Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 409 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 598Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #12241 of 12261 Old Today, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 2,257
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I just see it as a threat and monopoly to DIY, with DIY group taking over here. I mean no offense when I voice this concern, but a sub forum dedicated only to the DIYsoundgroup and it's products - and a moderated or structured format isn't in keeping with the idea of DO IT YOURSELF or the free form forum spirit of AVS.
Ah that explains the confusion. It isn't that a sub-forum grouping build threads isn't helpful, but that it's distasteful to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
You can't buy a waveguide, or a CD, but every new DIY project that hits around here seems to have a coinciding "kit" available almost magically at DIY group. I can't be the only one that notices this.
How do you explain kits that are out of stock? If the agenda were to force everyone to buy a kit, then the individual drivers would be out of stock, but the kit would be in stock.

The SEOS-12 is available on Parts Express. I see there's a stub of a site for Denovo. Maybe that's going to become the place to buy individual drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I guess I probably don't understand the end game or vision. The subforum makes sense if Erich wants to turn it into a full time business, and capitalize on the sales and marketing from AVS and having your own forum, but it makes a lot less sense if he doesn't. I keep seeing him say he doesn't. But every move seems to indicate he does. I'm on board for whatever, but I think the community just needs some transparency. The community is really supportive of the effort but would they be as supportive if it's a business?
Is there room in the list of organizational models for a community, co-op, nonprofit org, or nonprofit association? All of these have paid staff, they charge people money, and they do or make stuff. There's no profit. Money gets rolled into community benefit (lower prices, commissioning new designs, more inventory on stock that's risky, etc.).

I suggested this to Erich before in an email. Then it's not one man, but rather several people from the community. It makes for more trust, transparency, and shared effort/responsibility. It's more sustainable.
Bylaws / charter documents set forth the purpose, to blah blah blah and not to enrich shareholders, but rather for the community. People in this thread have talked about "memberships" before, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
My biggest gripe if I have any is there is a new kit hitting every other day, and all this attention on stuff like a sub forum but you can't even order a waveguide or a compression driver. Shouldn't that get prioritized or fixed before anything else? This SEOS project started with a waveguide and CD right? It's expanded to the point you can't even order those anymore.
It sounds like your gripe starts the way Beast's does: You're more advanced and graduated than most users, and you want to buy individual parts during a time that's difficult to get them.

SEOS started with just the waveguide. The CD just came as a cheaper and then superior alternative to the 250, but I wouldn't consider the CD part of SEOS. And SEOS is its own thing, as evidenced by one model available on Parts Express.
Erich H likes this.
Eyleron is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12242 of 12261 Old Today, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,440
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 846 Post(s)
Liked: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Can we call a spade a spade here? How about we change this to:

"A community of speaker designers and builders devoted to bringing Erich the best DIY loudspeaker designs and technologies available, so that he may offer it to the masses and profit from other's concepts"

I am all for sharing. I have to admire you and DIYSG, you have managed to find a spot where you can dig into other's concepts and get those out to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to design such things, and, at incredible prices. and the best part, nobody even gets mad!!! The problem here is, we have moved past a few kits with OPEN SOURCE materials, and the generosity of a few great guys around here to do a couple designs. We are now in the proprietary driver, not selling the kits as separates anymore, openly entering other peoples threads and hawking their ideas territory. It makes me sick.

Turning a profit currently or not, you can't lie to me or anyone else around here and say you don't want to (or already are) make(ing) money at this venture. @Mike Lang is pretty clear: "No marketing is to be done outside of the classifieds section." IMO, a subforum would basically be like a huge throw-net for new sales for DIYSG. JBL doesn't get their own subforum, nor does JTR, Seaton, etc. They keep their product concepts and sales to their own dedicated forums, or a single thread here.

I gotta agree with Mike here, this place has turned into a "DIFM" type area and it kinda stinks. I recon everyone has to start somewhere, and even I was an early adopter of DIYSG's concept. But the second I saw the word "proprietary" getting thrown around, and was refused when requesting standalone drivers without "Buying the entire kit" which I didn't NEED, I knew the game had changed. I certainly don't think the DoItForMeSoundGroup posts even have a place anymore in the DIY section, but I also don't think they have a place on AVS in general. This is now a business, no longer a garage jockey endeavor.

