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post #10921 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 11:01 AM
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Needs about 200 more thumbs up ^

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #10922 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I just haven't put the Alchemy MTM back up yet.

Eventually I need to round up some finished photos from DIY guys to put on each page. so people can see what the finished speakers can look like. I can also put links to builds and things like that on each page now.
Feel free to use mine for classix I'd offer to photograph other stuff as well, but I'm all the way in NY
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post #10923 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ORIF View Post

What gives me the confidence to pursue this is the incredible support that I have seen on this site. There is no place like it that I have witnessed on the internet. People freely giving literally hours of their time, their ideas, their well considered advice to others with no strings attached, no ulterior motive. The fact that there even is a site like DIYSOUND simply amazes me.

You all have something special here.

IMHO, This Site "Wins The Internet."
I think some of us needed to here that. Thank you.
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post #10924 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Certainly wouldn't feel right about membership fees. Heck, I couldn't track that anyway because I always have too many projects going on. I barely have a chance to upload new designs to the site.

Back when the SEOS-12 was going to be done in plastic, things worked out really well because all the DIY forums came together and we did the group buy/prepay on the waveguide to raise the money to get it done. Back then, I think about 300 out of the 1000 needed waveguides preordered over 3 DIY forums. That was awesome stuff and helped out.

But last year when I was going to do the SEOS-15 and SEOS-10, which was obviously a much larger expense.....there were only about 120 prepaid between both sizes. I think it was because the site no longer looked as cheesy and people thought 'I'm not helping out this guy, things look like they're going okay for him'. It was a bit stressful, but I had a Plan B just in case.
I see the problem as this: you are straddling the empowerment of people to DIY the speakers and along the way you have created a good (SEOS) which nobody else does. So that's a product that you can't just tell someone to make.

Ultimately you have to decide whether you are more fulfilled just telling people how to do it and where to buy the parts, and perhaps ONLY selling the SEOS, (and whatever other proprietary stuff you make) and just let people go on their own buying the kits for a few bucks more.

I think what some people are saying about having a club to get discounts isn't a bad one, but if it becomes a business with fees and such then it might not be worth all the headache. It would only be worth the headache if you dove in to producing speaker designs as a business and paying the designers a cut, and becoming like the Monoprice of speakers.

Otherwise, I would just step back and maybe only sell the proprietary stuff you have developed that people can't buy anywhere else, and make them fend for themselves with commmercial drivers, components, MDF, etc.

CAVIAT: I plan on buying the speaker kits from you for all my future projects, so long as you keep this up! So don't take what I say as a vote against what you are currently doing, because if you keep it going I'm totally going to take advantage of this wonderful offering you have made!

I hope this helps and it's not meant to be a destructive comment. I sometimes have trouble getting across the meaning and good intentions that my words have.
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post #10925 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Feel free to use mine for classix I'd offer to photograph other stuff as well, but I'm all the way in NY
I'm pretty sure I saved those photos to put up. Oddly enough though.....that quick speaker review never seemed to appear!

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post #10926 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I'm pretty sure I saved those photos to put up. Oddly enough though.....that quick speaker review never seemed to appear!
Totally forgot. Will add it now!
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post #10927 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
I think some of us needed to here that. Thank you
Especially after the reaming you got in the Vancouver thread that spilled into Fatshaft's thread
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post #10928 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 06:23 PM
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I spy with my little eye, a dual 8" Alchemy tower...

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...tower-kit.html
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post #10929 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 07:10 PM
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You forgot to say.....with a cheesy photo.

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post #10930 of 12677 Old 07-31-2014, 07:26 PM
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mtbdudex - I looked at your first living photo and was like...waaaaait, I've been there! Seems like a long time ago.
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post #10931 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
There are no pre-orders right now, I just haven't taken the SEOS-10 and SEOS-15 down yet. That preordered started about a year ago if I recall, they were delivered around Christmas.

