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post #10981 of 12677 Old 08-07-2014, 05:34 PM
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If you used a coaxial speaker outside I would not expect to get down to 40hz. I would shoot for something much higher and use a subwoofer. to crossover to. That way you dont have the bass driver in the Coaxial moving to much. I was looking at using some of the Volt 8's or 10's in a horn design but then crossing over around 100hz. I also looked at the BC 12 coaxial but they got to expensive for my nonexistent budget.
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post #10982 of 12677 Old 08-08-2014, 11:16 AM
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What's the vertical dispersion of the SEOS waveguides? I think I read somewhere it's 40 degrees? So 20 degrees in positive axis and 20 degrees in negative axis?

The horizontal dispersion on the first post is 90 degrees, 45 in the positive and negative axis, applies to all the sizes of SEOS waveguides, right?
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post #10983 of 12677 Old 08-08-2014, 11:52 AM
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Isn't that on the first post of this thread?

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post #10984 of 12677 Old 08-08-2014, 12:27 PM
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the horizontal is, but I don't see the vertical. And I don't think it says if that dispersion pattern applies for all seos from 6" to 24" (I assume it does)
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post #10985 of 12677 Old 08-08-2014, 12:44 PM
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I believe the SEOS waveguides have a 90x60 pattern. I can't find where that came from ATM, though.
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post #10986 of 12677 Old 08-08-2014, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I just haven't put the Alchemy MTM back up yet.

Eventually I need to round up some finished photos from DIY guys to put on each page. so people can see what the finished speakers can look like. I can also put links to builds and things like that on each page now.
Feel free to use my pics Erich,

found here, http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/i...sg3487#msg3487

PS, When are the smaller coaxials coming? And do you think you'll be able to ship to Aus? I'm not coming to the US now

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post #10987 of 12677 Old 08-11-2014, 10:55 AM
 
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I'm thinking of buying a few Fusion Tempest 12's for my front speakers. My biggest holdup is the look. Been drooling over the appearance of such things as SVS and these are just a total 180 from that. I'm sure they sound amazing especially for the price, so that probably outweighs things. Otherwise I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the appearance issue. I guess I am going to try to build some full size towers then cover the drivers in grill cloth. At that point it shouldn't look much different than a Klipsch RF-7. Not sure if I should try to just paint everything black or use black oak veneer. The problem with veneer is with that baffle. With paint I could just build a tall blank tower then put the baffle on top just like usual. I can't do that with veneer, I'd have to install another piece of wood under the baffle that goes to the floor then put veneer over both it and the baffle so it looks like it is one piece.
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post #10988 of 12677 Old 08-11-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
Not sure if I should try to just paint everything black or use black oak veneer. The problem with veneer is with that baffle. With paint I could just build a tall blank tower then put the baffle on top just like usual. I can't do that with veneer, I'd have to install another piece of wood under the baffle that goes to the floor then put veneer over both it and the baffle so it looks like it is one piece.
You can request the baffle without a roundover. Mention it in the order notes. It'll be easier to make seamless with the 2nd piece going to the floor.

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post #10989 of 12677 Old 08-11-2014, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10990 of 12677 Old 08-12-2014, 05:50 AM
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Reading this thread, http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/i...hp?topic=371.0
Is this a recommend best practice?
Quote:
Waveguide Dampening

Not being one to do anything half-way, I decided, hey, let's make that horn sound as good as absolutely possible. When knocking on the outside of the horn as-is it sounds fairly neutral, but rings out a bit like rapping a block of 1x4 wood. Getting the idea from other horn enthusists I added about a 1/4" layer of plumber's putty mastic material all behind the waveguide. From the throat right up to where it meets up with the bezel. This used exactly one tub's worth (400g) per speaker. Total cost $5/pair.

Before:

after


Did it make any difference to the sound? Can't tell ya. I only listened to a single speaker for about 30 mins before adding it. What I can say, though is, now when you rap it with the knuckles it sounds completely different. A very dead-sounding thud - almost like you're knocking on a rock. That's can't hurt the sound as far as I'm concerned.
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post #10991 of 12677 Old 08-14-2014, 01:04 AM
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Sob story here...

I purchased a 15" flat pack kit when diysoundgroup was just beginning... canceled it, erich was slammed with orders and sent it by accident, erich being the cool guy he is just said "heres a refund, keep the box on me, my mistake", felt bad for him since hes offering AMAZING products for the price, so i paid erich the $160 or whatever it was for the flat pack anyways because who couldnt use another subwoofer!!?

Well.. i assembled it, then didnt really have any space in my room (i have a ton of subs already), so its been sitting in my garage for like a year!! I also stupidly bought a dayton titanic mkIII before i had finished it and saw how big it was!!

