Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 96 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 808Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2851 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 03:50 AM
Member
 
jzagaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sonido Hungary works on elliptical fullranges. Would you be interested in SEOS coax? Website:

http://www.sonido.hu/eng/products.htm
LL
LL
jzagaja is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2852 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 07:20 AM
Newbie
 
SMathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post

Sonido Hungary works on elliptical fullranges. Would you be interested in SEOS coax? Website:

http://www.sonido.hu/eng/products.htm

First post. Came to know of this discussion thanks to Erich. Apologize in advance if this is off topic. Will move to another if needed.

Jzagaja, this is interesting.
What size coax are you thinking about?
What is the relation of elliptical full ranger to the SEOS profile?
Is it possible build a SEOS profile for a full-range driver? This is of interest to me.

Just to give an idea of where I am coming from, I have an 8inch full-range driver in a back loaded horn and am looking at options to cross over to a waveguide. Another idea was to add a waveguide to the fullrange, like the azura horn. I have a lot of work/experimenting/reading ahead of me, and I am toying with a number of ideas.

SMathews
SMathews is offline  
post #2853 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 07:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,941
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked: 313
Erich, that price on the elliptical horn + tweeter is unreal, at least for small quantity purchases. What's the width and pattern of the thing? Looks like just the ticket for an update of the tower design with an armload of Aura NS6's per side...Stentorian or something like that?

Also, any plans for "double baffle" variants of the sub flat packs, for dual-opposed or PR subs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post

Sonido Hungary works on elliptical fullranges. Would you be interested in SEOS coax? Website:

In principle yes, but it depends. The most important factor would be the transition between mid and tweeter.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
DS-21 is offline  
post #2854 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 07:48 AM
Member
 
jzagaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
An idea is to have a diffraction limited point source in a new form. Sonido fullranges are very good and allow 1st order filters. An example:

http://audioroundtable.com/forum/ind...ed=1&&start=10

At the moment there's no connection between SEOS and Sonido - hope it could be modified to mount compression driver on the back or even better make a new design. Size 8 (available), 12, 15 inches.
jzagaja is offline  
post #2855 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 08:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post

Sonido Hungary works on elliptical fullranges. Would you be interested in SEOS coax? Website:

http://www.sonido.hu/eng/products.htm

An EOS coax would be interesting but IMO it wouldn't be easy to get right.

If I were to spec a coax it would be an 12" conical profile cone that roundovers slightly into a flat foam surround (ala the Audax PR170). It would be something like 70x50 targeted directivity. I would use a .75" exit CD with a phase plug designed for a minimally difractive transition into the conical section. Basically the curved OS portion would reside in the phase plug and then transition to where the OS curve is basically conical. I believe Tannoy does something like this.

This wouldn't be "full range" due to the foam surround that would limit excursion to no more than 1-2mm. IMO a full range coax is a uselessly compromised design except where it is required for packaging like in surrounds. If you run a coax down below 100hz it will require relatively large excursion and you don't want your waveguide moving that much.

Instead you would probably cross to a 12-15" woofer around 400-600hz and the coax to CD would cross around 1500hz. This would give nice smooth controlled directivity from about 1000-18khz with no lobing. You could also do it MTM style like Seaton and JTR with a cross probably around 300hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMathews View Post

First post. Came to know of this discussion thanks to Erich. Apologize in advance if this is off topic. Will move to another if needed.

Jzagaja, this is interesting.
What size coax are you thinking about?
What is the relation of elliptical full ranger to the SEOS profile?
Is it possible build a SEOS profile for a full-range driver? This is of interest to me.

Just to give an idea of where I am coming from, I have an 8inch full-range driver in a back loaded horn and am looking at options to cross over to a waveguide. Another idea was to add a waveguide to the fullrange, like the azura horn. I have a lot of work/experimenting/reading ahead of me, and I am toying with a number of ideas.

