Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 392 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 352Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11731 of 11747 Old 12-16-2014, 03:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cw5billwade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 1,520
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Well all this talk of shortages made me pull trigger on 2 SI HT 18s I was going to do 4 volt 10s first
cw5billwade is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #11732 of 11747 Old 12-17-2014, 06:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 24,702
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 1110
Erich props to you for dealing with all this sourcing complexity.
coolrda and J_P_A like this.
Mfusick is offline  
post #11733 of 11747 Old 12-17-2014, 10:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
J_P_A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama
Posts: 4,186
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 287 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Yep. Erich is the Man, for sure!
coolrda likes this.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
J_P_A is offline  
post #11734 of 11747 Old Today, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,620
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 498 Post(s)
Liked: 753
I have some possible bad news about many of the audio projects and the future of the DIY Sound Group site. Maybe it will end up as good news, I'm not sure.

It's now been about three years since the SEOS project really started to come together with the initial prototypes that Bwaslo and I began tested. The first year handling emails and packaging things on the weekend or after work wasn't too bad. Last year was more difficult, but I was still able to get it done. However this year I found it very difficult to keep up and now realize that I simply won't be able to handle things the way they're currently going.

To be honest, I've never worked so many hours in my life. Before work, after work, most weekends working from 9:00 in the morning to midnight. Any free time at all is spent sitting at the computer answering the 75+ emails per day, testing compression drivers before shipping, or packaging kits that I never hear about again. Hundreds and hundreds of packages, very few reviews, very few photos, very little information gathered to explain designs, assembly, frequency response, etc. It finally dawned on me in the past few months that this is simply not the way all of this was suppose to go.

My lady friend has been my 'Audio Enabler' by doing all the things that used to break me away from this. I honestly don't recall the last time I even went to the store, bank, post office, etc. And I finally realized it this month at Christmas when my 8yr old niece opened up a gift from me that I didn't even recognize.....because my lady friend bought it and wrapped it up......along with all my other gifts and Christmas cards. It was a real eye opener showing me that I've lost track of what I used to do 2 and 3 years ago.

This of course has been all my fault by pushing for new projects/designs and getting them out there before documentation and instructions are really nailed down. That was a big failure on my part and I know that there's no way to correct this without shutting the site down. I can't stop to get assembly photos or type up directions at this point because none of the other stuff slows down. It's 11:30 Saturday morning and I've already received and answered 27 emails asking what speaker sounds better, will there be a flat pack for this, when will this kit be back in stock, does my crossover look correct in these photos, can I use fiberglass insulation in my speaker, etc. (There's another 8 more emails since I started this post). Emails are of course understandable, but hard to keep up with. I typed up a FAQ's page 2 weeks ago, but it hasn't helped. There's simply not enough documentation and explanation on these designs for the average DIY guy.

Because I really can't answer all the technical aspects for every design or explain what benefits the SEOS gives, or tell someone if their crossover is done correctly, I'm going to be shutting the site down in about a week or so. I wanted to ask if anyone wanted to help with any of the issues I've mentioned, or if they want to take over any kits, or parts of the site.

After most things are removed from the website I plan to take the extra time to go over each design one by one to make them easier to understand and build with better instructions, crossover layouts, etc. If I'm not able to do that on a particular design, that kit will not be back up on the site, or it will be listed as a kit for 'advanced DIY builders only'. But chances are, it will not be put back up until the documentation is good. There will be others that simply don't come back, but will still be 'supported' as much as I can.


Please keep in mind that I *REALLY* enjoy my part in all of this and will continue doing it, but some things have to be done differently so it can work smoother for everyone. If anyone has any other ideas that will help make this easier for the end user, please let me know.

Last edited by Erich H; Today at 10:52 AM.
Erich H is online now  
post #11735 of 11747 Old Today, 10:53 AM
Senior Member
 
mhutchins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 68
stunned silence...
mhutchins is offline  
post #11736 of 11747 Old Today, 11:02 AM
d_c
Advanced Member
 
d_c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: KCMO
Posts: 902
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Hey guys...we need a little rallying here...

