Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 348 - AVS Forum
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post #10411 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 12:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Pokeme. It isn't up to Erich to give out the design. It's up to the designer. I haven't made a penny off any of these designs. I've lost some money. So if you think you should be compensated, where does that leave me (I'm saying 'me' but mean any designer). They're our designs to do as we please. How about Jeff B for his amazing PCD program that has been used for a lot of these designs... FREE!!! That program is a $150 piece of software that hundred of people use free. If you feel kicked out of the club because Erich didn't give you the schematic for something that isn't his, feel free to ask the designer who has the rights to that design.

Perhaps you don't remember why Erich started the website. I do. It was because he felt bad for guys like Bagby, lilmike, etc. Handing out designs without compensation for their time. So he set up a donation thing on the website to say thanks for flat packs and things. Guess how many donations he received? It's as if the designer's effort is not appreciated but a builders time is worth something. And I'm not supposed to be insulted? I've declined every donation that has come my way. Not one penny has been collected. You don't have any say in this. If you think you're kicked out of the club, that's your own feeling.

I'll tell you what. Send me a thousand dollars, which is roughly the cost of parts of my new design, and another thousand dollars for my time (roughly 100hours and $10/hr) and once it's done, it's yours to build and sell. I haven't released the XO. It's all yours for $2k. I mean hey, that's my cost in this whole thing, so I'm not even making money. That's just to get me out of the hole I'm in with my wife. And if you think I should make money, then make it $1000 plus $10,000 which is about 100 hours at $100/hr of engineers time. Seems fair??

And I'll just caveat this like you did and say don't be offended this is just my perspective.


Umm yeah.

 

I was specifically asking TO BUY a couple volt 10's through the website and when I talked to Erich about it he said he'd think about it, as I told them it'd be for sale to a coworker that thought they would be amazing, but has no talent or desire to learn how to work with his hands. His choice.

 

You not making money is your own business, or choice.  If I was looking to mass produce a speaker, I would gladly pay you a few thousand for your design as it is surely worth it, but again, your choice to not make anything. Maybe you SHOULD be charging for your designs if you feel that strongly.  Remember, happy wife, happy life.

 

Yeah I'm not offended, opinions are a lot like arseholes.

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post #10412 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 12:46 PM
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Either way, I've just taken the next leap in the DIY adventure and hope to return something useful to the community in the next few weeks, be less a whiney biatch, and I'll have a better idea of the mental anguish you have been suffering.

I didn't say I was having any mental anguish. I actually really enjoy what I'm doing. smile.gif

No where did I ever say someone couldn't build a kit and sell it to a friend. I'd have no reason to say anything like that.
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post #10413 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 12:47 PM
 
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I didn't say I was having any mental anguish. I actually really enjoy what I'm doing. smile.gif


I'm starting to feel some as people jump down my throat and to their own conclusions.

 

^^

 

That's not the impression I get in my email from you! Probably just a misunderstanding.  I do realize you have a real job and SEOS Maximus is on the go, I'm sorry if I have caused any grief for you. I'm just very enthusiastic and believe some people mistake that for a sense of entitlement and abrasiveness.

 

It makes no matter, I'm not stupid, I know I am not welcome by everyone.  I'm still going to attempt to create a volt 12 for my friend and get myself up the armpits in crossover design.  If it's not Shiite then I'll submit it for peer review and more than likely refinement! It also seemed like the only thing fair to put in the back of the theater with the lovely tempests destroying the current stuff.

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post #10414 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Pokeme. It isn't up to Erich to give out the design. It's up to the designer. I haven't made a penny off any of these designs. I've lost some money. So if you think you should be compensated, where does that leave me (I'm saying 'me' but mean any designer). They're our designs to do as we please. How about Jeff B for his amazing PCD program that has been used for a lot of these designs... FREE!!! That program is a $150 piece of software that hundred of people use free. If you feel kicked out of the club because Erich didn't give you the schematic for something that isn't his, feel free to ask the designer who has the rights to that design.

Perhaps you don't remember why Erich started the website. I do. It was because he felt bad for guys like Bagby, lilmike, etc. Handing out designs without compensation for their time. So he set up a donation thing on the website to say thanks for flat packs and things. Guess how many donations he received? It's as if the designer's effort is not appreciated but a builders time is worth something. And I'm not supposed to be insulted? I've declined every donation that has come my way. Not one penny has been collected. You don't have any say in this. If you think you're kicked out of the club, that's your own feeling.

