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post #3691 of 11724 Old 05-01-2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orcarola25 View Post

Honestly I can humbly say that I would really be shooting in the dark trying to design my own crossover. I am personally banking on some help as it seems like there are quite a few members who have already kindly provided clarification to us newer learners. I am not completely illiterate but am not a veteran by any means.

Bosso seems to be the "go to" guy that has dedicated his time and energy in helping Erich incorporate the SEOS into a high performing loudspeaker. Although I would consider it a very small contribution, I would be willing to send bosso a TD12M and a TD15M when I receive them to run through tests and come up with a solid crossover schematic for the masses. Not sure how many members have already offered this but I just thought I would throw it put there.


I'm going to start calling him Bosso now if you don't mind!


Actually, it's BWaslo that was helping with the crossover work so far. There will be a decent number of different crossover designs by more people once everything gets here.
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post #3692 of 11724 Old 05-01-2012, 08:51 PM
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As someone who has an AE speaker pre ordered... theyre so limited release i feel like resources would be better spent on drivers you can actually buy regularly.
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post #3693 of 11724 Old 05-01-2012, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

It matters; for same XO freq, 4 ohm requires half the value for inductors and resistors, and double the value for capacitors.

Thanks Noah. Yes, this is what I gathered from reading a bit further. Found a thread on audiokarma discussing a similar issue. Playing around with this site: http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html Calculating a 4th order 2-way crossover, I was at least able to observe the doubling of L2 inductor on the high pass by cycling between 8 and 4ohm impedance and the doubling and halving of the low pass resistor and inductor values on C3, C4, L3, and L4. Why wouldn't L1 change in value? I noticed it is the same value as the ohmage of the tweeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

It's not that simple most of the time. If there are notches or zobels etc. and a 4 and 8 ohm driver may measure differently othe than just the extra 3db.

So it doesn't matter if you're doing your own design. You have to figure it all out anyways. And if copying a design, I doubt halving the L and doubling the C will do it anyways. It'll still end up wrong, likely.


I read about that 3db rise and someone mentioned using an L-pad to adjust, but wasn't really sure why unless the only reason was to even the output between the cd or tweeter and the mid-driver. I understand what you're saying that it wouldn't matter to a designer, they would make the correct adjustment in the network, whereas by simply halving or doubling these values may not achieve good results without real-world measurement and know-how.

Thanks guys. I'm trying to wrap my head around it all...I'm hooked.
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post #3694 of 11724 Old 05-01-2012, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

As someone who has an AE speaker pre ordered... they're so limited release i feel like resources would be better spent on drivers you can actually buy regularly.

Ya know, I was battling this very thing between AE and Faital Pro, but
I've gone and drank the AE cool-aid. I've monitored the pre-order list and hold quite a few of those involved in very high regard (including John
Janowitz - both on a personal and professional level) and followed many threads across several boards. I'm certain those that plunked down their cash for these had considered similar attributes between drivers currently available on the market, perhaps even comparing the 12fh520 and td12m. Eternal Velocity pointed out some impedance irregularities in a graph he posted for the Faital driver and also posted some very nice looking FR graphs here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2942. I was intrigued by the measurements Brandon Thill made with the TD12M (http://sites.google.com/site/driverv...speakers-td12m) and I was particularly impressed with the 0-40 degree frequency response and in comparing the impedance/phase vs. frequency of the AE to the Faital, I leaned toward the AE. I understand the trepidation however, AE is a very small company, but I feel with the support (and patience) this community has shown it can only get better.

-Nate
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post #3695 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 04:11 AM
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I say this "tongue in cheek" but according to john at AE the TD12 series doesnt suffer the same lead time issues of the larger drivers.

He said they had a few week lead time but nothing like a 15" driver........

FYI.
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post #3696 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I say this "tongue in cheek" but according to john at AE the TD12 series doesnt suffer the same lead time issues of the larger drivers.

He said they had a few week lead time but nothing like a 15" driver........

FYI.

Good, I want two maybe 7...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #3697 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 10:08 AM
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So...What is the group go to 12 or 15 for an alternative to the AE TD12-15m's???
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post #3698 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 11:26 AM
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Eminence has some good contenders?

Lots of budget range too.
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post #3699 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louisdamani View Post

so...what is the group go to 12 or 15 for an alternative to the ae td12-15m's???

jbl 2206 imo; there are some on ebay right now

Noah
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post #3700 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 12:56 PM
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Sometimes I wonder if JBL knows they would empty their inventory if they priced the 2226H at a more reasonable point. I would have build my speakers already. lol
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post #3701 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

Sometimes I wonder if JBL knows they would empty their inventory if they priced the 2226H at a more reasonable point. I would have build my speakers already. lol

Cheapest new is $319 here http://www.speakerfactory.net/

Noah
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post #3702 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Cheapest new is $319 here http://www.speakerfactory.net/

I see $349, but even then, that is a great price. As much as used + a recone! uh oh.... my poor wallet. Thanks for the link!
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post #3703 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:


Eternal Velocity pointed out some impedance irregularities in a graph he posted for the Faital driver

I wouldn't call them "irregularities" - in fact "regularities" might be more accurate. It's the acoustic elegance drivers which are irregular!