Once again, in the immortal words of Young HOV, Jay-z... "I call a spade a spade, it just is what it is."

though i'm pretty neutral on the matter, there are many folks who have expressed similar sentiments.
Mfusick likes this.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #12243 of 12261 Old Today, 02:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 115
I'm all for an AVS subforum for DIYSG. Scanning down the 'DIY Speakers and Subs', there is a mix of such and making it easier to single out Erich's stuff seems like a good idea to me.

To how many new people does a thread named "Hey guys, we need a little rallying here" suggest DIYSG, SEOS or even general waveguide discussions?

As far as Erich making a profit now (hard to imagine) or building a possibly someday profitable business, I don't see the problem or any contradiction. Is it a problem when Group Buys don't send you free stuff and even charge for postage? I hope Erich does eventually come out ahead from all of this. He currently has a huge investment in stock, his building (large, this isn't from his basement or kitchen table), and his time.

No, it's not a bunch of guys occasionally chipping in with a DIY idea on a common design, but why does it have to be that? There's plenty of that here on AVS and DiyAudio, and it progresses about as slowly as you'd expect. In DIYSG, there's a guy giving a lot of time, money and effort, and focusing effort for quick progress. If any designer has issues with donating his designs or wisdom, no one is forcing anyone. I donated designs because I thought they were neat and like the idea of people listening to speakers I designed. I'm pretty sure a lot fewer would be listening if I was doing it alone and charging licensing fees!
Hindikush, Erich H, DotJun and 1 others like this.

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet http://libinst.com/SynergyCalc/
XSim -free crossover designer and simulator http://libinst.com/Xsim/XSimSetup.exe
Easy and cheap sound diffusers (the "Depot Diffusers") making-easy-diy-depot-sound-diffuser-panels-step-step.html
bwaslo is offline  
post #12244 of 12261 Old Today, 02:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 26,095
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
{Do I even say something}

I think there's fair concerns being put forward here. This whole thing has only been happening for a couple years and I think it's really grown out of control for Erich. He bought a pile of JBL stuff, cause it's what people wanted. He bought a pile of MFW15s because it's what people wanted. He got the SEOS 12 made, because it's what people wanted. He made up kits, because it's what people wanted. He got proprietary drivers made because they're black, because it's what people wanted. He made flat packs, because it's what people wanted. He doesn't sell the compression drivers, because people want the kits. Etc. You can see the growth and changes, expected or not, I don't know. But it has gotten to a point that's tough to manage. Bill Waslo was warning him over a year ago

As someone who has done a few designs to be sold through Erich, this was entirely for the DIY community. Not for a business as I hope some of my previous posts have made clear. Other designers might have a different view of that, I don't know. I wouldn't be opposed to providing designs to a business for a fee. Just, putting that out there.
I think you are right on the money with this. As for what to say... less is more. Sometimes it is anyways.

I never understood why a designer doesn't do a design and just make a thread, post the design, use off the shelf parts. What's the point of Erich anyways? I do not mean this to be insulting... honestly I do not. I am sincere in asking. If a designer wanted to give away a design to the community, what purpose does DIYgroup serve to that designer?

Let's assume design something, post a thread, and the design info. How come I can't just go to PE and buy off the shelf parts? Buy the SEOS from Erich. Make my speaker? Wasn't that the original purpose? And the designer was doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, just because they love to do it, have a passion, and like the pat on the back from the community for making awesome speakers. Right?

I've seen so many people try to buy a waveguide or compression driver and get turned down or not be able to do that because Erich is so busy in a million other directions, but I don't understand why that happens. I think that should be fixed first, before anything else. That was the original heart of this whole thing. Why the priority for a kit over a simple CD or waveguide. I know there is a A LOT of people that have experienced this. You can't keep growing if you can't even keep up with the basic core in my opinion. That's really I think some of the frustration of a lot of people.