I'll tell you what. Send me a thousand dollars, which is roughly the cost of parts of my new design, and another thousand dollars for my time (roughly 100hours and $10/hr) and once it's done, it's yours to build and sell. I haven't released the XO. It's all yours for $2k. I mean hey, that's my cost in this whole thing, so I'm not even making money. That's just to get me out of the hole I'm in with my wife. And if you think I should make money, then make it $1000 plus $10,000 which is about 100 hours at $100/hr of engineers time. Seems fair??

And I'll just caveat this like you did and say don't be offended this is just my perspective.

Well

There goes my plan. Thanks Tux for throwing that out there.

Back to the drawing board I guess.....
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post #10415 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 01:14 PM
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Poke me. You said you were trying to get kits not available on the website during a conversation about designs not available on the website. And talked about potential business venture to build kits before the overseas companies get their hands on them. Then you accuse me of overreacting saying you just wanted a pair of V10s?
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post #10416 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 01:31 PM
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Well

There goes my plan. Thanks Tux for throwing that out there.

Back to the drawing board I guess.....

I don't understand?
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post #10417 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 02:31 PM
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That's not the impression I get in my email from you! Probably just a misunderstanding.  I do realize you have a real job and SEOS Maximus is on the go, I'm sorry if I have caused any grief for you. I'm just very enthusiastic and believe some people mistake that for a sense of entitlement and abrasiveness.

I didn't say you caused me any grief at all. Not sure why you would think that.

I enjoy what I'm doing quite a bit, or I'd just stop. Not sure how you could get a different impression because this has always been very fun for me. The only things that cause problems are:

Getting crossover parts or components for some kits that might be out of stock. It's hard to track this because there are so many different parts.

Or people getting mad because my FedEx account is only good for shipping inside the US, not to other countries. Shipping to other countries is expensive and being off by a few pounds can change shipping prices a LOT. So the only way to get an accurate weight is to package up whatever they want and go to the post office to get the rates. I did this about 8 times and the person would just say "wow, that's a lot of money, I'll pass." Well I just spent over an hour packaging up what they wanted only to unpackage it all. As you can imagine, that gets old really fast. I have made exceptions for some people, or AVS members though.

Or people getting mad that I won't send a kit without the woofer or something else removed. As explained before, it's very hard to remove something because when I get something for cheaper, the difference from retail goes to cover Paypal, free shipping, packaging materials. I would have to figure how to package without the woofer, the weight difference, how much extra from the woofer went towards covering the shipping, etc. That sounds easy.....if it's done once. But get asked that 15 times per week, for all different parts and you'll quickly see it's not easy. "Hey, is that a 1.2mh inductor in that kit? If so, I already have 2 of those, can you subtract that off the price?"

But I still really like what I'm doing.
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post #10418 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Poke me. You said you were trying to get kits not available on the website during a conversation about designs not available on the website. And talked about potential business venture to build kits before the overseas companies get their hands on them. Then you accuse me of overreacting saying you just wanted a pair of V10s?


What I was trying to do was get 2 Ported Volt 10's, they are not listed as an option to purchase, or at least weren't when I was going to go that route (there were cubed and whatnot but nothing for ported which should require a bigger enclosure so without the details its hard to make something that will sound correct). 

 

You are most certainly are over reacting. I am not talking about ME performing some sort of massive business, that's encouragement for the proprietor of diysoundgroup. I am talking about ME building a few kits a month to completion and selling them at a modest mark up to people too lazy to do it themselves.  I also stated in my email to Erich that I'd be very happy roll any profits back into the diysoundgroup to further the cause.  You need to reread what I wrote in the proper context, I really just want to contribute, have fun and help brand recognition outside of the USA.  I've even offered to help in any way I can, paid Erich what I hoped was enough to get my kits up here last month, and thanked him profusely. Don't read what I wrote so emotionally and it will probably come across with the proper intent.

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post #10419 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 02:52 PM
 
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I didn't say you caused me any grief at all. Not sure why you would think that.

I enjoy what I'm doing quite a bit, or I'd just stop. Not sure how you could get a different impression because this has always been very fun for me. The only things that cause problems are:

Getting crossover parts or components for some kits that might be out of stock. It's hard to track this because there are so many different parts.

