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Old 07-30-2014, 07:47 AM
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I think it's a matter of a lot of factors JPA. One is the designer. I recall reading that the variations from designer to designer could be as great or greater than the differences between the actual parts (like DNA360 to 205)

So something like a FUSION 12 + FUSION 8 Rears + FUSION 8 MTM CENTER work really well together (all done by Jeff Bagby with like style crossover work).

In general the timber differences isn't a huge concern IMO. There was a really good explanation and thread about that in general around here recently I read, saying that essentially there is a million other things to consider and worry about before worry about the TIMBER match of one speaker to another. If remember where I'll dig it up, It was a post from a calibrator or Dennis or Nyal or something like that I remember but I can't remember which thread and person... lol. Too much AVS for me and too much reading, I'm starting to forget more than I know.

EDIT: Looks like someone snuck in just before me ^ Yup. What he said.

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Old 07-30-2014, 07:49 AM
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Bassment has the FUSION 8 and 12 BTW... if you want a real opinion. He's around here a lot (Jwagstaff) and I'd value his opinion.

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Old 07-30-2014, 07:58 AM
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Is Jeff doing the new Fusion 15 as well? The website has Matt listed as the designer for the new Fusion 15.

What about off-axis response? I understand you can EQ two speakers to have the same voicing, but if the off-axis response is different between the two, then you can only correct them at one axis. This seems like it could be a problem for a surround, but I don't know for sure.

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Old 07-30-2014, 08:06 AM
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Matt did it and said it's better than the old FUSION 15.

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Old 07-30-2014, 08:07 AM
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OFF AXIS is mostly a result of the wave guide and tweeter used.

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Old 07-30-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Matt did it and said it's better than the old FUSION 15.
Have these made it into the wild yet? I'm checking the site daily

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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
OFF AXIS is mostly a result of the wave guide and tweeter used.
So are the off-axis response for the various EOS and SEOS speakers similar?

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Old 07-30-2014, 08:34 AM
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I'd think that a design using the SEOS15 + DNA360 would be the same as another design also using the SEOS15 + DNA360 so yes.

And the old FUSION12 and 15 used the SEOS12, which is why the new 15 has the SEOS15 and got redesigned. So the answer is yes some SEOS15 are out in the wild, but it's still new so not many (yet) compared to the SEOS12.

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Old 07-30-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I just haven't put the Alchemy MTM back up yet.

Eventually I need to round up some finished photos from DIY guys to put on each page. so people can see what the finished speakers can look like. I can also put links to builds and things like that on each page now.
Just me being nit picking . I like to click on the leftcolumn regardless if there is a pop out menu or not. When I do with the Fusionnow there are so many items it is confusing would it be better if when youclicked on the Fusion link in the left column that the next page is only themain group (same as pop out menu) then when you click on an item it will itwill take you to the options like when you click on the pop out menu.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:32 AM
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I really don't know how to do that stuff right now. I know what you mean, but anything that's in the pop out menu shows up when you click the larger category. There might be a way to fix it, but I'm not really sure because I have tried to at least remove the flat packs. Doesn't seem to work.

I'm not even remotely close to being a web designer, so I'm just happy when the site works.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:55 AM
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Can you leave everything listed and just adjust the prices to $9999999 to prevent people from buying it ?? If they do and check out then you can retire

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Old 07-30-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I really don't know how to do that stuff right now. I know what you mean, but anything that's in the pop out menu shows up when you click the larger category. There might be a way to fix it, but I'm not really sure because I have tried to at least remove the flat packs. Doesn't seem to work.

I'm not even remotely close to being a web designer, so I'm just happy when the site works.
Erich, I would gladly offer my services if you need help. My cost would be the same margin markup you charge us
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:43 PM
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I am really curious to learn about the new Fusion-15. Is the crossover lower than in the Fusion-12 so that the directivity is controlled even up to lower frequencies?

That would be neat...

Can someone please answer how big the cabinet is going to be?