I know Beastaudio wanted to buy some DNA150's for his coax project, but before Erich would sell him a pair there was a VOLT product kit available that included them. You could buy the kit, still Beast never got his 150's.

This is probably a delicate subject and I'm just another idiot on the interwebs. But it's interesting to me. I'd like to see DIY group go back to it roots helping the DIY community, or evolve into DIFM audio and turn into a business. It can't do both though.
Jay1 likes this.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #12245 of 12261 Old Today, 03:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 5,422
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 773 Post(s)
Liked: 804
To be clear, when I said "I think there's fair concerns being put foward here" I didn't mean they were correct or justified. I just understand them. I don't think we get to decide how Erich spends his money for our benefit. Not sure my post made sense...
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #12246 of 12261 Old Today, 03:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
I've seen so many people try to buy a waveguide or compression driver and get turned down or not be able to do that because Erich is so busy in a million other directions, but I don't understand why that happens. I think that should be fixed first, before anything else. That was the original heart of this whole thing. Why the priority for a kit over a simple CD or waveguide. I know there is a A LOT of people that have experienced this.
Here's how I see it: Erich has provided HIS cash investment, HIS time, HIS building, HIS (unbelievably difficult) efforts in dealing with overseas suppliers, HIS availability, HIS shipping skills. I somehow think this entitles him to do things as HE thinks is best, no? But apparently some who have donated little more than some forum posts feel this is unfair? REALLY?!?

I suspect that Erich has closer exposure to how things go in doing all this than any of the rest of us, and has to use this experience to decide what is the most efficient way to do the most. How in the world is that a problem?
mikela, Face2, Erich H and 1 others like this.

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet http://libinst.com/SynergyCalc/
XSim -free crossover designer and simulator http://libinst.com/Xsim/XSimSetup.exe
Easy and cheap sound diffusers (the "Depot Diffusers") making-easy-diy-depot-sound-diffuser-panels-step-step.html
bwaslo is offline  
post #12247 of 12261 Old Today, 03:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Erich, can you give me any information regarding the FL450? Is it similar to the BA750, and if not, how does it differ? With all else being equal, speaking strictly of sound quality, how would you compare the FL450 to the BA750 to the DNA360?
Tip,

The FL450 is an unusual driver. It uses about the largest neodymium magnet structure I've ever seen on anything beyond a woofer (keep your cards with magnetic stripes away from these things!). Performance-wise, its lower frequency range is about the same as the DNA360 or DNA350, around 900Hz or so. It's usable upper frequency is also about the same as those, around 18 to 20 kHz, give or take. The unusual part is that it's upper frequency range is much stronger, relatively to the others. Compression drivers like these typically drop off about 6dB/octave toward higher frequencies, starting at about 3kHz. The FL450 drops relatively little. I was sure that must be from getting more directive at VHF, but measurements didn't show that happening. So I have no idea why the FL450 acts differently on this. But it is nice for getting maximum real efficiency with constant-directivity waveguides -- usually the overall tweeter response has to be EQd down to the fallen VHF level. The FL450 also sounds different on a SEOS when swept. That might be because of the stronger high end (?) though that isn't what it seems to sound like.

The BA750 is usable lower in frequency, down to about 600Hz, depending on the waveguide. For higher crossover frequencies, there probably isn't much reason to go with BA750. VHF response is about the same as DNA360. Using BA750 usually requires special construction because it is so blasted heavy -- it looks positively silly on a SEOS10. It will probably break the neck off of a lot of horns, so some additional support from cabinet structures would be a good idea!
Erich H likes this.

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet http://libinst.com/SynergyCalc/
XSim -free crossover designer and simulator http://libinst.com/Xsim/XSimSetup.exe
Easy and cheap sound diffusers (the "Depot Diffusers") making-easy-diy-depot-sound-diffuser-panels-step-step.html
bwaslo is offline  
post #12248 of 12261 Old Today, 03:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,833
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 657 Post(s)
Liked: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Can we call a spade a spade here? How about we change this to:

"A community of speaker designers and builders devoted to bringing Erich the best DIY loudspeaker designs and technologies available, so that he may offer it to the masses and profit from other's concepts"

I am all for sharing. I have to admire you and DIYSG, you have managed to find a spot where you can dig into other's concepts and get those out to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to design such things, and, at incredible prices. and the best part, nobody even gets mad!!! The problem here is, we have moved past a few kits with OPEN SOURCE materials, and the generosity of a few great guys around here to do a couple designs. We are now in the proprietary driver, not selling the kits as separates anymore, openly entering other peoples threads and hawking their ideas territory. It makes me sick.