What you see on the site right now is only up there so people can finalize their order by adding the number they preordered to the cart and paying the shipping. There's no way for me to calculate shipping before the product gets here, so the preorder is only for the product cost.
.... so there is no way I could order a pair of plastic SEOS-10 at the moment, or even likely in the future....?
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post #10932 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 03:30 AM
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Erich has them in stock. You can buy them now!
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post #10933 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 05:06 AM
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I just have to get photos and get them listed on the site.

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post #10934 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilYoda View Post
mtbdudex - I looked at your first living photo and was like...waaaaait, I've been there! Seems like a long time ago.
Flashback to Spring 2011 HEMI meet, yea that seems ages ago.
I think thebland (Jeff) will be hosting one Winter 2015.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post
I spy with my little eye, a dual 8" Alchemy tower...

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...tower-kit.html
Me too, but it's not available to put into shopping cart, just a "teaser"......
I need 8 ohm; (2) MTM R/L and (1) C asap, as my target is Labor day weekend outdoor movie event, heck I want to show off them to all who join!
Subwoofer duty will be via my 12" ported DIY Soundgroup sub also, so a full family room with double duty part-time outdoor speakers. Driven by 5 year old Denon 4308CI, reliable workhorse AVR.
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post #10935 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 10:31 AM
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Did the alchemy dual woofer models just change into dual 16 ohm woofers? The older ones were dual 8 ohm woofers right?
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post #10936 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Did the alchemy dual woofer models just change into dual 16 ohm woofers? The older ones were dual 8 ohm woofers right?
Erich told me desire was overall 8 ohm speaker vs prior 6 ohm so woofer is tweaked on new one
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post #10937 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 12:52 PM
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Erich;
The fusion8-center kit is available to order
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/fusion8-center-kit.html
My Q is this the new 8 ohm version and your text is wrong?
It says 6 ohm, yet the parts are same as new fusion-8 mtm
Quote:
2- 16 ohm 8" Eminence woofers: $129.981- Denovo DNA-205: $32
1- EOS-8 waveguide: $11.501- Set of crossover parts: $30.021- CNC cut front baffle: $161- Port: $51- Set of Screws and gaskets: $1.50

Model Fusion - 8 Alchemy Center Designer's Name Jeff Bagby Woofer 8" Eminence (dual) Tweeter Denovo DNA-205 in an EOS-8 waveguide Sensitivity 98.5dB - 2.83V/1m Nominal Impedance 6 Ohm Frequency Response 65hz - 20khz Crossover Point 2500hz Recommended Power 10 - 300 watts Enclosure Type Ported Overall Dimension TBA Included Parts 2 - Eminence 8" woofers
1 - Denovo DNA-205 1" compression driver
1 - CNC cut baffle
1 - EOS-8 waveguide
4 - Slot ports
1 - Set of Crossover components
Screws for woofer and tweeter
Alchemy mtm
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...y-mtm-kit.html
Quote:
We wanted to be sure the Alchemy MTM could easily be powered by virtually any receiver on the market, yet still handle the power of an external amplifier if needed. Eminence helped out and made custom woofers that would give us a very high sensitivity speaker while still maintaining an 8 ohm load for your receiver.
The EOS-8 allowed for a narrow 9" cabinet and close spacing between the woofers and compression driver.

Flat packs will be available soon.