Or people getting mad because my FedEx account is only good for shipping inside the US, not to other countries. Shipping to other countries is expensive and being off by a few pounds can change shipping prices a LOT. So the only way to get an accurate weight is to package up whatever they want and go to the post office to get the rates. I did this about 8 times and the person would just say "wow, that's a lot of money, I'll pass." Well I just spent over an hour packaging up what they wanted only to unpackage it all. As you can imagine, that gets old really fast. I have made exceptions for some people, or AVS members though.

Or people getting mad that I won't send a kit without the woofer or something else removed. As explained before, it's very hard to remove something because when I get something for cheaper, the difference from retail goes to cover Paypal, free shipping, packaging materials. I would have to figure how to package without the woofer, the weight difference, how much extra from the woofer went towards covering the shipping, etc. That sounds easy.....if it's done once. But get asked that 15 times per week, for all different parts and you'll quickly see it's not easy. "Hey, is that a 1.2mh inductor in that kit? If so, I already have 2 of those, can you subtract that off the price?"

But I still really like what I'm doing.


I'm glad I have not caused you pain, I love what you are doing, don't stop. I only hope it gets bigger and better.

 

Shipping is shipping, some of us live on the moon and it is what it is, I don't mind paying the extra and greatly appreciate the PITA.

 

People have to understand (as I do) that you are performing package deals that spread the discounts out across many kits and cannot be separated, that's cool too.  Maybe a future option could be select parts for sale (like seos and cd) at a premium over kit prices to defray some of the hassle and contribute funds to other areas.  I'm sure you have enough ideas about junk like that though and for a hobby it's more like a lifestyle in your case.

 

I'll just refrain from posting anywhere till I'm off the stuff for my thumb and have some results to post about, though I remain enthusiastic and excited.

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post #10420 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 03:36 PM
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Pokeme, you might think in over reacting. But even if you make $10/hr selling a few built up kits, I disagree with it. For a few reasons. (And I'm talking me personally, the Volt isn't my design)

1. I've been driven to make audio my career since high school. Its in my friggin year book. If I wanted one of my designs to turn a buck, I'd be first in line. Even if its $1.

2. I choose to make my designs free of charge, that's for you and others to respect. Not question or feel entitled to back a buck off them.

3. You have no idea what plans might be in the works for completed kits.

4. It's against the terms and conditions laid out in most of the software used to develop the kits.

5. Read the red writing at the top of this forum. No marketing. It doesn't say no big time marketing. I recently figured out that chalugadp's flat pack thing was locked up because he made some bucks. I take this seriously.

6. And absolutely the most important to this example. The Volt is mtg90's handy work. Any kind of plans like you had need to go through him. Perhaps you think your entitled to make a couple bucks off his work. I don't. Even if you think its to help some people out and you deserve to be compensated.

Overreacting. Fine. Think that. Think you've been kicked out of the club too. I don't think you have. I think you've just over stepped some boundaries. I have re read your posts. And your story is changing to try and make me look bad. I'm outta here. I'm tired of this non sense.
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post #10421 of 11713 Old 06-08-2014, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Pokeme, you might think in over reacting. But even if you make $10/hr selling a few built up kits, I disagree with it. For a few reasons. (And I'm talking me personally, the Volt isn't my design)

1. I've been driven to make audio my career since high school. Its in my friggin year book. If I wanted one of my designs to turn a buck, I'd be first in line. Even if its $1.

2. I choose to make my designs free of charge, that's for you and others to respect. Not question or feel entitled to back a buck off them.

3. You have no idea what plans might be in the works for completed kits.

4. It's against the terms and conditions laid out in most of the software used to develop the kits.

5. Read the red writing at the top of this forum. No marketing. It doesn't say no big time marketing. I recently figured out that chalugadp's flat pack thing was locked up because he made some bucks. I take this seriously.

6. And absolutely the most important to this example. The Volt is mtg90's handy work. Any kind of plans like you had need to go through him. Perhaps you think your entitled to make a couple bucks off his work. I don't. Even if you think its to help some people out and you deserve to be compensated.

Overreacting. Fine. Think that. Think you've been kicked out of the club too. I don't think you have. I think you've just over stepped some boundaries. I have re read your posts. And your story is changing to try and make me look bad. I'm outta here. I'm tired of this non sense.