SMathews

Generally speaking there isn't much benefit to the OS profile when using a cone driver. IMO you should simply use a conical profile or something like a IWATA or JMLC. Well really IMO you are wasting your time with fullrange drivers but that is a whole different discussion. You aren't going to get the directivity you are likely hoping for with a 8" fullrange driver. The only benefit is some low end loading potential IMO.
coctostan is offline  
post #2856 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 08:52 AM
Member
 
jzagaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Common motor drive would be great. SWR300 data enclosed.
LL
LL
jzagaja is offline  
post #2857 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 09:12 AM
Newbie
 
SMathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Generally speaking there isn't much benefit to the OS profile when using a cone driver. IMO you should simply use a conical profile or something like a IWATA or JMLC. Well really IMO you are wasting your time with fullrange drivers but that is a whole different discussion. You aren't going to get the directivity you are likely hoping for with a 8" fullrange driver. The only benefit is some low end loading potential IMO.

Thanks. Fullrange drivers .... yah I know, I own them. There are characteristics about them that I like, and others I don't.

SMathews
SMathews is offline  
post #2858 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 02:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 6,028
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 980
If the larger SEOS-22/24 get's built, what size compression driver are you guys hoping for?


I'm going to be ordering some extra parts to experiment with and might as well attempt a good 1.4" or 2" as well. I realize it won't be easy, but I'm up for the challenge.

Which size makes the most sense, and what kind of top end are you hoping for? Will they be used with a "super tweeter", or maybe a smaller SEOS, or should we be shooting for around 600hz - 16,000hz with just a 1.4"?

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is online now  
post #2859 of 12566 Old 02-26-2012, 10:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,878
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 391 Post(s)
Liked: 265
2"

Got coax BMS's so no top end issues.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #2860 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 09:16 AM
Newbie
 
Breau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Erich

2 Inch for 600hz-10khz... supertweeter or smaller SEOS 10k-20k
Breau is offline  
post #2861 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 09:20 AM
Member
 
jzagaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Or JMLC-1000 with LCY ribbon (ca. 98dB).
LL
LL
jzagaja is offline  
post #2862 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 11:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Raul GS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 24
What is the waveguide to the right? Do you have any sonograms for it? What size ribbon does it fit?

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence, than it does knowledge. Charles Darwin
Raul GS is online now  
post #2863 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 11:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,968
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 531 Post(s)
Liked: 213
Erich, I think you might have missed this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Say Erich, how deep (thick) are the DE250 replacement CD's?

I just realized they may not fit in the very shallow enclosures I have planned.


Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #2864 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Advanced Member
 
Carl_Huff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 659
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

If the larger SEOS-22/24 get's built, what size compression driver are you guys hoping for? ...

... Which size makes the most sense, and what kind of top end are you hoping for? Will they be used with a "super tweeter", or maybe a smaller SEOS, or should we be shooting for around 600hz - 16,000hz with just a 1.4"?

Erich,

I think a 1.4 CD is the next logical step. If you can get a real 600Hz to 16kHz out of it I'd say that you have a winner! I invite others to comment.
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
Carl_Huff is online now  
post #2865 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 11:52 AM
Member
 
josephjcole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I would be pretty excited about a two inch CD. Seems as though the 1" CD's are great for two way speakers with either a 12 or 15" woofer. Seems as though a 2" CD could be perfect for pairing up with some kind of mid-bass horn. Just my 2cents.
josephjcole is offline  
post #2866 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 12:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Erich,

I think a 1.4 CD is the next logical step. If you can get a real 600Hz to 16kHz out of it I'd say that you have a winner! I invite others to comment.
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

I know I would only bite on a 1.4" or 1.5" throat. 2" makes no sense for a horn that will be used to cover the upper registers. The BMS coax should be used in the 1.4" size anyway. You will get no directivity control for the upper frequencies that that HF portion provides. Why use the 2" version unless you are simply stuck with a 2" horn? I believe it is the same driver otherwise.

2" throats are best suited for applications where you cross to something better suited to the highest frequencies. I wouldn't use the SEOS for this either. I'd go with the Iwata and cross to something like the JMLC, a ribbon horn, or some smaller SEOS. 2" throat drivers are really midranges.
coctostan is offline  
post #2867 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 01:01 PM
Member
 
jzagaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

What is the waveguide to the right? Do you have any sonograms for it? What size ribbon does it fit?

