Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 363 - AVS Forum

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DIY Speakers and Subs

Willie's Avatar Willie
05:03 PM Liked: 44
post #10861 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 1,268
Joined: Jun 2001
Erich

I gotta believe it is a little like Field of Dreams - If you build it, they will come.

If you make parts available for DIY prior to a roll-out of a completed 3-way SEOS speaker design I would be in. I love my Cheap Thrills, the louder they play, the better they sound. Based on everyone's comments here, must be a trait of the SEOS with a good compression driver.

A 3-way design with quality components would rock. Literally. Speaking for myself, $600-$1000 for a kit not at all out of range, and certainly not over priced.

Willie
Erich H's Avatar Erich H
05:34 PM Liked: 748
post #10862 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 5,594
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post
Unfortunately Erich is insane and makes no profit on the kits. Ryan gets no cut for the design. I would gladly pay much more, but I'll have to settle and do as erich wishes, donate to a charity with my savings! (Breast cancer, mom just got diagnosed). We need more great people in this world like them.

If this was a kit for a company making it a business, I would guess the kits would have been $700+.

Can't thank Erich, Ryan, and the others involved in the SEOS project enough. I stole these speakers flat out.

I've been debating if something should be set up specifically to fund future projects, or dividing out to designers, or whatever. We'd all love to do more, but things are coming close to being maxed out for me the way they currently are. You should see the number of test woofers/CDs from Eminence, Celestion, Dayton, B&C, FaitalPro, etc are just sitting around after being tested or used for the first design. Shelves full. At some point we have to stop and figure out what the heck we're going to do with all of this before moving forward. Pallets full of flat packs, custom shipping boxes, etc, etc, etc.

Basically, I enjoy what I'm doing a lot, but there's a point coming where the warehouse space alone is completely maxed out, along with the DIY funds to do more as it gets spread out over more projects. Either cut back and not do much extra, or figure out how to expand by enough to make it worth while. The small 'warehouse' next to my landscape business is literally bursting at the seams with not much more usable space.

There should a 'build a storage building' jump starter program out there somewhere!
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick
05:34 PM Liked: 1085
post #10863 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 24,540
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by MX48 View Post
I'm 57. Just got back from Millville amateur day. Raced the 45+, 50+ and 55+ classes.


Man I wanted to hit the Southwick National one day, maybe they will put it back on the schedule at some point. I assume that was your home track. I respect you guys that can go fast in that deep sand.


I am going to say that at some point you will be back to riding motocross...once it's in your blood...
The "wick" just opened back up so perhaps. It's to late to add the dates or track to existing organizations this year so they are just doing open track days, which is better than racing IMO. Cheaper, and more riding time.
MX48's Avatar MX48
05:38 PM Liked: 33
post #10864 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 440
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
The "wick" just opened back up so perhaps. It's to late to add the dates or track to existing organizations this year so they are just doing open track days, which is better than racing IMO. Cheaper, and more riding time.

True about the open practice. But you risk becoming what we call in Georgia a "Professional Practicer". I almost am one now. .
mbyrnes's Avatar mbyrnes
05:45 PM Liked: 183
post #10865 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 3,509
Joined: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I've been debating if something should be set up specifically to fund future projects, or dividing out to designers, or whatever. We'd all love to do more, but things are coming close to being maxed out for me the way they currently are. You should see the number of test woofers/CDs from Eminence, Celestion, Dayton, B&C, FaitalPro, etc are just sitting around after being tested or used for the first design. Shelves full. At some point we have to stop and figure out what the heck we're going to do with all of this before moving forward. Pallets full of flat packs, custom shipping boxes, etc, etc, etc.

Basically, I enjoy what I'm doing a lot, but there's a point coming where the warehouse space alone is completely maxed out, along with the DIY funds to do more as it gets spread out over more projects. Either cut back and not do much extra, or figure out how to expand by enough to make it worth while. The small 'warehouse' next to my landscape business is literally bursting at the seams with not much more usable space.

There should a 'build a storage building' jump starter program out there somewhere!
Even a modest $10-$20 per speaker would help you in future endeavors. It's not like people could get the parts cheaper themselves at that price.

I don't want to see you get burnt out. That's what really matters.
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A
06:10 PM Liked: 270
post #10866 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 4,186
Joined: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post
……...I don't want to see you get burnt out. That's what really matters.
^^^^^ What he said!

BTW, I can't help but feel a little giddy with all the updates to the DIYSoudgroup site. I'm still hitting refresh waiting for that Fusion-15
lousymusician's Avatar lousymusician
06:52 PM Liked: 15
post #10867 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
You should see the number of test woofers/CDs from Eminence, Celestion, Dayton, B&C, FaitalPro, etc are just sitting around after being tested or used for the first design. Shelves full. At some point we have to stop and figure out what the heck we're going to do with all of this before moving forward.
Sounds like step one should be a garage sale. I could be down for the right pair of Faitals or Celestions. Start a clearance section at DIY Sound Group and start listing a few at a time. Or put them on the 'bay.