Turning a profit currently or not, you can't lie to me or anyone else around here and say you don't want to (or already are) make(ing) money at this venture. @Mike Lang is pretty clear: "No marketing is to be done outside of the classifieds section." IMO, a subforum would basically be like a huge throw-net for new sales for DIYSG. JBL doesn't get their own subforum, nor does JTR, Seaton, etc. They keep their product concepts and sales to their own dedicated forums, or a single thread here.

You are way off on almost every part of what you just said, which is a real bummer.

The subforum is going to be in the VENDOR AREA and I have to pay for it! JBL, JTR, Seaton can have one too.....and they would have to pay for it. I chose that route specifically so it would NOT clog up this forum. No one has ever started an "Official DIYSG" thread in the speaker area like the other companies you mentioned. The subforum isn't even easy to find....and I'm PAYING for the subforum. It was discussed a few pages back. Oh, and the subforum will cost more than my car payment each month.


Profiting from other people's concepts? Where did you get that from? Ask the speaker designers who starts many of the designs and gets things rolling. Who did I copy off of?


The kits have never.....ever been sold as separates. Nothing has changed with that. Years ago when some stand alone flat packs were started there was a donation button set up so people could build the design and then donate to the designer through Paypal. About 4 out of 100 did it. So I started adding in a very small amount to the kits for the designers. Some wanted it, some didn't. How is this bad?


Proprietary Drivers: People wanted a speaker with dual 8" woofers and an 8 ohm load. I asked Eminence if they could make some 16 ohm Beta-8's for us to use and then drew out the 88-Special, Fusion-8 MTM, tower and center and then asked Jeff Bagby if he would do the design. How is that bad? Forum members were trying to paint their 10" blue cones black and kept asking about black cones. So I again asked Eminence if they could make us some black coned models and they did! How is this a bad thing?


Making money: Kit pages have links to the 'About Us' section of the site that clearly explains how I price kits and what happens if there is any money left over after they are priced out. I have never ever paid myself any money from this. Not one penny. Any money that has ever been left over went right back into the "group Buy Fund" as I call it. Matter of fact I sold two nice trucks to fund the SEOS waveguides. Last Monday my dad even joked and said 'I bet you wish you had the extra plow truck now' (we had lots of snow). I still haven't been able to get that personal truck money out of the audio stuff to rebuy myself another truck!


Bummer of a post.

Last edited by Erich H; Today at 04:07 PM.
Erich H is online now  
post #12249 of 12261 Old Today, 04:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,833
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 657 Post(s)
Liked: 885
And once again.....

I'M PAYING FOR THE SUBFORUM

And it will not even be in the audio area or anywhere near the DIY Speaker forum!!!



This was discussed pages back.

Last edited by Erich H; Today at 08:38 PM.
Erich H is online now  
post #12250 of 12261 Old Today, 05:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,833
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 657 Post(s)
Liked: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

How many other manufacturers or resellers would love to have their own forum on AVS?

It seems like DIYgroup keeps taking step after step towards becoming larger, bigger company but at the same time talking out of the other side of it's mouth saying it isn't so. Every step to use "special" driver with custom specs, different color woofer, CD that only DIY group carries, or whatever else is the differentiating factor just continues to reinforce the idea you have to source everything from Erich. But try to order a DNA360, or DNA150, A SEOS 15" waveguide individually and you get told to piss up a rope. Every time I look I see someone complaining about that. You can't buy a waveguide, or a CD, but every new DIY project that hits around here seems to have a coinciding "kit" available almost magically at DIY group. I can't be the only one that notices this.
You are sooooo off base here.

