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post #901 of 11031 Old 01-11-2011, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks 3am...that is getting us back on track...oh yeah....:-)

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post #902 of 11031 Old 01-11-2011, 09:40 PM
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[/quote]




A few more... I will sort these out later. Or simply quote this post and I can edit it. I was just posting these up for reference.

Max

Dual Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" Sonosub Build thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1223658
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post #903 of 11031 Old 01-11-2011, 09:43 PM
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A few more good tidbits...
When I have time tomorrow I will scour the past pages and pull out all of the relevant info and post it up in one good post.

Quote:


From earlier in the thread
Here is the original EOS with a 12cm radius:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post19556489

The SEOS's radius unknown:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19641991

While searching through the threads I ran across a model Jzagaja posted of an 12" OS-JMLC hybrid, maybe this expanded to 15" in EOS may be the sweetspot?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post19556489


Max

Dual Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" Sonosub Build thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1223658
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post #904 of 11031 Old 01-12-2011, 02:25 AM
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3AM, Thanks for the pic updates!

Thank you AVS for removing the lock.

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post #905 of 11031 Old 01-12-2011, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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+1

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post #906 of 11031 Old 01-12-2011, 04:25 PM
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Back on track.

I can't wait to hear what kind of measurements we get out of this thing.
Regardless it will be an awesome learning experience and we can then see what we can learn from it.
Though, I would hope to get an awesomely badass WG and pair it up, get an xover crafted and get to listening to it.

I don't know how much help I can be in crafting an X-over, or box design, (though I will try.) But I do know that I want to build one, and with the tools that I have measure it and let you guys know what I think.

Max

Dual Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" Sonosub Build thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1223658
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post #907 of 11031 Old 01-12-2011, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post

Back on topic, I've been in communication with Parts Express's marketing manager (who I work with on other projects) in the past week, they have drawings and a waveguide sent out to the far east to estimate costs on producing a model based on the QSC 152i waveguide. They were not able to get them directly in bulk from QSC, who were not interested. No estimate on when either waveguides or even when an answer might be available, though.

PE's upper people are well aware of the interest in the QSC guides, but don't expect their technical service reps on the phone to know much about marketing or production plans on offerings that aren't yet available.

Thanks Bill.

Please keep us on top of the situation with these please, as I'm down for a couple as soon as available. My emails to PE haven't brought useful responses as the reps replying aren't on top of the situation.
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post #908 of 11031 Old 01-13-2011, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Thanks Bill.

Please keep us on top of the situation with these please, as I'm down for a couple as soon as available.

I'm with A9X. I'm interested in both the low-cost PE offering and the more optimal SEOS. The PE offering would allow a much larger audience enjoy Zilch's Econowave Deluxe designs.
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post #909 of 11031 Old 01-13-2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

I'm with A9X. I'm interested in both the low-cost PE offering and the more optimal SEOS. The PE offering would allow a much larger audience enjoy Zilch's Econowave Deluxe designs.

There might be a way to get the best of all that. Time will tell though.
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post #910 of 11031 Old 01-17-2011, 11:59 AM
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See waveguide shootout:

http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/2...-shootout.html
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post #911 of 11031 Old 01-17-2011, 12:09 PM
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Jack, could you comment on the directivity measurements of the OSWG 12"?? Those are not what I expected.

FWIW, measurements are not everything. I remember a great link on your group buy thread to measurement/listening test LeCleache did and it showed some very interesting results.

I also know that no matter how good that polar Dayton 10"/ Selenium D220 (screw on) may look I already know they are the worst sounding of all my Waveguide/CD choices. People need to see the CSD of the Selenium vs BMS 4550. Wavelet analysis of the impulse measurement also will show some issues those polar plots will not.

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post #912 of 11031 Old 01-17-2011, 12:25 PM
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OSWG may look "worse" when normalized to 0deg. IMHO Better normalize to power response.

Minphase horn is the smoothest hybrid. See below with 2" throat.
LL
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post #913 of 11031 Old 01-24-2011, 10:05 PM
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I just realized a 15" woofer/SEOS won't fit under my screen.

Would someone be interested in designing a XO that uses tandem 8" under the WG?

I'm thinking B&C 8PS21's would be good; 94 dB, shorting ring, about $100 ea.

Horizontal directivity match would remain good.

C-c would be less so the vertical lobe would be wider.

Also the shallower depth of the 8" will tilt the axis up toward ear height, a good thing.

Vertical directivity match will of course suffer, but oh well.

Carpeted floor will make that less of an issue, as will the long delayed ceiling reflection.

Noah
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post #914 of 11031 Old 01-24-2011, 10:25 PM
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Noah, would a 10" SEOS work?

I was told today that the 15" waveguide prototype is done. I hope to be getting it shortly for testing.
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post #915 of 11031 Old 01-24-2011, 10:59 PM
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Yes, and so would a 12", assuming it's no taller than the XT1086.

But those still need XO's designed, and I'd just as soon have SEOS-15's all the way across the front.

Actually I'd rather have SEOS-12's across the fronts, smaller and they could all be identical.

