Mfw-15 Clone Project - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 120 Old 01-07-2012, 10:17 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Nicks... So, I bought this MFW-15 amp on ebay ..seller reported hum.... Well testing it does not really hum it just does "nothing". I only paid about 30 bucks so Im not crying over spilt milk. I even replaced the caps as suggested on the Motor City/Seaton forum a al 'murrell' style. Still no good. I am going to tinker with the amp bridge PCB maybe its a resistor blown or bad cap on that board. However I am not going to spen more than an hour trying to fix. Really what do you suggest for an external amp for a Sub that I can use on multiple subs as I grow my sub builds. I may want to tinker with others in the future and jusst think maybe a decent ext would do the trick....

I am not sure if I should go with one of those Behringer Inukes with DSP they run about 300 dollars? Have you seen those? Maybe a plain Behringer ep4000 or EP2000 ? Maybe one of those Dayton 1000W external units ?

What do you suggest?

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 120 Old 01-07-2012, 01:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mpray1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delaware, philly
Posts: 2,349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

ordered a milescraft circle jig... will be on hold while i wait on that.

That miles craft jig is a piece of crap. You would be much better off getting the jasper jig. The miles craft works but just miserable to work with and is more of a guessing game than anything else. Perhaps it's user error...
Mpray1983 is offline  
post #63 of 120 Old 01-07-2012, 01:56 PM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
all the circle jigs are pretty much crap... i almost bought the jasper but was worried because of the thin plastic that is also britle. i heard a lot of people say they last 3 or 4 times. the miles craft is stout, has the Alum construction. the milescraft is a bit odd trying to measure but I see what you mean. the milescraft is also bad because the smallest circle you can make is 10 inches. i may also purchase the jasper as well.....

someone really needs to make one out of metal etc.. that is similiar to the jasper.

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #64 of 120 Old 01-07-2012, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

Nicks... So, I bought this MFW-15 amp on ebay ..seller reported hum.... Well testing it does not really hum it just does "nothing". I only paid about 30 bucks so Im not crying over spilt milk. I even replaced the caps as suggested on the Motor City/Seaton forum a al 'murrell' style. Still no good. I am going to tinker with the amp bridge PCB maybe its a resistor blown or bad cap on that board. However I am not going to spen more than an hour trying to fix. Really what do you suggest for an external amp for a Sub that I can use on multiple subs as I grow my sub builds. I may want to tinker with others in the future and jusst think maybe a decent ext would do the trick....

I am not sure if I should go with one of those Behringer Inukes with DSP they run about 300 dollars? Have you seen those? Maybe a plain Behringer ep4000 or EP2000 ? Maybe one of those Dayton 1000W external units ?

What do you suggest?

Contact murrel about suggestions on fixing the amp. Got any pixs of the amp? Check the fuse in IEC plug receptacle.

Youve certainly got amp options.

Murrel sells a new version3 amp for the mfw which is really nice and setup perfectly for the sub you built, about 250-300.

If you buy a pro amp your gonna need a seperate high pass and probably some eq to get good results. Or buy one of those DSP models. Heres the thing about pro power you need a setup that will be power limited right at the maximum power handling of the sub to keep it in one piece. Orherwise an unexpectedly high signal could take out the sub since the amp will just blow right past the drivers limits.

sandbagger has some cap modded V2s hes selling. Who knows how long theyll last. ive got three of like that and i hope they keep pumping....... However i wouldnt pay more than about $150 shipped for one just not worth the risk.

Heres what I would do in this order. Try to fix amp with murrels help. Buy a v3 from Murrel. Go with the BASH 300 from PE for lile $120shipped and build an extra box on back to hold it or buy the 240watt external amp from PE for like $200. The 240 would be under powered.

If i were using pro power id scrap the MFW driver and get something that could handle a little more power. Pro power is not gonna work out to be power limited for that driver and would not be very durable otherwise. Think about a deiver that could handle the full power of one of a pro amps channels. And youll still need a high pass.

The PE titanc 15" looks good in that box but id have to model to see how much power it would take....... And im away crom home now.