Look under 'FORUMS'.....all the way down at the bottom. See that thing called "Vendor Forum"? That's a PAID section. How many times do I need to tell you this isn't free?? You keep stirring things up but not reading. You have 27,000 posts but fail to read a few pages prior to posting....so YOU have started all of this by making false comments.



And you have got to be kidding me on ordering parts!!! Comments like that just kill me. Especially from you.....because a couple months ago I sent you the SEOS-15's and compression driver you're using for your speakers!!! When did I ever tell you to "piss up a rope"? Seriously, didn't I send you the parts you just said couldn't be ordered right? Read on to understand how sad your comment is.


Why is the SEOS-15 not available right now? I set up a preorder for that and the SEOS-10 to help cover the 10's of thousands of dollars needed to get the project done. I think maybe $2000 worth were preordered.....none from you if I recall. So to get the project done I had to sell my own personal truck to cover mold fees. After that I was not initially able to buy a huge number of them due to the cost. SO I DON'T HAVE MANY TO SELL RIGHT NOW!!! Should I sell all of the ones I do have to you and then sit here with the Fusion-15 and 88-Special kits/flat packs that could no longer be sold?

I had enough to last me about a year. It's been a year since the SEOS-15 was delivered here. I ordered more that are coming on the next shipping container that should be here in about 1.5 months. I can't get it here quicker. WHAT ELSE AM I SUPPOSE TO DO??? Please let me know.

Why is the DNA-360 not available right now? There's a minimum number I have to order on those (it's not just 100). I'm low on them because they came on the same shipping container as the SEOS-15 and SEOS-10. Know why I don't have many right now? I couldn't order as many because I spent money on the waveguides and molds!!!! Do I sell all the compression drivers so that I can no longer sell half the kits and have a bunch of flat packs sitting around? WHAT ELSE SHOULD I DO? Please let me know.

Why is the DNA-150 not available right now? Same reason the 360 isn't. How can I sell something to you that I either don't have, or don't have much of? If I'm low on stock, why would I sell a driver to someone and then have all of the kits go out of stock and leave me sitting on everything that now can't be sold?



I ran low on a lot of stuff this year because a LOT of money went to cover the SEOS-15 and SEOS-10. Then their kits drained the stock of DNA-205's and DNA-360's. The Volt kits drained the stock on the DNA-105. What would you like me to do? Can you loan me $100k so I can buy more of the parts all at once?


This should make you happy: To keep from running out of parts I have put even more of my money into a shipping container that is suppose to ship in a couple weeks. Just like I've done for 2 years now. It has more SEOS waveguides, and compression driver parts.



Mfusick, Do you have any idea at all how much has to be ordered at one time and how much it costs? Any idea at all? Give me a guess at what you think it would cost to order a run of SEOS-10's and 15's, DNA-360's, 205's, 150's, and Anarchy woofers. Last year the drivers got ordered at the same time. What's your guess?

After that, add in flat packs, crossover parts, and woofers. Let me know what you come up with and if you'd like to help out on that purchase. Oh wait, you just wanted 3 SEOS-15's and 3 DNA-360's.


Oh, and I also helped with the Group Buy from Poland and had another $3500 worth of horns ordered without some people actually paying me for them. So at this point I have about $12,000 worth of preordered horns that people decided to stiff me on.....for doing a nice deed. That's never happening again because I've finally learned my lesson, and believe it or not, your past post is what certainly nailed it home.
LastButNotLeast and wvu80 like this.

Last edited by Erich H; Today at 08:49 PM.
Erich H is online now  
post #12251 of 12261 Old Today, 05:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Fatshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,553
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked: 306
Wow...where has this gone????

so sad...

Erich, I really feel for you...

My Build Thread
Equipment Speakers:
3x 1099's for LCR duty
4x Fusion 8's for surround duty
8x subs: 4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's
Fatshaft is online now  
post #12252 of 12261 Old Today, 05:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,833
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 657 Post(s)
Liked: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

What's the point of Erich anyways?

Buy the SEOS from Erich. Make my speaker? Wasn't that the original purpose?