Price Break Down: 2- 16 ohm 8" Denovo DW816 woofers: $129.981- Denovo DNA-205: $32
1- EOS-8 waveguide: $11.501- Set of crossover parts: TBA1- CNC cut front baffle: $121- Port: $31- Set of Screws and gaskets: $1.50
odel Alchemy MTM Designer's Name Jeff Bagby Woofer Two: 16ohm 8" Denovo DW816 Tweeter Denovo DNA-205 in a EOS-8 waveguide Sensitivity 98.5dB - 2.83V/1m Nominal Impedance 8 Ohm Frequency Response 60hz - 20khz Crossover Point 2300hz Recommended Power 10 - 450 watts Enclosure Type Ported Overall Dimension 10"w x 27"h x 12" deep Included Parts 2 - Denovo DW816 8" woofers (16ohm)
1 - Denovo DNA-205 1" compression driver
1 - CNC cut baffle
1 - EOS-8 waveguide
1 - Slot port
1 - Set of Crossover components
Screws for woofer and tweeter
If that center is indeed the 8 ohm version I'll place my order for 1 asap, plus crossover
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/fusion-...crossover.html

[edit]
I see the 8" woofer is different, so I'll wait on the center BOM to get updated to the overall 8 ohm design spec....

Last edited by mtbdudex; 08-01-2014 at 12:55 PM. Reason: ok - 8" woofer is different, my mistake
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post #10938 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 03:11 PM
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I just put those new models up 2 days ago and need to go through everything and make sure it's all correct. I forgot to change 6 ohm to 8 ohm.....you got me!

There probably won't be any assembled crossovers for a little while. The ones that were listed were for the previous model. Trying to get assembled crossovers for all speakers or PCB's made for all speakers really adds up after awhile because there needs to be double the number of crossover parts ordered. And of course the PCB's aren't cheap and need to be ordered in fairly high numbers.

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post #10939 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I just put those new models up 2 days ago and need to go through everything and make sure it's all correct. I forgot to change 6 ohm to 8 ohm.....you got me!

There probably won't be any assembled crossovers for a little while. The ones that were listed were for the previous model. Trying to get assembled crossovers for all speakers or PCB's made for all speakers really adds up after awhile because there needs to be double the number of crossover parts ordered. And of course the PCB's aren't cheap and need to be ordered in fairly high numbers.
Question is how "long" is a little while?
My end goal is these are done for Labor day weekend, all 5. Say Wed 8/27 all done.
The Fusion-8 2 surrounds hopefully I get those week of 8/4.
In reality that gives me 3 weekends + weeknights after kids are in bed.
I could get all boxes done and built/painted, and wait for the MTM crossovers till Mon 8/25 as drop dead date here in Howell, Michigan, just North of you.

For grouping, would it be better for me to order the center/horizontal MTM now since I can, and then the R/L vertical MTM when those are on your site?
That way I could in essence build 3 1.3 cu ft boxes using the center MTM as that common template for the periphery.
Or, wait till you have the R/L vertical MTM's done and then you bundle them in 1 pkg?
Depends on the vertical MTM 2 faceplate?

Sorry for so many Q's.

Oh, 1 more thing, since these are replacing my Atlantic Technology System 350's, a while back I saw a DIY Soundgroup faceplate, how can I get 5 of those for these?
Were they metal or 3D plastic Injection or ??
It would add a touch that I feel would be well deserved.
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post #10940 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post
I spy with my little eye, a dual 8" Alchemy tower...

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...tower-kit.html
Apparently, there is this nifty 88 special flat pack that can be ordered with it.
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post #10941 of 12677 Old 08-01-2014, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I just put those new models up 2 days ago and need to go through everything and make sure it's all correct. I forgot to change 6 ohm to 8 ohm.....you got me!

.
Hey, it's August and this is your first mistake of the year?

You're doing OK.
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post #10942 of 12677 Old 08-02-2014, 03:59 PM
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I am still looking out for a speaker for surround duties that would complement the SEOS-24 LCR still in the works. I had my mind set on the Fusion-15 Sentinel with the 15" woofer and SEOS-15. Or alternatively the Fusion-12. For the Top speakers, I had the V-10 Volt coax in mind.

But the The 88 special, also with the SEOS-15 has me thinking... It's short enough for a ceiling mounted speaker! Especially if the cabinet is slanted for the baffle to be aimed at the listener.

And: what if we would rearrange the woofers into a vertical WTW, same as my LCR? That would be one cool surround speaker! I can do that with the exact same crossover, correct?