Lots of options........
NicksHitachi is offline  
post #65 of 120 Old 01-07-2012, 04:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mpray1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delaware, philly
Posts: 2,349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have built subs using the titanic..with sealed designs in a 3cf box...the mfw takes 240 watts whereas the titanic can handle 750-800 watts in the same size enclosure. Those titanics stand up to their name. The sound quality is better on the titanic than the mfw as well I think and this is coming from a guy with 6 mfw's in my living room.
Mpray1983 is offline  
post #66 of 120 Old 01-07-2012, 07:51 PM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Would like to see the titanic model in a MFW-15 cabinet .... that would be very interesting. Maybe a future build. One at a time though !

Overall... I think I may get this... any drawbacks?

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/NU1000DSP.aspx

I know I could get a bash or something although I reallly just want something I can mount in a rack someday.

I may just donate the parts of that MFW amp I have to someone... if they needed it. I will put in a post to murrell though just to see if he can offer anything up.

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #67 of 120 Old 01-08-2012, 01:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mjaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,466
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

all the circle jigs are pretty much crap... i almost bought the jasper but was worried because of the thin plastic that is also britle. i heard a lot of people say they last 3 or 4 times. the miles craft is stout, has the Alum construction. the milescraft is a bit odd trying to measure but I see what you mean. the milescraft is also bad because the smallest circle you can make is 10 inches. i may also purchase the jasper as well.....

someone really needs to make one out of metal etc.. that is similiar to the jasper.

Those people that are only getting 3 or 4 uses out of the jasper jig must be hitting them with hammers. Maybe there braking them when mounting or in storage? I have both my 200 and 300 mounted on separate routers and they hardly ever come off so I can use them quickly.

I have cut 30 to 40 circles with my 200 and 10 or more with my 300 and they have never given me trouble. I bet people brake them when not in use by stepping on them or not storing them right.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
mjaudio is offline  
post #68 of 120 Old 01-08-2012, 02:28 PM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
A couple more pics...
LL
LL
LL

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #69 of 120 Old 01-08-2012, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

A couple more pics...

Dude im so happy this things working out
for you......

Im like a proud parent! Well like a proud parent who cloned someone else's kid and showed others how....... Haha!

I think it looks better than the one I built!! Were all the other measurements close?
NicksHitachi is offline  
post #70 of 120 Old 01-09-2012, 08:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mpray1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Delaware, philly
Posts: 2,349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I think I might build a couple of these this summer since I have two mfw drivers in two sealed boxes that im really not using for anything. Just seeing how well yours turned out makes me wanna start making sawdust again. How would you compare two of these against two dual opposed mfw's besides the obvious deeper extension with the sealed?
Mpray1983 is offline  
post #71 of 120 Old 01-10-2012, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

I think I might build a couple of these this summer since I have two mfw drivers in two sealed boxes that im really not using for anything. Just seeing how well yours turned out makes me wanna start making sawdust again. How would you compare two of these against two dual opposed mfw's besides the obvious deeper extension with the sealed?

As long as the sealed alignment is run wide open(no active limiting down low to control excursion) a pair of those best a PAIR of dual opposed sealed cabinets down to 20hz.

Why? we leave a lot of midbass on the table to keep excursion under control down low on these dual opposed sealed with pro power.

A pair original MFWs puts out >120db in the midbass which is pretty stout.
NicksHitachi is offline  
post #72 of 120 Old 01-14-2012, 02:46 PM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
More pics ! I used the PL to glue on the last piece. I glued some foam inside. The last pice fit pretty good considering I built this. Fudge factor very small.

One more size was a bit off and I will get you the number on the cut sheet but it is in the garage. It was the one that was 45degree short to Short 12 7/8" x 16 3/4" ..... it came to more about 8 1/2" x 16 3/4" for me.... It would have fit perfect except it had to meet the panels on the out side edge but the back pice is recessed in... if you understand what I am saying ?

Unless I was way off someplace else !! the port was 1.5" all the way around or close to it...
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #73 of 120 Old 01-15-2012, 06:07 PM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
ordered a behringer inuke dsp 1000 ..... i should be booming next weekend !

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #74 of 120 Old 02-04-2012, 06:16 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Check it out! Its in the house.