For reference, Troels Graveson has worked with some of the finest Hi-Fi drivers on the planet from Scanspeak, Seas, etc. When it got down to developing his own driver (A High Sensitivity Seas Excel unit for the most part), which he (of course with bias) considers his personal favorite, the measurements actually showed some "impedance problems".



What you have to remember however, is that a more sensitive driver will apparently magnify the impedance issues. The impedance can make you panic, but that doesn't mean you should panic. Even this scanspeak revelator shows a pretty big bump:



And it's not as signfiicantly "visible" in a lower efficiency design.

So I do want to apologize if I gave you any apprehension. The acoustic elegance drivers are certainly irregular, but i'm not 100% sure any of those things are audible once linear response is carefully addressed.
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post #3704 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

Sometimes I wonder if JBL knows they would empty their inventory if they priced the 2226H at a more reasonable point. I would have build my speakers already. lol

used ones cost nothing i got 2226s for $120 each in town with original cones and mint condition then got some sun damaged 2206 a few weeks later for $90 each dyed them black they look great and work like stock ones. both pairs off Craigslist right after sxsw. just make sure u get original cones.
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post #3705 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

used ones cost nothing i got 2226s for $120 each in town with original cones and mint condition then got some sun damaged 2206 a few weeks later for $90 each dyed them black they look great and work like stock ones. both pairs off Craigslist right after sxsw. just make sure u get original cones.

I keep an eye out on CL and EB all the time. I never see them for sale around my area. You got some killer deals though for sure.
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post #3706 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 02:17 PM
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Is anyone planning a design with the 2226H?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #3707 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Is anyone planning a design with the 2226H?

Yea, I have one.

When completed it will look much like this. My project was inspired by studio monitors designed by George Augspurger.



Each cabinet has two 2226H drivers in it along with an 18 inch SEOS and DE250 CD. Mine will have a SEOS waveguide in place of the wooden horn shown in the PIC.

I have one cabinet assembled but am sorry to admit that I haven't completed the project. I keep being drawn away by other efforts that pay the rent! I hope to get back to it soon and complete it.

Here is a PIC of a typical studio install.


_____________
Best Regards,
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post #3708 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 05:22 PM
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Those look sick Carl, looking forward to seeing yours
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post #3709 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Those look sick Carl, looking forward to seeing yours

Ha, ha, Yes!

Here is a pair with subs. Geez, I really need to finish them.



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post #3710 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 06:22 PM
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If money wasn't a issue what would be the best 15" driver to use. I was set on AE but I'm rethinking it now. Would it be the 2226H? What are people going with?
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post #3711 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 06:47 PM
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For what it's worth, I have some of those JBL 15's, but they're 16 Ohm models.

I can't recall how many I have from the JBL group buy last year, but it should be at least 5-7 pair? I just never got around to listing them. I'm thinking about keeping 2 pair of them myself. But not sure just yet.
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post #3712 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 07:34 PM
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gone !
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post #3713 of 11724 Old 05-02-2012, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

I see $349, but even then, that is a great price. As much as used + a recone! uh oh.... my poor wallet. Thanks for the link!

That's for the 2226's.

you're welcome

Noah
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post #3714 of 11724 Old 05-03-2012, 11:13 AM
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Hot pictures from HIGH END Munich 2012.
LL
LL
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post #3715 of 11724 Old 05-03-2012, 11:33 AM
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My first reaction was it looks like a collection of bathroom fixtures
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post #3716 of 11724 Old 05-03-2012, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post

Hot pictures from HIGH END Munich 2012.

Spectacular. Oh, and I spy...one piece baffles... Front and back shot too, very nice. And I see the enclosure got some paint too. Excellent.

-Nate
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post #3717 of 11724 Old 05-03-2012, 11:53 AM
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My first reaction was it looks like a collection of bathroom fixtures

Yes like bidet etc.
Some say Mick Jagger mouth
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post #3718 of 11724 Old 05-03-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post

Hot pictures from HIGH END Munich 2012.


Those are some unbelievably beautiful speakers, I'm not sure if I would like the painting on the red horn though.......
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post #3719 of 11724 Old 05-03-2012, 11:58 AM
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A friend of Autotech wanted to try dental resins (expensive). Not everyone like them that's for sure.
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post #3720 of 11724 Old 05-03-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Ha, ha, Yes!

Here is a pair with subs. Geez, I really need to finish them.



____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

would just doing a single 15" design cause any changes in the design of the crossover? Im looking more at a single 15 design, or POSSIBLY a stacked 15" design where the horn would be between the two 15's :Sweet:

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