The only minor downside is that it seems designed to be crossed over @ 80 Hz, hence no experimenting on my part with a much lower crossover.

To recapitulate: 4 WTW 88 Special for surround and 4 slanted 88 Special for ceiling speaker. Tell me I am crazy or something.

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post #10943 of 12677 Old 08-02-2014, 03:59 PM
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double post, please remove

Or not: OT, but my son and I blew the cellulose thermal insulation in the flat roof today. I noticed that this did wonders for the acoustics of the space. The paper fluffy is held in place by an armored plastic. Turns out to be a great midway+bass trap!

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Last edited by erwinfrombelgium; 08-02-2014 at 04:05 PM.
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post #10944 of 12677 Old 08-02-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
And: what if we would rearrange the woofers into a vertical WTW, same as my LCR? That would be one cool surround speaker! I can do that with the exact same crossover, correct?
The 88? I am of course not the designer, or even a designer at all, but I believe the side-by-side woofers are necessary because in that layout they approximate in some ways the horizontal directivity characteristics of a single larger woofer and are as a result a far better match for that 15" waveguide. Change the layout as described and I think your off-axis response and overall power response is going to be lousy, and other bad things that are way over my head will probably happen.
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post #10945 of 12677 Old 08-02-2014, 08:18 PM
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Erich can I get a shipping package dimensions for a pair of Fusion 8's without the 8's?

I have 8's already and would just need the rest.
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post #10946 of 12677 Old 08-03-2014, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post
The 88? I am of course not the designer, or even a designer at all, but I believe the side-by-side woofers are necessary because in that layout they approximate in some ways the horizontal directivity characteristics of a single larger woofer and are as a result a far better match for that 15" waveguide. Change the layout as described and I think your off-axis response and overall power response is going to be lousy, and other bad things that are way over my head will probably happen.
Actually, a vertical configuration of woofers should have a wider horizontal directivity than the horizontal configuration (or rather, the additional woofer narrows directivity in the opposite axis) ... but it may not match the waveguide, at least the way the crossover is designed. Good question, though.

Last edited by Audio Geek; 08-03-2014 at 07:37 AM.
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post #10947 of 12677 Old 08-03-2014, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Geek View Post
Actually, a vertical configuration of woofers should have a wider horizontal directivity than the horizontal configuration (or rather, the additional woofer narrows directivity in the opposite axis) ... but it may not match the waveguide, at least the way the crossover is designed. Good question, though.
Exactly. The horizontal woofer array exhibits greater directivity (less dispersion) such that it matches up with the waveguide at the crossover point, one of the main design features of all the 2-way SEOS speakers. When I said moving the woofers could lead to "lousy off axis" I didn't mean "less" or "diminished" horizontal dispersion, I meant the speaker as a whole would no longer have well-matched directivity around the crossover point.
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post #10948 of 12677 Old 08-03-2014, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post
Exactly. The horizontal woofer array exhibits greater directivity (less dispersion) such that it matches up with the waveguide at the crossover point, one of the main design features of all the 2-way SEOS speakers. When I said moving the woofers could lead to "lousy off axis" I didn't mean "less" or "diminished" horizontal dispersion, I meant the speaker as a whole would no longer have well-matched directivity around the crossover point.
I will wait for the guru's here to have their say about it. Otherwise, I'd use the 88-special with the baffle as designed but in a slanted cabinet for the on-ceiling speakers while using the revised Fusion-15 Sentinel with the same SEOS-15 and tweeter for Surrounds.

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post #10949 of 12677 Old 08-03-2014, 09:01 AM
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Antisuck is a guru !
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post #10950 of 12677 Old 08-03-2014, 09:49 AM
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Clearly you should pay no attention to that tuxedocivic fella, he has no idea what he's talking about.

And yes, waiting for input from the gurus (tux or others) is a good plan.
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