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #75 of 120 Old 02-04-2012, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

Check it out! Its in the house.

Check what out? Wheres the pics?
NicksHitachi is offline  
post #76 of 120 Old 02-26-2012, 11:29 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Check what out? Wheres the pics?

Here is a pic for people to check out... I know the behringer is very UGLY!
LL

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #77 of 120 Old 02-27-2012, 08:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
pgwalsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 1,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

Here is a pic for people to check out... I know the behringer is very UGLY!

Looks good to me. Nice job.

Builds: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, Dual Opposed MFW's x 2, Statements, 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 x 5. 
pgwalsh is online now  
post #78 of 120 Old 04-04-2012, 09:26 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Getting ready to build another one!!

Will have Left right MFW 15

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #79 of 120 Old 04-06-2012, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

Getting ready to build another one!!

Will have Left right MFW 15

Hey, wasnt there one more cut that needed tweaking?

Let me know and ill update the OP.....

Two motivates any normal space to like 120db for most movie content which is pretty darn good!
NicksHitachi is offline  
post #80 of 120 Old 04-09-2012, 01:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jimwhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL USA
Posts: 5,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Be careful you don't crack the slab!

Jim White
St. Petersburg, FL
jimwhite is offline  
post #81 of 120 Old 04-11-2012, 11:22 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Hey, wasnt there one more cut that needed tweaking?

Let me know and ill update the OP.....

Two motivates any normal space to like 120db for most movie content which is pretty darn good!

I will get those measurements for you ... I am going to make sure i get the 1.5 inches around the port and make sure the length of the port is also correct. I think i may have been a bit off on the original build.

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #82 of 120 Old 04-11-2012, 11:23 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

Be careful you don't crack the slab!

haha ... i just rent anyway...!!

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #83 of 120 Old 04-11-2012, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 141
Hey i see your selling your dsp1000 what you gonna get?
NicksHitachi is offline  
post #84 of 120 Old 04-12-2012, 06:46 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
3000DSP so i can power both MFW's
have it on ebay for 220 bucks.

the fan is a bit loud but... for the price of these things you cant go wrong IMO.

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #85 of 120 Old 04-13-2012, 01:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
maxcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Those people that are only getting 3 or 4 uses out of the jasper jig must be hitting them with hammers. Maybe there braking them when mounting or in storage? I have both my 200 and 300 mounted on separate routers and they hardly ever come off so I can use them quickly.

I have cut 30 to 40 circles with my 200 and 10 or more with my 300 and they have never given me trouble. I bet people brake them when not in use by stepping on them or not storing them right.

I realize this reply is very late, but I don't see how people are destroying or wearing out the Jasper jig in 3-4 uses. I haven't had mine very long, but I've cut at least a dozen holes with it. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't last for at least hundreds if not thousands more. It is pretty thick/tough plastic. Even if you used the same size every time, it seems like it would work for many (100+?) cuts before the pin hole gets too sloppy.

-Max
maxcooper is offline  
post #86 of 120 Old 04-13-2012, 06:27 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxcooper View Post

I realize this reply is very late, but I don't see how people are destroying or wearing out the Jasper jig in 3-4 uses. I haven't had mine very long, but I've cut at least a dozen holes with it. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't last for at least hundreds if not thousands more. It is pretty thick/tough plastic. Even if you used the same size every time, it seems like it would work for many (100+?) cuts before the pin hole gets too sloppy.

-Max

I bought one and I have not used but I agree ... it is better quality than some people made it out to be.

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #87 of 120 Old 04-19-2012, 08:08 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Some pics of new build
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #88 of 120 Old 04-19-2012, 08:08 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
more pics
LL
LL
LL
LL

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #89 of 120 Old 04-23-2012, 05:36 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
yet more pics ...coming along.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
post #90 of 120 Old 04-23-2012, 05:37 AM
Senior Member
 
fschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
more pics.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL

FSChris
ASROCK H67 GE / HT
Core i3

Carver AV-705 5Channel AMP
Zaph 2.5MM TT'S DIY

Emotiva XPA3

Emotiva UMC 200

2 x MFW 15 Clones DIY

fschris is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off