I've seen so many people try to buy a waveguide or compression driver and get turned down or not be able to do that because Erich is so busy in a million other directions, but I don't understand why that happens.


I know Beastaudio wanted to buy some DNA150's for his coax project, but before Erich would sell him a pair there was a VOLT product kit available that included them. You could buy the kit, still Beast never got his 150's.
Do you reread the insults before hitting submit? It's sad that you ask what I'm good for when I recall all the emails you've sent me with questions. Did I not reply to all of them trying to help? I don't have a smart phone like you, I'm sitting at my desk replying to those emails trying to help and you say there's no point to me at all.

The original purpose of this thread has been well done for quite some time. You can buy ALL the SEOS sizes you want and make your own speakers. There was more help with the SEOS-12 so I was able to get enough of those the first time around, which is why I also take them to PE for people to order because they ship world wide. I couldn't buy a huge number of SEOS-10 or SEOS-15 because there wasn't as much help, so you have to wait until I can get more. But you can always buy the fiberglass ones from Poland, they're just a lot more expensive. How much do you think the SEOS project cost. If you're guessing under 6 figures.....you're wrong.


I couldn't sell the DNA-150 to Beastaudio because I didn't have very many left and the small number I did have were packaged with the Volt-6, 8, and 10. I don't want to cut open my box of parts for the kit, sell a $20 item, and have $130 kit sitting that can no longer be sold. I explained that to him. There are Fusion-6's in stock with the DNA-150....but why aren't the Volt-6's in stock? Because I have 10 Fusion-6 kits completely wrapped up with their woofers and parts and don't want to open the package to remove the compression driver and kill the kit. Why is that bad?

Last edited by Erich H; Today at 08:56 PM.
Erich H is online now  
post #12253 of 12261 Old Today, 05:56 PM
Senior Member
 
rhodesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Erich, I'd just like to say that I appreciate everything you do, as it benefits the community so greatly. I hope you get enough enjoyment from the community to counter the frustration generated by the trolls and jerks that fill the internet. Thank you.

As for some of the negative comments: There are plenty of people posting open source speaker designs on this forum and others. There are plenty of web sites that support DIY audio and other hobbies. There are plenty of companies that sell woofers, waveguides, and compression drivers. If you don't like DIYSG, Erich, or the way in which he does business, you have plenty of other options for pursuing your hobby.
mikela likes this.
rhodesj is offline  
post #12254 of 12261 Old Today, 06:26 PM
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,464
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 40
What the heck?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
post #12255 of 12261 Old Today, 06:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wormraper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tucson Arizona
Posts: 4,542
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesj View Post
Erich, I'd just like to say that I appreciate everything you do, as it benefits the community so greatly. I hope you get enough enjoyment from the community to counter the frustration generated by the trolls and jerks that fill the internet. Thank you.

As for some of the negative comments: There are plenty of people posting open source speaker designs on this forum and others. There are plenty of web sites that support DIY audio and other hobbies. There are plenty of companies that sell woofers, waveguides, and compression drivers. If you don't like DIYSG, Erich, or the way in which he does business, you have plenty of other options for pursuing your hobby.
I want to second this opinion. I understand tha Erich isn't some big business and that this guy has helped us out ENORMOUSLY.... I for one really appeciate his help in the community.
Philip Frederick, cr671 and wvu80 like this.
wormraper is online now  
post #12256 of 12261 Old Today, 07:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
wvu80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I think you are right on the money with this. As for what to say... less is more. Sometimes it is anyways.
(respectful snip)

This is probably a delicate subject and I'm just another idiot on the interwebs. But it's interesting to me. I'd like to see DIY group go back to it roots helping the DIY community, or evolve into DIFM audio and turn into a business. It can't do both though.
Mr. Mfusick, I don't know you, we are both strangers to each other on the internet. I have read a lot of your stuff. I like you, I usually respect your opinions on things audio, but on this recent vitriol you spew on every recent post against Erich, we do not agree.

I respect your right to disagree with me, I respect your right to speak your mind. What would keep me as a fan of yours is if you drop the condescending, disrespectful "do it for me" catch phrase you seem to be fond of, and work into every recent post.