1. Good for you, admirable goal.

 

2. That's fine, nothing to do with you.

 

3. True.

 

4. Who said I'm using that software?!

 

5. Last time I checked I wasn't marketing, recouping costs for stain and sandpaper or solder and postage , perhaps.  Building something in my garage in the real world and selling it to someone I know isn't marketing on the forum.

 

6. Not making any volts now, and I was in correspondence with Erich who said essentially that he would look into it, and that should be fine, since he's providing the components and can act as an intermediary with the designer.

 

My story isn't changing and I haven't done anything unethical or otherwise.  You are seriously wound around the axel over something that isn't your business quite frankly.  IF I really wanted to screw the system over I wouldn't consult anyone on anything, and you wouldn't know till you saw something on alibaba.... 

 

What I wanted, a cool time killer for next winter that might actually cover the electricity and materials used in making the speakers and some hobby money to reinvest into further projects.  There are lots of people with no space, tools, talent or desire to build these kits but seriously enjoy and value the quality of the sound reproduction.  Had this **** storm not occurred I was trying to work up to making some speakers that don't sound like shrieking shrill cats for my kid's school.  No worries though, I am evil incarnate, destroyer of speakers, seller to chineses.

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post #10422 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 07:20 AM
 
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If you buy something, assemble it and sell it, what does it matter? You just can't claim you designed it. It would be no different than selling your own used speakers, or a used blu-ray, or anything. Any speaker can be bought and re-sold, you can do that to literally any speaker in the world. It's just no one would buy a commercial speaker off you because they can just go to the store and buy it for the same price as you. By assembling these speakers you are providing a service and charging for your time, how is there any debate about this?

If I had a speaker design that I sell as a DIY project, I would be happy if someone wanted to build it and sell it, as long as I was not already selling it pre-built. It just lets more people hear my speaker design who would otherwise not hear it. 99.9% of the people in this world can't even build an ikea cabinet properly, let alone a speaker.

I understand your points Tux, but it's not like he's mass producing these. He's assembling a few for friend's and what not.
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post #10423 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 07:43 AM
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Selling your old speakers on craigslist isn't the same as sell a couple pairs a month at retail plus T&M. At least not to me. And consider the entire context of the discussion regarding XO schematics for speakers no longer listed. No one has a problem with someone buying a pair and building them for a friend and that friend saying thanks here's $20 and a case of beer. But consider the time Erich spends on these kits and ask why someone else should get to form a spin off business (big or small). If someone wanted to do this and donate all the money to lung cancer in Zilch's honor, that would seem like a good idea to me. Remember though that there's a lot of our emotion wrapped up in this thing. It's very fragile. It's amazing it survived this long. A good chunk of Erich's life is buried in this thing.
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post #10424 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 07:55 AM
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I say we change the subject to some neat SEOS speakers. smile.gif
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post #10425 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:13 AM
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I say we change the subject to some neat SEOS speakers. smile.gif
Is there a master list of all the builds using the SEOS?

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post #10426 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:19 AM
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What ever happened to the comparison spreadsheet that was on Google Docs? I really liked it when I was trying to compare all of the SEOS designs. I'm sure it needs to be updated by now which I could do or the original owner may need to, not sure....
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post #10427 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:23 AM
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I say we change the subject to some neat SEOS speakers. smile.gif

Agreed.

In regards to up here in Canada, we are mildly excluded. Only because shipping is pretty cost prohibitive, particularly based on weight. Drivers and flat packs are really heavy and shipping across the border is very costly. I know because I order things from the states from time to time and feel like I own stock in FedEx/UPS. So I get some of the motivation of guys like Pokeme.

I've inquired before about getting a bunch of us southern Ontario folks together in a big "group buy" to have kits shipping to one of those US border warehouses and then pick up and distribute up here, but there just wasn't enough of us to make that worthwhile.

I, myself, can design a speaker myself, but lack the shop space to build cabinets, although I was thinking about just doing it in my backyard space. I personally would be willing to pay someone like Pokeme to build cabinets for me and then I do the design myself.

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post #10428 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:26 AM
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I'm not sure where the master list was posted.