This is SEOS for Fountek Neo 2.0 CD.
LL
LL
jzagaja is offline  
post #2868 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 01:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 6,028
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 980
I'll get parts for both sizes and see how it works out. 1.4" or 1.5" does make the sense as the next logical step. I'm thinking that titanium would have to be used for the diaphragm of that size and still handle the high frequencies, but they've got so many new treated titanium models that I'm sure something will work out that won't cause your ear drums to bleed. But I'm going to look at other material as well.

The BA model is still under $200, but I don't think a good 1.4" would stay under that amount. Then again, those normally run well into the hundreds anyway. I guess the 1" models that perform like the BA also run well into the hundreds too.....but not anymore. If I go missing, you'll know I cracked the code for good performing cheaper compression drivers and one of the big companies took me out!


I'm going to start the preordering on the plastic waveguides in the next day or so. That will determine how much I can work on the CD's. I took the plastic models out to Bill for inspection......he thought they were really nice. I asked the plastics company how much to get a matte finish and still use the same hard plastic and it won't add enough to worry about, but they will get me exact figures soon. I've got other plastic samples from them as well for comparisons.

The reason I don't mind taking preorders on these is because now that I've seen the product, I'm confident that everything will go okay at this point. And it should be quick too.

I don't know the exact end price on the other compression driver clones because of shipping rates from multiple companies. If I knew that, I would consider taking preorders on those as well. But the first round will be about 200 parts. What stinks is that those might be sold in about a week or so.

I was talking to Bill about that. He thinks it might make sense to order parts for the nicer model, and then also order parts for the one that's just a bit under it in performance. Price difference is about $20 due to the different diaphragm. The good one seems to test better than the current DE250. The other one is close to the same as the DE250. The cheaper one might come in around $55 if it all works out. But as mentioned, I can't be 100% just yet.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is online now  
post #2869 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 02:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Erich-

I would skip the custom 1.4" driver. You can get a Radian 636PB for $200 (http://www.usspeaker.com/radian%20636pb-1.htm) and I doubt you will match its mylar surround with aluminum dome performance. It is very similar to the 18Sound diaphragms PNW uses in his Octagon and Raptor. I would definitely want to make sure the titanium you use has an effective coating because non-titanium is simply inferior in a home setting. The main advantage of titanium is durability in high power situations which a home is not.

The larger SEOS is already going to be an expensive horn. I'd rather have a higher quality 1" exit driver that only holds pattern down to ~1000hz than a similarly priced, but lower quality 1.4" driver that holds pattern down to ~600hz. For the budget minded, you will get more value and a better speaker out of the 1" options for the same or less money. Make sense?
coctostan is offline  
post #2870 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 04:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,878
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 391 Post(s)
Liked: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

The BMS coax should be used in the 1.4" size anyway. You will get no directivity control for the upper frequencies that that HF portion provides. Why use the 2" version unless you are simply stuck with a 2" horn? I believe it is the same driver

The internals are designed for a 2" exit and in the 1.4 necks down sharply internally to make the smaller throat.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #2871 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 05:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
btinindy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'll get parts for both sizes and see how it works out. 1.4" or 1.5" does make the sense as the next logical step. I'm thinking that titanium would have to be used for the diaphragm of that size and still handle the high frequencies, but they've got so many new treated titanium models that I'm sure something will work out that won't cause your ear drums to bleed. But I'm going to look at other material as well.

The BA model is still under $200, but I don't think a good 1.4" would stay under that amount. Then again, those normally run well into the hundreds anyway. I guess the 1" models that perform like the BA also run well into the hundreds too.....but not anymore. If I go missing, you'll know I cracked the code for good performing cheaper compression drivers and one of the big companies took me out!