My question is, i havent really been keeping up to date but is my baffle only good for the titanic mkIII? or can is there another woofer that can fit in the titanic mkIII baffle? I have both for sale and i want to know if i should only sell them together (since only the mk4 is available) or if i can split them up?

(shameless plug: my signature has the listing. any Bay Area people interested let me know)
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post #10992 of 12677 Old 08-14-2014, 11:58 AM
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I was looking at the JBL cinema speakers. I noticed some have two horns, one for high frequencies and another for the mids. Has nobody ever considered doing this with the SEOS?

Building a 9.2.6 HT with ◤SEOS-24◥ LCR and 12 Beta 10CX coaxial satellites.
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post #10993 of 12677 Old 08-14-2014, 05:15 PM
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Erwin,

One of the design points of SEOS is to not HAVE to do that. Separate tweeters mean lobing issues, the SEOS horns (because they are 1" types that function down into the midrange) allow most of the position- critical frequency range to come from one point.

(At least, that's what I had assumed)

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet http://libinst.com/SynergyCalc/
XSim -free crossover designer and simulator http://libinst.com/Xsim/XSimSetup.exe
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post #10994 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 02:17 AM
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Okay, thanks!

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post #10995 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Erwin,

One of the design points of SEOS is to not HAVE to do that. Separate tweeters mean lobing issues, the SEOS horns (because they are 1" types that function down into the midrange) allow most of the position- critical frequency range to come from one point.

(At least, that's what I had assumed)
Bill:
The 2nd horn is for the midrange. (maybe it isn't; I didn't look at a picture of the JBL. If not, suppose it was) Consider a SEOS below a conical mid horn with a vented rear chamber. You would get most of the same benefits for the 100-1000 hz range as you get in a Synergy with high efficiency, low excursion with multiple drivers and horn gain, and acoustic low pass filtering without the problems of trying to extend the crossover past 1 Khz. You should get a smoother high end doing the highs with a SEOS (without woofer and mid holes in it) and an easier crossover solution. I think you will save money compared to TD15M mids. What you don't get is point source behavior. I know that is a lot to give up and how you feel about it but if you don't need to cover a lot of sitting + standing listening positions, it might be a good tradeoff.
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post #10996 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNC View Post
Bill:
The 2nd horn is for the midrange. (maybe it isn't; I didn't look at a picture of the JBL. If not, suppose it was) Consider a SEOS below a conical mid horn with a vented rear chamber. You would get most of the same benefits for the 100-1000 hz range as you get in a Synergy with high efficiency, low excursion with multiple drivers and horn gain, and acoustic low pass filtering without the problems of trying to extend the crossover past 1 Khz. You should get a smoother high end doing the highs with a SEOS (without woofer and mid holes in it) and an easier crossover solution. I think you will save money compared to TD15M mids. What you don't get is point source behavior. I know that is a lot to give up and how you feel about it but if you don't need to cover a lot of sitting + standing listening positions, it might be a good tradeoff.
Jack
Not exactly, it depends on the speaker though. If you have a 2" horn it can be crossed over down low at like 400-600 hz, which is great. But all 2" drivers have major trouble above ~8 khz so then you need another 1" tweeter on top.

The SEOS (other than 24) are 1" exit, so they don't need another driver to play up top. The compression drivers designed for the seos can be crossed pretty low, BA750 down to 700, DNA 360 to around 1000 hz. The BA750 is really good because it's a 1" exit but 2" VC so it can be crossed lower than any other 1" exit.

Last edited by Bassment; 08-15-2014 at 06:32 AM.
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post #10997 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Not exactly, it depends on the speaker though. If you have a 2" horn it can be crossed over down low at like 400-600 hz, which is great. But all 2" drivers have major trouble above ~8 khz so then you need another 1" tweeter on top.

The SEOS (other than 24) are 1" exit, so they don't need another driver to play up top. The compression drivers designed for the seos can be crossed pretty low, BA750 down to 700, DNA 360 to around 1000 hz. The BA750 is really good because it's a 1" exit but 2" VC so it can be crossed lower than any other 1" exit.
Not exactly what?

I can see I wasn't clear enough about what kind of midhorn I had in mind. I referenced Synergy meaning a wooden conical horn with perhaps 2 8" or 10" drivers tapped into the corners less than 1/4 lambda of 1 Khz from the apex - not a JBL style multiple horn system with a 2" horn/driver topped by a super tweeter horn/driver.