Building a 9.2.6 HT with ◤SEOS-24◥ LCR and 12 Beta 10CX coaxial satellites.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post
Just me being nit picking . I like to click on the left column regardless if there is a pop out menu or not. When I do with the Fusion now there are so many items it is confusing. (It) would be better if when you clicked on the Fusion link in the left column that the next page is only the main group (same as pop out menu) then when you click on an item it will it will take you to the options like when you click on the pop out menu.
If I'm reading what you are saying correctly (and I'm not sure that I am) it USED to be the way you think it should be changed to. IMO THAT was not really confusing, but in my view, was not as logical.

Now when you click on that left menu, there are six model choices, 4-6-8-10-12 and 15. What is confusing about that?
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
I am really curious to learn about the new Fusion-15. Is the crossover lower than in the Fusion-12 so that the directivity is controlled even up to lower frequencies?

That would be neat...

Can someone please answer how big the cabinet is going to be?
I hate to speculate, but I think I remember the cab being 2.0 to 2.5 cuft, which is about twice the size (volume) of the 1.0 cuft Fusion 10. The CT box is 17" wide, and 24" tall, 16 " deep. My CT design is sealed, so it is probably closer to the 2.0 cuft size.

I have a Fusion 10 with flatpack, and a Cheap Thrill which used the 15" woofer and 12" SEOS. The Fusion 10 is a big speaker, but that CT is REALLY big, and needs a big space. The Fusion 10 is much more versatile IMO, as I have used them as mains in a living room 5.1 system, and in 2.1 computer setup near field. Fusion 10's are OUTSTANDING for both.

I'll see if I can get a side-by-side picture for you. It's not easy, because that CT weighs at least 65 pounds, and it is hard to lug around.
+++

Here is MTG90's box with a 15" woofer:


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Old 07-30-2014, 09:31 PM
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Iirc its 17.25" wide by 29.5" high by 14.25" deep.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:05 PM
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Great, thanks!

I presume the crossover would be the same as the 88-special, which uses the same SEOS-15? 950 Hz it says on the product page, correct?

It's actually for the (4) surrounds with SEOS-24 for LCR. I will choose between the Fusion-12 and the latest Fusion-15. The Fusion-12 has some impressive specs already! But it uses a 1300 Hz crossover, so I reckon the Fusion-15 is better between 950 and 1300 Hz as far as even directivity is concerned? Which is a great asset for a surround speaker.

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Old 07-30-2014, 11:19 PM
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What has anyone thought about the 88 special in terms of a main speaker?

I am only curious because I still have my WG in boxes that are similar and 8's are cheap. So while 15's might be better I do like to be different.
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:20 AM
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What has anyone thought about the 88 special in terms of a main speaker?

I am only curious because I still have my WG in boxes that are similar and 8's are cheap. So while 15's might be better I do like to be different.
It could work. Would need to be behind at screen, ( ugly shape IMO)
Can't hurt to try.
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:11 AM
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No more alchemy mtm? Never heard about this center.
Quote:
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I just haven't put the Alchemy MTM back up yet.

Eventually I need to round up some finished photos from DIY guys to put on each page. so people can see what the finished speakers can look like. I can also put links to builds and things like that on each page now.
As soon as the Alchemy MTM's are back up on the site I'm ordering:
2 Alchemy MTM for R/L
1 Alchemy MTM Center for center
2 either Fusion-8 or Volt-8 for surrounds, these are side surrounds due to open floor plan so I'm leaning towards the Volt-8.
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:17 AM
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For me I would use it as a center channel when watching movies. BUT when I am outside I would be using them as PA mains. I have always liked the dual 12 under neath a big horn look. I have some 14" wide WG's and 8's are always cheap so I was curious. I think the 88 special is almost 500 dollars for me. I could buy a pair of DNA 360's and more 8's and try and build my own but I dont know yet. Still trying to see what the cheapest options are going to be for me.

Most of the kits are very expensive because of the shipping to Australia. BUT I now have a dealer here who can get BC speakers for pretty good prices. So that helps when Erich comes out with higher end kits. Although shipping SEOS 15's may not be very cheap at all either. Everything is always difficult for me.