I hope you bought those test drivers in pairs, selling off singles will be a bit tougher!

Bill
chrapladm's Avatar chrapladm
07:13 PM Liked: 103
post #10868 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 2,979
Joined: Mar 2010
Erich just do a Kickstart project for the storage facility and tell us the link somewhere. Even with my very very small budget I would gladly chip in.
Boxozaxu's Avatar Boxozaxu
08:55 PM Liked: 92
post #10869 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 391
Joined: Oct 2013
How about an annual DIYSoundGroup membership fee.

$ membership fee allows you to purchase kits up to $ value (or some specific line(s) of speakers)
$$ membership fee allows you to purchase kits up to $$ value (or some specific line(s) of speakers)
etc.

Especially if a line of speaker requires expensive parts or a DIYSoundGroup designed component.

That would help differentiate some of these closely priced speakers.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H
09:28 PM Liked: 748
post #10870 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 5,594
Joined: Dec 2007
Certainly wouldn't feel right about membership fees. Heck, I couldn't track that anyway because I always have too many projects going on. I barely have a chance to upload new designs to the site.

Back when the SEOS-12 was going to be done in plastic, things worked out really well because all the DIY forums came together and we did the group buy/prepay on the waveguide to raise the money to get it done. Back then, I think about 300 out of the 1000 needed waveguides preordered over 3 DIY forums. That was awesome stuff and helped out.

But last year when I was going to do the SEOS-15 and SEOS-10, which was obviously a much larger expense.....there were only about 120 prepaid between both sizes. I think it was because the site no longer looked as cheesy and people thought 'I'm not helping out this guy, things look like they're going okay for him'. It was a bit stressful, but I had a Plan B just in case.
Boxozaxu's Avatar Boxozaxu
10:03 PM Liked: 92
post #10871 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 391
Joined: Oct 2013
Well I for one really don't understand how this pre-order stuff works. I'm sure part of it's because I haven't been here since the beginning and I haven't accomplished my lofty goal of reading all 10,869 posts in this thread yet. =) I kind of assumed the pre-order was for people to order waveguides for their own specific speaker design projects. Something I'm not ready to do. But it sounds like it might actually be to purchase waveguides for the speaker kits you sell. I don't know, I have to read the beginning of this thread.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H
10:35 PM Liked: 748
post #10872 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 5,594
Joined: Dec 2007
Getting the injection molds made and getting the waveguides is very expensive. So back then when we decided to try and get the SEOS-12 made up in plastic, I set up a pre-order to help cover costs. People paid the $28 in advance and that money went towards paying for the first 1000 waveguides. I can't really recall exactly how many were ordered. It might have been closer to 400, I'm not sure. But either way, it really helped out.

Once they arrived, people contacted me so we could figure shipping costs, my lady friend had saved cardboard boxes from her work, so that was free, and I packaged them up, and out they went.

Back then it would have been nearly impossible to do that by myself. But everyone helped out. I promised to beg speaker designers to make up designs using the waveguides before they even arrived. One very smart guy was following the thread and contacted about getting the DNA-360's that he had been working with, everything then snow balled to where we are now.

To be 100% honest, I'm actually disappointed in myself for not getting all of this done faster. Packaging kills my spare time to focus on more neat stuff, or make up prototype boxes. I have 3 designers willing to do some higher end stuff and it's difficult to get things to them due to costs and my spare time. I've got gobs of ideas though....they'll be the first to say I'm nuts. As I mentioned before, if it was up to me, this would all just be the beginning of neat things.
chalugadp's Avatar chalugadp
10:45 PM Liked: 1182
post #10873 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 5,684
Joined: Jan 2013
Erich,
Packaging can be trained. My 10&11 year old due most of my packaging now. I simply supervise. There packaging 27" by 27" by 5" weighing 35 lbs. There is 20 pieces that have to go a certain way. I guarantee you could hire a high school girl ( or a teenager you know)whose responsible enough to do the packaging. Charge 5$ more per kit would pay her wage.

You setup a demo example for your big sellers and its done. Complicated one offs and tricky orders may need to be done by you but I'm guessing a good chunk of your orders going out right now are fusion speakers and 1099.
niktak11's Avatar niktak11
10:57 PM Liked: 18
post #10874 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 101
Joined: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Erich,
Packaging can be trained. My 10&11 year old due most of my packaging now. I simply supervise. There packaging 27" by 27" by 5" weighing 35 lbs. There is 20 pieces that have to go a certain way. I guarantee you could hire a high school girl ( or a teenager you know)whose responsible enough to do the packaging. Charge 5$ more per kit would pay her wage.