That crosses the line between friends who disagree with one another to someone who just wants to hurl personal insults at a respected fellow forum member.

I have never thought of you that way before, and I am asking you to consider if you want to keep the fine reputation you have built up over thousands of posts and many years of helping others by sharing your knowledge. It's your choice and your reputation.

Please accept my observation as a sincere request to see conversation return to its former civil self.

-Dave
niktak11 likes this.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
wvu80 is online now  
post #12257 of 12261 Old Today, 07:56 PM
Member
 
cr671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Keep up the good work Erich!

S5 tap'n
cr671 is online now  
post #12258 of 12261 Old Today, 08:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,833
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 657 Post(s)
Liked: 885
I think the problem is some guys didn't read back a few pages to see that the subforum I was talking about is actually going to cost money, it's certainly not a free place to talk about DIY Sound Group speakers.

They also missed where I clearly explained a way to keep prices where they are for the DIY guys, but end up with extra money to get more part-time packaging help. This requires purchasing a large number of drivers to get a volume discount to make that happen though. I also said this transition HAD to happen or I would not be able to continue with this any longer.

If I have to buy large numbers of drivers, why not get them made how we want them to be? People want black cones and I have to buy a lot anyway? Why shouldn't I ask for a custom black model? People want 16ohm models to make dual woofer speakers? Done. It's not rocket science or a secret. Don't want the "proprietary" black coned woofers on your 1099 or Volt-10??? Then select the option that gives you the regular blue coned Delta 10A or blue coned Volt-10. There's no big conspiracy around black coned woofers.

Last edited by Erich H; Today at 08:21 PM.
Erich H is online now  
post #12259 of 12261 Old Today, 08:48 PM
Member
 
ORIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 31
My impression of this community has not changed one bit since posting this after discovering this forum this past July:





Quote:
Originally Posted by ORIF View Post
Hello everyone,

In regards to the original title to this thread:

I am a newbie to this forum and this hobby as well. I stumbled across this site and started reading here about building speakers and became very intrigued with the idea of making something with my own hands that could enhance my love of listening to music and watching movies. I bit the bullet and my kids and I have started building "The Sub That Cannot Be Named".



Even though I am nowhere near done, I am already researching and planning more builds. My "Favorites" list of threads on my browser has extended past 1 screen within a month. My poor wife has no idea what is in store for her.

What gives me the confidence to pursue this is the incredible support that I have seen on this site. There is no place like it that I have witnessed on the internet. People freely giving literally hours of their time, their ideas, their well considered advice to others with no strings attached, no ulterior motive. The fact that there even is a site like DIYSOUND simply amazes me.

You all have something special here.

IMHO, This Site "Wins The Internet."
ORIF is online now  
post #12260 of 12261 Old Today, 09:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DotJun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,137
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 246 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Just to answer the "what is Erich needed for" question, well, he's a great help for those of us that don't want to do things from scratch or don't have the time or tools. Seriously though, why would anyone have a problem with someone providing these services? Just sound elitist to me: I can build it from scratch and you can't so you shouldn't be on this forum.

If one does not agree with the services provided to those of us that don't have the time or tools or what not, then one should go piece everything out oneself at 20 other random stores while getting charged that many more shipping charges so one can feel better about themselves.

Sorry for the gripe, but it just seems like someone that has devoted so much time doing what people are asking for from the start is being ripped on, and for what?
DotJun is online now  
post #12261 of 12261 Old Today, 09:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Valley, AZ
Posts: 4,359
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 170
I dont have a problem with Erich or his business model. I think a separate AVS forum is a good idea. It seems like the only products available for the Do It Yourselfer are the products available to buy at Parts Express (SEOS12 and flatpack boxes), and maybe the Anarchy? DIYSG is basically a kit seller, which is fine. I just wish the products that arent actually available to buy were taken down from the page, or at least modified so that they dont give the impression that they can be purchased. That might remove some of the animosity of DIYers feeling like they arent special enough to buy products for DIY projects
Jay1 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off