Noah
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"I just realized a 15" woofer/SEOS won't fit under my screen"
Thats been my concern all along. When I proposed doing dual 8's or 10's side by side under the WG I was told it would not work. This was on another forum. They gave no reason why. I'm still a noob so that left me frustrated a little. That is why I posed the question about an MTM with a wave guide. I think I can fit a 12 and the WG so that might be my new route but I'm watching the answers you get
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post #917 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Would someone be interested in designing a XO that uses tandem 8" under the WG?

I'm thinking B&C 8PS21's would be good; 94 dB, shorting ring, about $100 ea.
This is something I have been interested in as well. With 8 inch drivers, would using a transmission line enclosure for the mids be an advantage/possibility?

Wayne
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post #918 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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"I was told today that the 15" waveguide prototype is done. I hope to be getting it shortly for testing."

:-) awesome.

noah, if looking for an 8" driver, the 8nmb420 is one of the best.

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.a...roduct&pid=256

available in 4, 8, and 16ohm too.

this actually raises an interesting question, how would one match directivity to a pair of side-by-side woofers such as in the jbl atlas?


LL

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post #919 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey15 View Post

"I just realized a 15" woofer/SEOS won't fit under my screen"
Thats been my concern all along. When I proposed doing dual 8's or 10's side by side under the WG I was told it would not work. This was on another forum. They gave no reason why. I'm still a noob so that left me frustrated a little. That is why I posed the question about an MTM with a wave guide. I think I can fit a 12 and the WG so that might be my new route but I'm watching the answers you get

They will work, its just a matter of small compromises. Going active removes most of these compromises people get bent out of shape over

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post #920 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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or, very roughly, in something like this?


LL

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post #921 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey15 View Post

"I just realized a 15" woofer/SEOS won't fit under my screen"
Thats been my concern all along. When I proposed doing dual 8's or 10's side by side under the WG I was told it would not work. This was on another forum. They gave no reason why. I'm still a noob so that left me frustrated a little. That is why I posed the question about an MTM with a wave guide. I think I can fit a 12 and the WG so that might be my new route but I'm watching the answers you get

+1

I can easily accomidate L/R speakers of almost any height, but since I do not have an AT screen I cannot place the center ch behind my screen.
I also keep most of my equipment on a table right below the screen as well.
If we could somehow come up with a shorter wider design, that would be preferable (for me) though I know many people will just do 3x of the same design for LCR.

Max

Dual Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" Sonosub Build thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1223658
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post #922 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3AMRecords View Post

If we could somehow come up with a shorter wider design, that would be preferable (for me) though I know many people will just do 3x of the same design for LCR.

I'm looking into that also.

Are you talking about something like a narrow EOS design?
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post #923 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 08:27 AM
 
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I think for most the problem isn't the 8" height of the waveguide it's the woofer I have about 22" so you guys actually opened up the possibility of squeezing a 12. I was originally going to try the DDS ENG until I stumbled onto this thread I can't wait to hear what the verdict is on this.
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post #924 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'm looking into that also.

Are you talking about something like a narrow EOS design?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey15 View Post

I think for most the problem isn't the 8" height of the waveguide it's the woofer I have about 22" so you guys actually opened up the possibility of squeezing a 12. I was originally going to try the DDS ENG until I stumbled onto this thread I can't wait to hear what the verdict is on this.

Well I was seriously thinking of going with the 3015's for the Mains and using something like 2x 3012's for the Center in a W/WG/W horizontal configuration.
Though, from what I have been reading this is far less than optimal.
*BUT* I would love to get something like this to work properly.
I have 8' ceilings and carpeted floors so that should help.

Edit: Wrong part numbers. Doh!

Max

Dual Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" Sonosub Build thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1223658
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post #925 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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i'll start a new thread on directivity matching of two side by side woofs so as not to throw this one off track.

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post #926 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 09:47 AM
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I'm glad to see I'm not the only one interested in tandem 8's.

Now that I think about it, I'd also use them for L and R; plenty of output when used with a sub and half the cabinet volume.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that breakup modes are farther out of the passband with 8".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'm looking into that also.

Are you talking about something like a narrow EOS design?

Yes, if you mean narrow in the vertical dimension

The trouble with narrow horizontally is loss of directivity at low freq.

Noah
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post #927 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

or, very roughly, in something like this?


Yes, exactly.

Can't same I'm crazy about the square shape though.

I'd still prefer a 12" SEOS system (assuming ~1 kHz XO), which w(c)ould fit and be much more elegant looking; my wall-mounted L/R cabs will be full radius top and bottom (racetrack shape).

Noah
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post #928 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 10:05 AM
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I'd still prefer a 12" SEOS system (assuming ~1 kHz XO)

You can XO it down to 1KHz but you will not have directivity that low. Does that really matter? It depends on its importance to you.

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post #929 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I was told today that the 15" waveguide prototype is done. I hope to be getting it shortly for testing.

That's good news, does Jzagaja have a picture for you! Have you been able to get a hold of Zilch, is he still the one testing it?
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post #930 of 11031 Old 01-25-2011, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDiver View Post

Have you been able to get a hold of Zilch, is he still the one testing it?

http://audiokarma.net/forums/showpos...ostcount=12553
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