I'm going to start the preordering on the plastic waveguides in the next day or so. That will determine how much I can work on the CD's. I took the plastic models out to Bill for inspection......he thought they were really nice. I asked the plastics company how much to get a matte finish and still use the same hard plastic and it won't add enough to worry about, but they will get me exact figures soon. I've got other plastic samples from them as well for comparisons.

The reason I don't mind taking preorders on these is because now that I've seen the product, I'm confident that everything will go okay at this point. And it should be quick too.

I don't know the exact end price on the other compression driver clones because of shipping rates from multiple companies. If I knew that, I would consider taking preorders on those as well. But the first round will be about 200 parts. What stinks is that those might be sold in about a week or so.

I was talking to Bill about that. He thinks it might make sense to order parts for the nicer model, and then also order parts for the one that's just a bit under it in performance. Price difference is about $20 due to the different diaphragm. The good one seems to test better than the current DE250. The other one is close to the same as the DE250. The cheaper one might come in around $55 if it all works out. But as mentioned, I can't be 100% just yet.

How do we "pre-order"? I am in for three of the plastics seos 12's. I am ready to build something with these 50 degree days in Indiana! Also very interested in the CD's.
btinindy is offline  
post #2872 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 05:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
AudioJosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 617
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 93
I am not certain I am interesting in yet another big waveguide, so I kept out of it, but I have to say, for the SEOS shape, the 1.4"/1.5" makes far more sense. These CD type devices have minimal loading, which means they are generally more practical for higher registers. If you are going to use a 2" driver you really want to get the loading and take it down to cover most of the midrange and use a better driver suited to the top end. The 1.4" is the best compromise. but doesn't have the highest highs...use the DE35 or something similar for that top end.

FWIW, its the 2" versions of 18Sound driver than adds a deep throat in front of the driver to take it out to 2", whereas the 1.4" version is shallow.

JoshK on most other audio forums
Quantity only when quality is ensured.
AudioJosh is online now  
post #2873 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 05:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 6,028
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 980
Coctostan, there's no reason to assume the 1.4" CD would be lower quality. It may not necessarily be titanium, I was just giving some thoughts about it.

To me, this whole thread is based on the DIY guys making something better than the big companies. With others helping, the SEOS proved it can be done. And with others helping, the 1" clone also proved it can be done. And the 1" BA driver has surprised people as well, even though more work will be done with that one to hopefully make it even better.

The guy that did most of the work on the CD that bested the DE250 will be recommending a selling price, I'm mostly just doing the grunt work on that exact model and ordering the parts to get it done. For now I know it will be much lower than the DE250, but from current testing, it's actually a higher quality driver. I'm guessing that 8 months ago many people would have said there was no way to match the DE250.....let alone improve it.


As mentioned, I'm not sure I'll even work on the 1.4". But if I did, I wouldn't be shooting for lower quality with something like that. It wouldn't make any sense.

The DE "clone" might have 2 models simply to give people price options. But there's only going to be one BA model, and if I did anything with the 1.4", I'd be shooting for just one good model there as well.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is online now  
post #2874 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 06:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Eternal Velocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 61
I know it's rather late to be bringing it up, but have you ever considered implementing the geddes patent phase plug design?

Quote:
For now I know it will be much lower than the DE250, but from current testing, it's actually a higher quality driver. I'm guessing that 8 months ago many people would have said there was no way to match the DE250.....let alone improve it.

What do the CSDs look like between the drivers? I think the only thing people are concerned about is titanium "ringing"
Eternal Velocity is offline  
post #2875 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 06:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

The internals are designed for a 2" exit and in the 1.4 necks down sharply internally to make the smaller throat.

I was under the impression that they were the same except for a longer throat expanding to 2" vs the shallower 1.4 and 1.5" versions. I haven't had a 2" in hand so I can't say for sure.

Nonetheless, I wouldn't use the 2" BMS coax in a SEOS setup since it won't give the HF portion of the coax any pattern control due to the large throat. The other kicker is the $700 price. The only other 2" driver I would use would be the TAD and it is even more expensive. I just don't see the value in a 2" SEOS. The IWATA is likely the best option for 2".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Coctostan, there's no reason to assume the 1.4" CD would be lower quality. It may not necessarily be titanium, I was just giving some thoughts about it.