I'm going to take a day off this week and try to get the Fusion and Karma-10 listed along with the Karma-15. There's also 1 or two designs that use dual 8" woofers that extend the Alchemy line up. Then I have to get photos of the Stonehenge subwoofer and the flat packs for those two 10" models, and get photos of the 88-Special flat packs listed. eek.gif

I wish I had time to do some type of master list, but I really don't have time to do that side of the project right now.
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post #10429 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:33 AM
 
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Selling your old speakers on craigslist isn't the same as sell a couple pairs a month at retail plus T&M. At least not to me. And consider the entire context of the discussion regarding XO schematics for speakers no longer listed. No one has a problem with someone buying a pair and building them for a friend and that friend saying thanks here's $20 and a case of beer. But consider the time Erich spends on these kits and ask why someone else should get to form a spin off business (big or small). If someone wanted to do this and donate all the money to lung cancer in Zilch's honor, that would seem like a good idea to me. Remember though that there's a lot of our emotion wrapped up in this thing. It's very fragile. It's amazing it survived this long. A good chunk of Erich's life is buried in this thing.

I'm not trying to tarnish the memory of anyone, I understand the emotion. So far 6 of my family members have battled cancer in some form or another so I'd be happy to donate any profits to the cancer society.

You probably don't know some of the reasons I am so excited about this, as I don't know or understand all the reasons you feel the way you do. I'm probably going to kicked out of my current employment and I'll have a year or two to figure things out, I'm thinking hard about taking a cabinetry making course at Georgian college if I can heal up to be available everyday. I'm living in a haze of 8 different kinds of medication living day by day and wood working I've found to be quite therapeutic (when I'm not cutting off bits of any digits).

I would hope in a couple years time with a cabinetry making course under my belt I'd be able to create nicer looking cabinets faster, and put food on the table by doing kitchen updates, making desks, etc. unless something profound changes speaker stuff will be a cool hobby that pays for itself.

For now though I've bought a few items (calibrated Mic) have been reading anything and everything on crossover networks I can get my hands on and will hourly have a design to contribute :-)
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post #10430 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:35 AM
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AudioJosh,

I will help out any way I can to get things to Canada easier. My busy season is now over and if it made any sense at all I could package up pallets of things that are 100% ready to get a shipping label once they get into Canada. But it would have to be done as a 'group buy' so I can just take a few days in a row to package up everything at one time versus spreading it out over months.

The problem is that my FedEx account only gives discounts in the US. So I have to take things to the post office to get them shipped. I can't imagine standing in line with a few packages that weigh 65lbs each. Especially if it's just to get a shipping quote. If there's an AVS member that I know (like you), or they've been part of the project, I will do that and just ship the packages and they pay me afterwards.

I have been looking around and found a local shipping company that will ship to Canada using their UPS account, then they add in a little extra for their time. But I have no way to actually get estimates without going in and asking. Maybe I can start calling them to ask, or set up some type of email exchange. But again, the problem is when someone wants 3 kits versus 2, or some unusual order that I can't guess the weight on. Maybe I could make a list of speakers in pairs with actual weights and package sizes and if anyone in Canada needs to order, they have to order exactly what's in that package? I just don't know, but I'm always open for ideas.
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post #10431 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:42 AM
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Is there a master list of all the builds using the SEOS?

I have not seen a master list, but I've been typing in the name of the speaker into the search bar for the forum and come up with a pretty long list.

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post #10432 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:43 AM
 
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I've been eyeing some of the eminence bass guitar 4ohm speakers, a pair of them in the 15" size with a larger seos look line they could be affordable for the folks that want a speaker with a large presence in their room. Definitely a dna360 so it could be crossed at a decently low point. Maybe make it a 2.5 way, but as I've said I'm learning.
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post #10433 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post


Is there a master list of all the builds using the SEOS?

 

Im pretty sure I got all of them posted here

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334432/master-index-of-diy-speaker-projects/0_100

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post #10434 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:56 AM
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Erich,

I appreciate all you've done to help us out, and your shipping horns to me previously. I'd like to figure out a way to open up these kits to folks in at least southern Ontario if we could figure out the shipping. I am just not sure if after adding in the shipping, whether it still makes sense to buy the kits for folks here. It could maybe but I don't know.

When we buy raw drivers it is cheaper to buy from a Canadian source then from a discount US source and have them shipped here. For example, its cheaper to buy B&C or Eminence drivers from qcomponents.ca then PartsExpress or usspeakers.com. Its usually cheaper to buy crossover components from solen.ca then PE.

