Dayton OmniMic Precision Measurement System - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2090 Old 01-30-2011, 08:31 PM
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The measurement of the theater was on my netbook on battery power.
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post #542 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 02:29 AM
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Mine is scheduled to deliver today.

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post #543 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

The measurement of the theater was on my netbook on battery power.

DC,

MJ was seeing the same thing and he posted some information about it, starting at post 395. A few posts later is when the guy from PE came in with some information. It does sound you have a defective mic.

James
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post #544 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

When did you order it?

Friday of last week they told me they had the h/w but not the s/w, which was supposed to be in in 6 days i.e right about now.

I ordered it 1/7/2011 and got it about a week later.

Wayne
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post #545 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 07:23 AM
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No luck, it was sent Fedex home which does not run on Monday!
Looks like I have to wait until Tuesday.

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post #546 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Thanks for the tips Penngray, FOH and bwaslo.

I am going to do some more tests when I get some more free time.

I didn't have the heat on and even tried another room and got the same results so I am bit stumped. I just got home so no testing tonight and the rest of the week may be late nights but I will get to more tests by this weekend.

Hey Bill, any chance of a software update so the window can be expanded full screen?

Regarding the 60 Hz bump, did this every get resolved for you? I noticed the same thing the first time I used the OmniMic. I had a very sharp peak just under 60 Hz that reached 102 decibels. Showed up when playing any of the test tones/Sweeps. Raising or lowering the sub trim or receiver volume had no effect on the 102 peak. Also going to the SPL tab, in a very quite room, I was measuring a noice level in the 50-60 dbs.

Next day I briefly ran a couple of sweeps and the 60 Hz was gone, I did not check the SPL reading again, however. Unfortunately I have been out of town and haven't been able to spend any more time with this.

Something wasn't right. Even if I had some 60 hz noise coming from something in the room, it certainly wasn't 102 db.

Regards,
John

Regards,
John
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post #547 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dormie1360 View Post

Regarding the 60 Hz bump, did this every get resolved for you? I noticed the same thing the first time I used the OmniMic. I had a very sharp peak just under 60 Hz that reached 102 decibels. Showed up when playing any of the test tones/Sweeps. Raising or lowering the sub trim or receiver volume had no effect on the 102 peak. Also going to the SPL tab, in a very quite room, I was measuring a noice level in the 50-60 dbs.

Next day I briefly ran a couple of sweeps and the 60 Hz was gone, I did not check the SPL reading again, however. Unfortunately I have been out of town and haven't been able to spend any more time with this.

Something wasn't right. Even if I had some 60 hz noise coming from something in the room, it certainly wasn't 102 db.

Regards,
John

I was able to run Omnimic a couple of times without the 60hz peak but I would say it worked 2 out of 10 times and all the variables were the same.

I am in the process of getting a RMA # to return mine as I bought this for convenience, not to have problems like this. I am sure I got a defective mic and it sound like you may have the same problem.

When I get home tonight I will post graphs I did on the same day from my SMS-1, REW and Omnimic and you can guess which has the 60hz peak.

I have no doubt it's a good product, I just got unlucky. Now that I have gone through the trouble of setting up my REW again and saw how close my SMS-1 was I don't have the time to diagnose what the problem is with my Omnimic.

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post #548 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 01:20 PM
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I spoke with PE today and forwarded my screen captures of the 60hz peak to them. They said that the product brain-trust would look them over and get back to me tomorrow. I have also discovered that my problem is intermittent which is actually more troubling. Even if it works today, what confidence do I have that it won't do it again?
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post #549 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I spoke with PE today and forwarded my screen captures of the 60hz peak to them. They said that the product brain-trust would look them over and get back to me tomorrow. I have also discovered that my problem is intermittent which is actually more troubling. Even if it works today, what confidence do I have that it won't do it again?

Given it's a new product, it would sound reasonable (to me) for them to send you a new one and they get yours to test out.

If it is a system issue specific to you it is not fixed, but at least one variable is removed.

Mike
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post #550 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 01:59 PM
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I believe I was the one of the very first, if not the first, to get an OmniMic and I've not had any 60hz problems at all.

It's got a very nice feature set, and can be up and running on any PC in under a minute. I have inquired about down-loadable software revisions in the PE forum, but I've yet to hear back.