To me, this whole thread is based on the DIY guys making something better than the big companies. With others helping, the SEOS proved it can be done. And with others helping, the 1" clone also proved it can be done. And the 1" BA driver has surprised people as well, even though more work will be done with that one to hopefully make it even better.

The guy that did most of the work on the CD that bested the DE250 will be recommending a selling price, I'm mostly just doing the grunt work on that exact model and ordering the parts to get it done. For now I know it will be much lower than the DE250, but from current testing, it's actually a higher quality driver. I'm guessing that 8 months ago many people would have said there was no way to match the DE250.....let alone improve it.


As mentioned, I'm not sure I'll even work on the 1.4". But if I did, I wouldn't be shooting for lower quality with something like that. It wouldn't make any sense.

The DE "clone" might have 2 models simply to give people price options. But there's only going to be one BA model, and if I did anything with the 1.4", I'd be shooting for just one good model there as well.

I'm not saying you would shoot for lower quality. I'm saying that it is a completely different ballgame when you go up the 3" and 4" diaphragms. The technology in the Radian and 18Sounds isn't nearly as simple or cheap as the mylar phragms in the DE250. The Radian is a very high performer and at $200 is pretty damn cheap for a 3" aluminum diaphragm. It is also a unique mylar surround attached to the aluminum which I believe is licensed technology (18Sound licenses it too).

It also likely wouldn't be worth the effort due to smaller quantities. The BA and DE250 clones will likely sell in much higher quantities and make more sense.
coctostan is offline  
post #2876 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 06:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 6,028
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

I am not certain I am interesting in yet another big waveguide, so I kept out of it, but I have to say, for the SEOS shape, the 1.4"/1.5" makes far more sense.

I agree about the bigger waveguide right now. We should stay focused on the smaller 6" - 18" models because that's what 99.8% of the people want and that's what we have, and that's what we know works really well. When we discussed which size to make the plastic model, everyone thought the 18" was too big for most, and the 15" was still a bit too much. The 12" was by far the most desired, and it smokes all other brands.

So the number of people that would get a 24" wide model would be extremely slim. Plus there's a chance that the BA driver will go low enough on the SEOS-18 for some 18" woofers. One idea behind the SEOS was the ability to cross lower for it's size. So the SEOS-18 competes with larger horns already.


*** Gentlemen ***

I say let's get some darn speakers built with what we have, what we all decided on, and what we have coming very soon. We're here, we've proved it can be done, and we now have the parts to do it. Let's tay on target so this project can be a proven winner. If we don't, we have absolutely nothing.

There are a few people here that I talked to behind the scenes all the time right in the middle of this project. If you recall, I always said there were things going on in the background. The reason I didn't do it out in the open was because of what my Grandmother always taught me to not let happen.....'Too many Chiefs, not enough indians'. She actually said "Too many Chiefs not enough Injuns", which I like much more. When there are too many ideas being debated, and no one grabbing one and pulling it through, it's a completely doomed project.


So let's slam dunk the first part and get it done, then worry about the other .2% later.


I can't do crossover work yet. I'm simply not good enough and have zero problems admitting that. But as stated on the very first page of this thread......I'll get the waveguides prototyped and made. Now let's have some crossover gurus get some darn speakers wrapped around these things so they can be enjoyed.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is online now  
post #2877 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 07:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 6,028
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

I know it's rather late to be bringing it up, but have you ever considered implementing the geddes patent phase plug design?



What do the CSDs look like between the drivers? I think the only thing people are concerned about is titanium "ringing"



There's no titanium diaphragm in the 1" DE model. I mentioned treated or coated titanium might be needed for the larger 1.4" or 2" models, but not the 1" clone.

The foam idea was discussed earlier in the thread. It hasn't been forgotten, that's probably all that can be said right now.