You setup a demo example for your big sellers and its done. Complicated one offs and tricky orders may need to be done by you but I'm guessing a good chunk of your orders going out right now are fusion speakers and 1099.
If you hire a hoarde of high school girls then I'll volunteer to be an unpaid intern
chalugadp's Avatar chalugadp
11:04 PM Liked: 1182
post #10875 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 5,684
Joined: Jan 2013
After 18 years of teaching I wouldn't get a teenage boy to wash my car at least that's what its like in Canada.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H
11:39 PM Liked: 748
post #10876 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 5,594
Joined: Dec 2007
Well aware on the training sir.....I've had many employees in the past 20 years. Too many. I've mentioned before that I do occasionally get help packaging flat packs and sometimes other things when needed.

People order different things and most packages weigh over 40lbs, many over 50-60lbs.

I guarantee that teenage girl would quit in about 2 hours. Definitely need a bit more than that.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15
11:49 PM Liked: 1225
post #10877 of 11733
07-28-2014 | Posts: 6,685
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Well aware on the training sir.....I've had many employees in the past 20 years. Too many. I've mentioned before that I do occasionally get help packaging flat packs and sometimes other things when needed.

People order lots of different things and most packages weigh over 40lbs, many over 50-60lbs. Some get baffles with roundovers, some don't. Some get flat packs, some don't, some get gloss waveguides, some don't. 5000 crossover parts, schematics, cutting ports to the proper length, cutting waveguide gaskets to the proper length, how many screws, cutting pallet corner protectors, strapping machines, miter saws, routers, etc. Delta Pro 12A, Delta 10A, Delta 10B, Deltalite, Beta-8, Beta-10, Beta-8 16 ohm, Beta-8Cx, Beta-10Cx, FaitalPro what? air core, not iron core inductor you fool!

Multiply that by 20+ different speaker kits with different woofers....... Then 20 flat packs. Not as easy as it seems.

I guarantee that teenage girl would quit in about 2 hours. Definitely need a bit more than that.
So for you it isn't "good workers are hard to find" it's more like "strong workers are hard to find".....lol
clausdk's Avatar clausdk
12:19 AM Liked: 47
post #10878 of 11733
07-29-2014 | Posts: 431
Joined: Jun 2007
Think alot of wished we lived closer so we could come and help out once in a while!

Still intrigued about a higher end design whatever that might entail.

The mysterious FL-450 for instance!
chrapladm's Avatar chrapladm
12:19 AM Liked: 103
post #10879 of 11733
07-29-2014 | Posts: 2,979
Joined: Mar 2010
Erich how big are the packing boxes for a pair of 10" coaxial/volt 10's?

Just the drivers no baffle.
cw5billwade's Avatar cw5billwade
06:56 AM Liked: 132
post #10880 of 11733
07-29-2014 | Posts: 1,495
Joined: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post
Hope more buy them because I really believe strongly in them. They are fantastic
they went up yesterday at 3PM and sold out by 5PM
pgwalsh's Avatar pgwalsh
07:19 AM Liked: 77
post #10881 of 11733
07-29-2014 | Posts: 1,484
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxozaxu View Post
Well I for one really don't understand how this pre-order stuff works. I'm sure part of it's because I haven't been here since the beginning and I haven't accomplished my lofty goal of reading all 10,869 posts in this thread yet. =) I kind of assumed the pre-order was for people to order waveguides for their own specific speaker design projects. Something I'm not ready to do. But it sounds like it might actually be to purchase waveguides for the speaker kits you sell. I don't know, I have to read the beginning of this thread.
I got in on the first pre order. I was so impressed with what Erich and other's had accomplished to that point, I really wanted to see it come to fruition. There were no designs that I was aware of and I did it because I wanted to help and thought it looked like a really cool project. I had some interest in a wave guide speaker (not fulling understanding the concept) and no design experience to speak of, but went in anyway.

Obviously it has come to fruition and has gone way beyond what I expected. I now have some amazing speakers. I don't think someone throwing their hat into the preorder ring at this point has much to worry about, other than what killer design they want to go with.

I've seen cool things happen on the internet, but I've never seen something like this come together in such an open manner. The preorder is just like when you preorder something from Amazon. You order something and wait for it to be manufactured and shipped.
Boxozaxu's Avatar Boxozaxu
12:28 PM Liked: 92
post #10882 of 11733
07-29-2014 | Posts: 391
Joined: Oct 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
I got in on the first pre order. I was so impressed with what Erich and other's had accomplished to that point, I really wanted to see it come to fruition. There were no designs that I was aware of and I did it because I wanted to help and thought it looked like a really cool project. I had some interest in a wave guide speaker (not fulling understanding the concept) and no design experience to speak of, but went in anyway.