Good luck

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post #551 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I spoke with PE today and forwarded my screen captures of the 60hz peak to them. They said that the product brain-trust would look them over and get back to me tomorrow. I have also discovered that my problem is intermittent which is actually more troubling. Even if it works today, what confidence do I have that it won't do it again?

We are in the exact same boat.

Here is my REW graph:



SMS-1 graph:



And omnimic graph:



These were all taken on Friday. I was having an especially bad day with the OmniMic and couldn't get it to work at all on 2 different laptops both running on battery. I then decided to try out REW to see if it would pick up the 60hz peak with the same equipment, minus the OmniMic mic of coarse. I threw in the SMS-1 as well just to try out all the options I had available. I know the levels are all different but at one time they were all the same, I was just trying whatever I could to figure this out and the pics were just done at different times.

It is very simple to use and with the coming software upgrade to make the window open up it should be a real winner. It just looks like BIGmouthinDC and my-self got defective mics or something.
LL
LL
LL

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post #552 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 06:15 PM
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MJ,

Are you boosting both 15HZ and 20HZ by 6db? Thanks.

James
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post #553 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

MJ,

Are you boosting both 15HZ and 20HZ by 6db? Thanks.

James

Yeah,

I know 12db's down there is usually not advisable but with dual LMS and never listening past -10 from reference I am OK. I also have a 15hz HPF and am amp limited for the time being anyway. I need to run a 30amp line for my amps so for now I am just using a single Face F1200 to power the sealed LMS pair, I know, I know, I am a puss

I do have MUCH bigger amps to use with the LMS when I get the new line in but to be honest with you the F1200 is doing an admirable job with the pair so far. The other day I had all the blinds in the room shaking rather violently while cranking the fighter jet scene from LF or DH.

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post #554 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 08:18 PM
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MJ,

Thanks for the reply. If you had said you were bumping up like that I was going to ask was subs you have but now I do not need to. Little worried something was going to go pop but I don't think you have to worry too much with those drivers.

James
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post #555 of 2090 Old 01-31-2011, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post


We are in the exact same boat.

Here is my REW graph:

SMS-1 graph:

And omnimic graph:

These were all taken on Friday. I was having an especially bad day with the OmniMic and couldn't get it to work at all on 2 different laptops both running on battery. I then decided to try out REW to see if it would pick up the 60hz peak with the same equipment, minus the OmniMic mic of coarse. I threw in the SMS-1 as well just to try out all the options I had available. I know the levels are all different but at one time they were all the same, I was just trying whatever I could to figure this out and the pics were just done at different times.

It is very simple to use and with the coming software upgrade to make the window open up it should be a real winner. It just looks like BIGmouthinDC and my-self got defective mics or something.

I think it's interesting that our 60 hz peaks have the same amplitude.

Regards,
John
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post #556 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

The other day I had all the blinds in the room shaking rather violently while cranking the fighter jet scene from LF or DH.

What is LF or DH.

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post #557 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 04:48 AM
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Live Free or DieHard?
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post #558 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dormie1360 View Post

I think it's interesting that our 60 hz peaks have the same amplitude.

I think it is interesting that at least 3 units have the 60hz peak.
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post #559 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 08:10 AM
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I thing it is interesting that at least 3 units have the 60hz peak.
It's so interesting that I've postponed a purchase until the phenomenon is adequately explained by the manufacturer.
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post #560 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 08:59 AM
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Winner, Winner, chicken dinner

Exactly.

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post #561 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post
MJ,

Thanks for the reply. If you had said you were bumping up like that I was going to ask was subs you have but now I do not need to. Little worried something was going to go pop but I don't think you have to worry too much with those drivers.

James
I am going to drop the levels and re-run Audyssey, I have heard that Audyssey applies it's own inadvertent boost down low so we will see how that goes.

Thanks for looking out by the way, your right, with lesser subs that much boost could send them to an early grave. Even with the LMS I would never run War of the Worlds at reference with that much boost.

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post #562 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 09:10 AM
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I ran my graphs with Audyssey on and off and in three locations I was getting a boost of about 10db between 12-25HZ with Audyssey turned on.

James
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post #563 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 09:13 AM
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Audyssey does not apply boost of more than 9dB to any frequency let alone 10dB to a whole range.
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post #564 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 09:17 AM
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Then the Omni mic and its software is garage and cannot be trusted.

