this simple for you....

QSC DSP30 does not increase noise.
MiniDSP does not increase noise.
DCX increases noise.

"Noise" is simple defined as that "HISS" everyone can hear with a CD or Ribbon at 1". It exists on 100% of them, if people can not hear it then they are simply deaf. Its easily measurable too, just plug any of them into an amp (don't foolish have the gain structure at 10% to just prove a point, yes we can all turn the amp completely down if there is a gain structure but that is not part of this exercise).

That is the only importance. No need to jump through hoops and do an engineering class to define "NOISE" , it is what it is. No matter the gain structure the noise increases with the DCX but not other devices. Hmmm......

There is endless threads on their outputs having this issue (please read them!!). You are the minority on this and if you really cared to prove yourself you would post in those DCX2496 threads, I suspect you would never do that because you know its easier to banter subjectively about here..

Im looking forward to your measurements but you are going to measure something complete meaningless to the topic because from the start of our debate on this you have always been thinking about it in the wrong way (wrong as in ignoring what Im talking about always). Please post those results in another thread because this thread is not about the DCX.

BTW, thanks for wasting time on the MiniDSP thread. I hope you satisfied your little fettish on this topic.

Im hope we can just get back to the MiniDSP now. (asking for a 3rd time hoping A9X isnt a complete Ahole about the topic?)

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post #28 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 03:51 PM
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Sooo, Penn, how bout that MiniDSP?

Seriously though, you mentioned that you played with the software and might use these for some future inwall speaker project. Have you actually plugged this into some of your current speakers yet?


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post #29 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry guys for the DCX mess....this is about the MiniDSP, lets stay on that product.

I plugged it into my Outlaw amp and my Ribbon speakers (just the M/T part of the design), nothing more then that. I didnt have any bass setup with them so I didnt play any music. I wanted to just check out the noise part of the equation

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post #30 of 2467 Old 10-07-2010, 03:55 PM
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Cool. One thing that would be super cool to see is a loop-back measurement. That way we can see if this little guy is accurate to the numbers in the software.


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