I have two ideas:
- Set it up so you can make money
- set it up so that to sell only waveguides and drivers that you can turn a profit on, and provide plans with the list of parts. Let people order their own xo parts, drivers, ect. Let someone who has a Cnc to ship out custom boxes that people can order from if they want a flat pack.
d_c is online now  
post #11737 of 11747 Old Today, 11:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,824
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Liked: 604
I think you might want to stop providing so much support. It's supposed to be DIY. Direct users to the forum if they require support. There's a community that will help. You're not getting paid to help with this, and you need time for your own life. Worry about developing what you want to and check in on the forums when you want. Remember, life comes first, this is a hobby, not your life.

My $0.02 for whatever it's worth.
Fatshaft, rlhaudio and Bassment like this.
notnyt is online now  
post #11738 of 11747 Old Today, 11:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,620
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 498 Post(s)
Liked: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post
Let people order their own xo parts, drivers, ect. Let someone who has a Cnc to ship out custom boxes that people can order from if they want a flat pack.
Thanks, but the problem is that it would probably make it harder for the end user, not easier. I already have flat packs for most kits. Some aren't on the site because I haven't had time to get pictures and post them.
Erich H is online now  
post #11739 of 11747 Old Today, 11:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,505
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked: 263
This is one of the saddest days in DIY but I understand completely.
Erich, family first!!!

It's been said so many times... doing all of what you're doing FOR FREE is not healthy and WAY to generous!!
I'm so sorry to be blunt!

Keep in mind the 8-8-8 rule...


Good luck...wish I was closer so I can help!

My Build Thread
Equipment Speakers:
3x 1099's for LCR duty
4x Fusion 8's for surround duty
8x subs: 4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's
Fatshaft is online now  
post #11740 of 11747 Old Today, 11:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,930
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post
I have two ideas:
- Set it up so you can make money
Bingo! You may not have noticed, but this is how the rest of the world works.
BTW, I have hopes for Fusion 8s over the summer.
Michael

P.S. That sounds like a VERY special lady friend, BTW.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?

Last edited by LastButNotLeast; Today at 11:38 AM.
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #11741 of 11747 Old Today, 11:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,723
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1269 Post(s)
Liked: 1193
Doing 10% of what you do with my side business I am amazed that you lasted this long. The questions and help required for diy are really mind boggling. I see two possible directions you can go.

1) make it a profit based business and charge 20 to 30% more per kit. Hire someone to help and remove 50% of your products on your site .

2) remove 50% of your products and only answer questions from paid customers. If they can't buy from the info you have on your site (its pretty damn good right now imho) or the help currently in your thread then diy isn't for them.

I know this may sound harsh but it's the truth . If you think better explanations of products will significantly reduce the email pile....... It won't. I have made tutorial videos , diagrams, faq threads, and I still get the same questions every week. Some people are lazy. They simply don't want to do 10 minutes of research when they can have someone hold their hand. This is fine with paying customers but a significant amount of people take advantage. Others want diy but forget what it stands for ... DO IT YOURSELF.

What makes us continue.... Because most people out their are great and it feels freakin awesome to help someone reach sonic nirvana. But you must change Erich..... You have hinted at this before but you won't last. Soon the enjoyment will be completely swamped as it sounds like you are close too right now.

Your site has products that are awesome but needs a 5 man team to run. You need to streamline , simplify, and most important ENJOY YOUR OWN PRODUCT!!!!!

Once or twice a week you must kick back and listen to some music or watch a movie with these great products. Relax,smile, and have a beer.

Yes I have realized myself that I have to make some smaller changes to my life with diy. No more 35 emails to one guy about diy to then get ... Thanks for your help but I'm going to do it myself(true story). I know your issues are a bit different but at the end of the day your life comes first.