As I asked you before, have you ever measured your system to see this?

James
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post #565 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 09:27 AM
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Simple comparison of my results to someone who knows what they are doing:

These are of my 4Pi speakers

My measurement with the 60 hump (and others)



Wayne Parnham's published data:



Good correlation above 1000HZ
Crap below 100HZ
Head scratching results between.

I'm not claiming any great building skills but either my measurement procedure/gear is wonky or I did something funky to my project. The search for the answer continues.
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post #566 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post
Then the Omni mic and its software is garage and cannot be trusted.
What you have is a nice little device best used mainly for finding peaks and nulls to help best position speakers. For accurate FR measurements you need much more expensive equipment and sophisticated technique. Here is part of a post from the creator of Audyssey touching on how and why there are limits to boosting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post
The digital range is defined as the range from the softest to the loudest signal that can be represented. For a 24 bit system, this corresponds to about 120 dB (roughly). The maximum signal level is defined as 0 dBFS (FS=full scale). If you exceed 0 dBFS in the digital domain you will be clipping. If you have signals that are too low in level (say -100 dBFS) then you will start to get close to the noise floor and will start to hear hiss. So, a well designed product is designed to never exceed 0 dBFS internally and not hit the noise floor.

Now, let's talk about MultEQ. It is an equalization solution that creates filters that operate on the signal at all times. These filters have both boost and cut. A boost is basically a multiplication that amplifies the digital signal and therefore great care must be taken so that the result of that multiplication never exceeds 0 dBFS. In the case of MultEQ the maximum possible boost is 9 dB. So, when this max boost happens (rarely, but it does happen) we have to make absolutely sure that at no time the signal exceeds 0 dBFS. To do that, we drop the digital signal level by 9 dB before MultEQ is applied. Then 9 dB is added back in in the analog domain of the amplifier. That means the system is unity gain and there is no loss of level because of MultEQ.



Chris
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post #567 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
What you have is a nice little device best used mainly for finding peaks and nulls to help best position speakers. For accurate FR measurements you need much more expensive equipment and sophisticated technique. Here is part of a post from the creator of Audyssey touching on how and why there are limits to boosting.
So the multiple measurements taken over multiple systems with multiple measuring devises are wrong because they are cheap and the $2 Audyssey microphone is correct.

We might add that the system is pushed very hard in some cases beyond its limits with Audyssey and specially Dynamic EQ turned on. Your refusal to accept that it is not perfect does not make it any less real. You might want to step back from the punch bowl and lighten up on the cool-aid.

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post #568 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Good correlation above 1000HZ
Crap below 100HZ
Head scratching results between.

You measured your in your room, correct?

There's no reason to expect that below 100 Hz, or perhaps even 200 Hz, that the measurements would correlate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t6902wf View Post

Your refusal to accept that it is not perfect does not make it any less real. You might want to step back from the punch bowl and lighten up on the cool-aid.

For sure Chris knows how to administer (can't say if it's intentional or not) the Audyssey Koolaid.

He does a great job at making Aud sound like the be all/end all, and just goes silent when he doesn't have an explanation for it's misbehavior.

There have been several reports of these large LF boosts as well as others about sub overloading.

Noah
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post #569 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

What you have is a nice little device best used mainly for finding peaks and nulls to help best position speakers. For accurate FR measurements you need much more expensive equipment and sophisticated technique. Here is part of a post from the creator of Audyssey touching on how and why there are limits to boosting.

If that's what you say I will leave you with your opinion.

As I said in post 529:

"Added note:
I am not jumping up and down about the way Audyssey makes it changes, I am just measuring with and without it since the processor comes with that program and I wanted to see the difference between Audyssey and non Audyssey measurements."


And again you still have never answered my question on if you have measured your system? If so what "expensive equipment and sophisticated technique" did you use, have to do so? Feel free to post your information.

James
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post #570 of 2090 Old 02-01-2011, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post


There have been several reports of these large LF boosts as well as others about sub overloading.

And claims of people on internet forums count for exactly what? Let's hear some documented reports of people extracting some compensation for damage. Then maybe you have something. Yes I'm a fan of Audyssey. Let me know when someone comes up with something better at the pricepoint and I'm all over it.
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