Obviously it has come to fruition and has gone way beyond what I expected. I now have some amazing speakers. I don't think someone throwing their hat into the preorder ring at this point has much to worry about, other than what killer design they want to go with.

I've seen cool things happen on the internet, but I've never seen something like this come together in such an open manner. The preorder is just like when you preorder something from Amazon. You order something and wait for it to be manufactured and shipped.
I think it's clearer now but correct me if I'm wrong. For example, the SEOS-10 was up for pre-order this time around. I assume the SEOS-10 plastic injection mold was already made and paid for because it's already included in various kits for sale. So in this round Erich just wanted another shipment of SEOS-10 waveguides for individual sale and for inclusion as part of kits. Since the manufacturer has a minimum order and not wanting to fund/stock the entire 1000 waveguides Erich pre-sold part of the shipment. When the shipment arrives anyone who pre-ordered a waveguide gets just the waveguide. And if you have no experience designing a speaker you can copy a proven design this time around.

So many people to thank, including you pgwalsh, for taking that initial plunge. Without people taking risks this might never had happened.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H
12:37 PM Liked: 748
post #10883 of 11733
07-29-2014 | Posts: 5,594
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No, the injection mold was not paid for when the pre-order was started.

I wanted to get the SEOS-10 and 15 done. Set up the pre-order so people could pay in advance before any molds were actually made. That money goes to help pay for some of the costs involved, like the injection mold. When they're finally done and do come in, I figure it's shipping weight and put the "product" up on the site listed for 1 penny. The people that preordered then add it to their cart so the site can calculate how much their shipping costs are.....they pay the shipping costs and the 1 penny. I package and ship.

There are no pre-orders right now, I just haven't taken the SEOS-10 and SEOS-15 down yet. That preordered started about a year ago if I recall, they were delivered around Christmas.

What you see on the site right now is only up there so people can finalize their order by adding the number they preordered to the cart and paying the shipping. There's no way for me to calculate shipping before the product gets here, so the preorder is only for the product cost.
cw5billwade's Avatar cw5billwade
12:55 PM Liked: 132
post #10884 of 11733
07-29-2014 | Posts: 1,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
..
Not to change the subject but I wanted to thank you again. I really do not see how you can run a business and do this on the side so to speak. Someone would say you don't have a life but I think the opposite is true this is your life. Thanks again! If I were a little closer to Ohio than I would assist you when I could. I do have a slight comment on the way you set up the fusion line up on the web site. I can PM email or tell you here which ever you like.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H
04:14 PM Liked: 748
post #10885 of 11733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post
I do have a slight comment on the way you set up the fusion line up on the web site. I can PM email or tell you here which ever you like.
If you see a mistake, just let me know. I've been reworking things in the past few days (usually late at night), so I'm sure there are some issues.
wvu80's Avatar wvu80
11:27 PM Liked: 102
post #10886 of 11733
07-29-2014 | Posts: 555
Joined: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
If you see a mistake, just let me know. I've been reworking things in the past few days (usually late at night), so I'm sure there are some issues.
I just clicked on the DIYsoundgroup site, looking at how the the Fusion Series is now organized.


aaronlinkous's Avatar aaronlinkous
02:13 AM Liked: 50
post #10887 of 11733
07-30-2014 | Posts: 317
Joined: Jan 2007
No more alchemy mtm? Never heard about this center.
Erich H's Avatar Erich H
06:09 AM Liked: 748
post #10888 of 11733
07-30-2014 | Posts: 5,594
Joined: Dec 2007
I just haven't put the Alchemy MTM back up yet.

Eventually I need to round up some finished photos from DIY guys to put on each page. so people can see what the finished speakers can look like. I can also put links to builds and things like that on each page now.
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A
08:18 AM Liked: 270
post #10889 of 11733
07-30-2014 | Posts: 4,186
Joined: Dec 2008
How is the tembral match between the EOS and SEOS speakers? I seem to remember the website used to mention which speakers worked well with others for mains and surrounds, but I don't see it anymore. I'm trying to decide between the Fusion-6 and Fusion-8 for surrounds with the Fusion-12 or Fusion-15. Is this a question that can be answered for the Fusion-15 without seeing the final design? I'd like to go ahead and order some surrounds so that I can start assembling and get some measurement of them.
Audio Geek's Avatar Audio Geek
08:41 AM Liked: 33
post #10890 of 11733
07-30-2014 | Posts: 190
Joined: Feb 2014
Jeff Bagby designed both the Fusion 8 and the 12 so they should be voiced similarly. I don't know about the other speakers. But many AVRs can match the surrounds to the mains (at least attempt to).

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