I postulated that such a midhorn would be a better solution for the 100 to 1000 Hz decade than a 12" or 15" direct radiator. A primary benefit of doing this and the prime motivation, which I failed to mention, would be to extend pattern control down below 400 Hz. That the midhorn would be crossed over to a SEOS with a 1" exit at 1 Khz was implicit in my post. I agree with your driver choices and would add BMS4550 to the list.

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post #10998 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 07:41 AM
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Ah, that would be a cool design. I imagine no one has done it yet because a mid horn that goes that low is very large. A horn that holds directivity to 100 hz is over 10 feet! I don't lower than about 300 hz is really doable in normal environments, you still need a 4 foot horn for that.

The SEOS 12 - 18 range is in the sweet spot IMO for horns. Large enough to get direcitivity down to 700-1000 hz, but small enough to be a relatively "normal" speaker.
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post #10999 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Reading this thread, http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/i...hp?topic=371.0
Is this a recommend best practice?
I'm interested in this as well. I've seen it done on a few builds, but not sure if there is a consensus one way or another.

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post #11000 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
I'm interested in this as well. I've seen it done on a few builds, but not sure if there is a consensus one way or another.
What is the question ?

I did not put the putty on the back of my SEOS. Perhaps I should have... IDK? Seems like it still works great though.

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post #11001 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
What is the question ?

I did not put the putty on the back of my SEOS. Perhaps I should have... IDK? Seems like it still works great though.
Thats the one. Whether or not the putty is helpful.

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post #11002 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Ah, that would be a cool design. I imagine no one has done it yet because a mid horn that goes that low is very large. A horn that holds directivity to 100 hz is over 10 feet! I don't lower than about 300 hz is really doable in normal environments, you still need a 4 foot horn for that.

The SEOS 12 - 18 range is in the sweet spot IMO for horns. Large enough to get directivity down to 700-1000 hz, but small enough to be a relatively "normal" speaker.
I'm looking at a 24" wide 90x45 horn mated with 18" SEOS, which per Bill's spreadsheet holds horizontal pattern control down to 383 hz. Its response is flat or nearly so down to 100 Hz but pattern control is lost up around 400 Hz, except that its intended for corner loading, which will extend pattern control all the way down. Its a bit larger than normal size but pushing it into a corner should help. It would work as well with SEOS15, just lose vertical pattern control sooner.
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post #11003 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 09:10 AM
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Gentlemen.

Can someone quickly tell me the mounting depth of the assembled v8 coax? I'd like to know the absolute thinnest that I could make a box.
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post #11004 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 09:32 AM
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The Beta-8CX with DNA-150 on the back is 5.125" deep. Should just barely squeeze into a 6" deep box if flush mounted with 3/4" construction. Maybe 5.75" with 1/2", and 5.5" if you surface mounted the driver.
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post #11005 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post

The SEOS 12 - 18 range is in the sweet spot IMO for horns. Large enough to get direcitivity down to 700-1000 hz, but small enough to be a relatively "normal" speaker.
Aren't you really pushing the limits of a SEOS-12 if you're trying to cross at 700hz?
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post #11006 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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pattern control for a 1 foot diameter 90 degree horn starts to fall apart somewhere around 1-1.3khz. that doesn't really matter though as a smooth transition can still be made to a woofer of similar size.
the problem is the compression driver itself. most 1" exit c.d.'s don't have a sufficiently large diaphragm to be run much below about 900hz or so depending on loudness.

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post #11007 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Aren't you really pushing the limits of a SEOS-12 if you're trying to cross at 700hz?
Yep, the SEOS 12 is good to 1000 hz and the SEOS 18 to 700 hz. I gave the range meaning the SEOS 12 can do 1khz and the SEOS 18 can do 700 hz. And they are relatively close in size to each other.
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post #11008 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 10:21 AM
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Its too bad someone hasn't cloned the jtrs 1.4" pricey cd. If that monster was 200 bucks it would be sweet.
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post #11009 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Absolutely, the SEOS 12 is good to 1000 hz and the SEOS 18 to 700 hz

Okay, I thought you were saying you could use the SEOS 12 down to 700hz. I was thinking about using one if and when I do my build but will probably go with the XR1464 instead for the CD that I plan on using. When I was thinking about using the BMS 4550 I liked the idea of the SEOS 12 because the SEOS 18 is just too large for my setup. But now I'll go a different route.
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post #11010 of 12677 Old 08-15-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Okay, I thought you were saying you could use the SEOS 12 down to 700hz. I was thinking about using one if and when I do my build but will probably go with the XR1464 instead for the CD that I plan on using. When I was thinking about using the BMS 4550 I liked the idea of the SEOS 12 because the SEOS 18 is just too large for my setup. But now I'll go a different route.
Technically you can if you want, and have a CD that can go that low, but it doesn't hold it's directivity.
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