I look forward to seeing an 18 Sound or BC kit in the future.
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:32 AM
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As soon as the Alchemy MTM's are back up on the site I'm ordering:
2 Alchemy MTM for R/L
1 Alchemy MTM Center for center
2 either Fusion-8 or Volt-8 for surrounds, these are side surrounds due to open floor plan so I'm leaning towards the Volt-8.
Are u limited for space or cost ?
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:39 AM
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Are u limited for space or cost ?
The 1099's are just too big for my family room 5.1 set-up.
combo "family room + Outdoor HT " DIY speakers.

I've considered 3-4 5 time to use them, and 36" tall makes them standout "too much", the Alchemy-MTM fits into the same space as my existing 1996 AT System 350's


I'll be putting the surrounds not under the beam (those are ATS Sys 354 di-poles re-wired to act as bi-poles so no phase null), but on the sidewalls and toe them down/forward.
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:56 AM
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Tough room ^

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Old 07-31-2014, 05:18 AM
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Gorgeous house.
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:30 AM
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I'll trade u houses
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:05 AM
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Gorgeous house.
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I'll trade u houses
Thx, it's the 1st house we built from scratch, like everyone says you learn on the first one and the 2nd one is your "perfect" home. This house is truly "home", exterior re-staining PIA every 5 years and all. We won't sell this and build a 2nd home, unless hit the lottery or other non-planned life changing event happens.
We are blessed with ability to plan/build/own this home, as we are basically "avg joe family" that just is part of the community.

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Tough room ^
Yea it's not made for a balanced front soundstage....so compromise was done.

At one point I was going to try and "squeeze" in R/L next to the HDTV, like shown below, but then the RH speaker gets too close to the fireplace, so decided to keep it on the RH side of the fireplace.


When you are seated away the soundstage "works", not perfect.
It's casual family 5.1 HDTV viewing and also general surround sound for events.
The real HT is 11.2 in the basement.....
But, as stated in my link we do outdoor movie theater event hence I'm looking for the best DIY Soundgroup speakers for that and this room, so any thoughts/advice are appreciated.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:08 AM
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What you have for equipment in the real ht ?
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:21 AM
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What you have for equipment in the real ht ?
11.2 build thread, currently I listen in Neo:X for all content
Moving past 7.1 into 9.1/11.x/3D ObjectAudio in HT via AudysseyDSX/DolbyPLIIz/DTS Neo:X™/Auro-3D
HT overall thread
"The Envelope" Home Theatre 2014: Mike R(mtbdudex) DIY 11.3 Audio, 2.35 Scope 130in screen
Front view:


Equipment listed in this sketch layout, AVR is Denon 4520CI + Emotiva XPA-3 for Frt R/C/L


I'm good for the basement HT till 2016/2017, when I'll upgrade to 4k PJ, AT screen, full baffle front wall with speakers behind screen (full range whatever DIY Soundgroup has then to meet Dolby Atmos rqmts). There is too much change going on in video and audio, and my 2012 upgrade set me back nearly $5k total.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
What has anyone thought about the 88 special in terms of a main speaker?

I am only curious because I still have my WG in boxes that are similar and 8's are cheap. So while 15's might be better I do like to be different.
I am in that situation right now, trying to decide to go for 2 more Special 88's to match the center or perhaps the upcomming Fusion 15 as left/right.

With shipping and taxes the 88 special is around 500 dollars for me as well btw. Still cheap, everything is expensive where I live.

What to do
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:00 AM
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Hello everyone,

In regards to the original title to this thread:

I am a newbie to this forum and this hobby as well. I stumbled across this site and started reading here about building speakers and became very intrigued with the idea of making something with my own hands that could enhance my love of listening to music and watching movies. I bit the bullet and my kids and I have started building "The Sub That Cannot Be Named".



Even though I am nowhere near done, I am already researching and planning more builds. My "Favorites" list of threads on my browser has extended past 1 screen within a month. My poor wife has no idea what is in store for her.

What gives me the confidence to pursue this is the incredible support that I have seen on this site. There is no place like it that I have witnessed on the internet. People freely giving literally hours of their time, their ideas, their well considered advice to others with no strings attached, no ulterior motive. The fact that there even is a site like DIYSOUND simply amazes me.

You all have something special here.

IMHO, This Site "Wins The Internet."
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