The foam is for "HOMs". The SEOS shape itself is beneficial against that. For those that use the foam to 'knock down the highs', crossovers can handle that. But regardless, it hasn't been forgotten.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is online now  
post #2878 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 18,095
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Liked: 1517
there is a saying plastered on every wall of facebook headquarters...

"Done is better than perfect"

v2.0 can always be released later, but if v1.0 never gets out the door, there is nothing.

erich, perhaps you can provide a status update on where the 12" seos project stands?

in every project that i have ever managed, i have created an "action item" list and then kept status updates on a whiteboard. part of what is confusing here is that nobody can see the "whiteboard" of where everything stands and what tasks are left to be completed. perhaps you can type one up.

waveguide status: complete. options ??

c.d. status: ??

woofer selection: ?? what woofers are plug and play for the crossover?

crossover network: ?? will prebuilt crossovers be an option? is there a waferboard?

cabinet flat packs: ?? will prebuilts/assembly/finishing be an option?

list of tools required for different builds

build instructions with pics for different designs, .pdf, who is on that?

how to order. is the packing and shipping solution in place.

what if somebody has a problem?

etc. etc.

this way we can see which items still need to be worked out instead of losing focus and talking about related but not on target topics.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #2879 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 07:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 6,028
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

erich, perhaps you can provide a status update on where the 12" seos project stands?

in every project that i have ever managed, i have created an "action item" list and then kept status updates on a whiteboard. part of what is confusing here is that nobody can see the "whiteboard" of where everything stands and what tasks are left to be completed. perhaps you can type one up.

waveguide status: complete. options ??

c.d. status: ??

woofer selection: ?? what woofers are plug and play for the crossover?

crossover network: ?? will prebuilt crossovers be an option? is there a waferboard?

cabinet flat packs: ?? will prebuilts/assembly/finishing be an option?

list of tools required for different builds

build instructions with pics for different designs, .pdf, who is on that?

how to order. is the packing and shipping solution in place.

what if somebody has a problem?

etc. etc.

this way we can see which items still need to be worked out instead of losing focus and talking about related but not on target topics.



Actually, all of that was posted and I kept people updated. I believe it's normally the person that started the thread to update the progress in the first post????

I actually thought I was over doing the updates. The pages are moving so fast, it gets buried. But I assure you, it's there....many times over.

****************************************
All the fiberglass models: 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 18 can be special ordered right now. Poured cement models can be ordered on the next pallet for about half the price. The plastic SEOS-12 was the highest demanded model and tested better than pretty much any similar sized waveguide on the market (as did the other sizes).




I just got the production samples last week and posted photos. I wanted you guys to see them before I actually sent in the order. Many said they might want a matte finish, which I told the company.






The order will be placed and they will start making them in a couple weeks. A preorder will be starting in a couple days.


The parts for 200 of the 1" DE clone that test better than the DE250 have been ordered.....no titanium.





Parts for the 1" BA model have also been ordered.

Flat packs WILL be cut, but I need box sizes.

PCB's will be ordered, but I need crossover networks.


Every SEOS size is out in the public right now.

I'm ready to rock and roll with flat packs. I just need box sizes.
****************************************

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is online now  
post #2880 of 12566 Old 02-27-2012, 07:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 859
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 125
FWIW, it appeared that the BA driver had a plastic (mylar maybe?) suspension for its titanium (treated?) dome. The suspension looked like clear plastic to me. I don't know if that matters, though.
I've also used the Selenium BOLT ON driver, which is titanium, and didn't hear anything edgy sounding (unlike the screw on version). My ears aren't everyone elses' though.
(Also FWIW, I haven't ever really seen any correspondence between CSD plots and sound quality. Have measured a lot of drivers and made a number of programs to generate CSDs, too. Smooth looking has seemed to have little to do with smooth sounding).

DIY Synergy horn spreadsheet http://libinst.com/SynergyCalc/
XSim -free crossover designer and simulator http://libinst.com/Xsim/XSimSetup.exe
Easy and cheap sound diffusers (the "Depot Diffusers") making-easy-diy-depot-sound-diffuser-panels-step-step.html
bwaslo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off