But you get discounts on all the components and when put into a kit makes things very attractively priced, but I am not sure if the cross border shipping wipes all that out.
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post #10435 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 08:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

AudioJosh,

I will help out any way I can to get things to Canada easier. My busy season is now over and if it made any sense at all I could package up pallets of things that are 100% ready to get a shipping label once they get into Canada. But it would have to be done as a 'group buy' so I can just take a few days in a row to package up everything at one time versus spreading it out over months.

The problem is that my FedEx account only gives discounts in the US. So I have to take things to the post office to get them shipped. I can't imagine standing in line with a few packages that weigh 65lbs each. Especially if it's just to get a shipping quote. If there's an AVS member that I know (like you), or they've been part of the project, I will do that and just ship the packages and they pay me afterwards.

I have been looking around and found a local shipping company that will ship to Canada using their UPS account, then they add in a little extra for their time. But I have no way to actually get estimates without going in and asking. Maybe I can start calling them to ask, or set up some type of email exchange. But again, the problem is when someone wants 3 kits versus 2, or some unusual order that I can't guess the weight on. Maybe I could make a list of speakers in pairs with actual weights and package sizes and if anyone in Canada needs to order, they have to order exactly what's in that package? I just don't know, but I'm always open for ideas.

I've got a minivan that can take a 4ft x 4ft and rather tall package if it made sense I can go to Toronto proper to help Audio Josh with pick up, but I'm not able to lift much, part of my limitations lol. I've also got just enough room I can hold a pallet in the garage, warm dry and safe if storage space is a problem or we need a central location. I can givea deposit to someone if there is a concern.
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post #10436 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Im pretty sure I got all of them posted here
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334432/master-index-of-diy-speaker-projects/0_100
Cool.. .Thanks

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post #10437 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 09:11 AM
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How far is Ohio from MN? I've wanted to drive to MN one of these summers and load up my car full of SEOS and drive home, but I wouldn't want to leave my wife and kids there for to long. Maybe a day trip? Alternately a big shipment that could fit in my trunk. But that wouldn't be for a while.
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post #10438 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

Erich,

I appreciate all you've done to help us out, and your shipping horns to me previously. I'd like to figure out a way to open up these kits to folks in at least southern Ontario if we could figure out the shipping. I am just not sure if after adding in the shipping, whether it still makes sense to buy the kits for folks here. It could maybe but I don't know.

When we buy raw drivers it is cheaper to buy from a Canadian source then from a discount US source and have them shipped here. For example, its cheaper to buy B&C or Eminence drivers from qcomponents.ca then PartsExpress or usspeakers.com. Its usually cheaper to buy crossover components from solen.ca then PE.

But you get discounts on all the components and when put into a kit makes things very attractively priced, but I am not sure if the cross border shipping wipes all that out.

It would still be cheaper to just drive across the border and pick them up from a kinek location. They charge like 5 or 10 bucks to hold a package. I buy most of my audio stuff from the states(except cheap amplifiers, so I get warranty) by shipping it to Buffalo/Niagara falls, it is way cheaper than shipping to Canada. Unless the shipping for a large pallet is like 100 bucks into Canada, it's still cheaper to just pick them up from the states. And for many people, driving to the states is closer than driving to Toronto, or wherever the pallet is shipped.

And if you pick it up when you're already in the states for a trip or vacation or whatever, longer than 48 hours, you don't even pay taxes!!
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post #10439 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 06:12 PM
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Hi all, first of all I'd like to say congratulations and thank you to all the contributors of the SEOS project and this incredibly informative thread.

Erich H - Can you please advise what is happening with the plastic SEOS 10 and 15" waveguides? The website (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/seos-15-preorder.html) has them listed as "pre-order" without a price (or update since October 19, 2013) and I can't seem to find any specific info regarding availability in the thread (apologies if I've missed it). Cheers
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post #10440 of 11713 Old 06-09-2014, 06:55 PM
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I, myself, can design a speaker myself, but lack the shop space to build cabinets, although I was thinking about just doing it in my backyard space. I personally would be willing to pay someone like Pokeme to build cabinets for me and then I do the design myself.

http://torontotoollibrary.com/makerspace/

They have a CNC machine.
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