Whatever decision you make will be the right one. I want to thank you again for owning 5 speakers from you. I know we have debated a few times and sometimes we agree to disagree. But you want to have things setup that are long term good for your health. Enjoy the rest of the holidays
coolrda likes this.
chalugadp is online now  
post #11742 of 11747 Old Today, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,620
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 498 Post(s)
Liked: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post
This is one of the saddest days in DIY but I understand completely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Doing 10% of what you do with my side business I am amazed that you lasted this long. The questions and help required for diy are really mind boggling.
Don't get the wrong impressions guys. The site is not going to be permanently closed and I'm not actually going anywhere, things just need to be reworked to make them simpler for everyone. So some products will go away temporarily until better documentation can be done. Some will go away and not come back, but support will still be there. I'm just giving a heads up to why the site and some things will be going down for a while.

Last edited by Erich H; Today at 12:41 PM.
Erich H is online now  
post #11743 of 11747 Old Today, 12:39 PM
Senior Member
 
rlhaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 28
I also agree you should shut down your email and only answer questions from "paid buyers" OR only if a replacement is needed. Direct most of your questions to THIS site. As mentioned, that's why we are all here. I would say 99.9% of my questions were answered by AVS members. You already provide the plans, graphs, flatpacks, etc its up to the buyer to purchase the product. If they have questions about a certain speaker, let AVS members reply. If your NOT asking for a profit then its all voluntary. You can remain mostly silent.
You have supported ALL of us and I know we will help support you in any way we can.

DIY Fusion Tempest
DIY Ultimax 15 "Sub's
Dayton MKIV & B&W ASW 855 15" subs
rlhaudio is online now  
post #11744 of 11747 Old Today, 12:43 PM
Senior Member
 
antisuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
...to make them simpler for everyone...
With all due respect Erich, I truly think you need to make things simpler and easier for YOU, and to heck with everyone else this time.

I understand a statement like that might go against the grain of your kind and generous nature, but I honestly believe that you've already made the DIY (AIY) process so darned easy - maybe too easy - that your potential customers are less and less the measurements-and-sawdust DIY crowd and more and more the general population who buys from Amazon because it's convenient and inexpensive and they can get questions answered and free 2-day shipping with Prime. You've totally become a one man Amazon.

I hope you do take a break or a vacation, shut down the site for a while, but please don't spend the whole time working on documentation. Instead, please consider typing up something that briefly explains that people can get their questions answered on the forum, maybe think about other ways you can make it easier on you and possibly even not quite so easy for the customers, as crazy as that might sound.

Oh, and maybe not a bad idea to pay yourself something for the huge amount of work and personal money you invest in all this.
bwaslo likes this.
antisuck is online now  
post #11745 of 11747 Old Today, 12:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,824
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Liked: 604
notnyt is online now  
post #11746 of 11747 Old Today, 02:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 834
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 83
He's already done a FAQ, as mentioned above that doesn't help much. A lot of buyers who want to use DIYSG as if it were Amazon won't read it and most of the rest want personalized answers or more hand holding.

Erich, as you know I've retailed kits and software and the most stressful part was always the emails/phone calls and online questions and support requests. It takes infinite effort to keep up and every reply you make will generate two more questions. The difference between diyer support and custom engineering is seldom recognized by others. Even when the people are fun to talk/write with, there is only time for a limited number of that kind of correspondences and between those there are seemingly a million "just a quick question"s and pestering about why you didn't reply yet. It's just about impossible.

My only solution was to have someone else take on the marketing and support so I could get back to the creative tasks that I like and can handle. You won't sell as much or make as much of a splash in the audio world, but you will get more time to breathe!

Bill

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet http://libinst.com/SynergyCalc/
XSim -free crossover designer and simulator http://libinst.com/Xsim/XSimSetup.exe
bwaslo is online now  
post #11747 of 11747 Old Today, 02:19 PM
Newbie
 
op-center's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Perhaps pick a single community representative/volunteer for each speaker or speaker group to help with the emails and help point people to the community resources?
op-center is online now  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off