Dayton OmniMic Precision Measurement System - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 01:32 PM
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Is there a way to run ominimic for spectrographs like Bosso uses? I would love to start showing those types of graphs so I can really see what is happening.
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post #1082 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Is there a way to run ominimic for spectrographs like Bosso uses? I would love to start showing those types of graphs so I can really see what is happening.

Not exactly. What Bosso does is mic his LP and feed that into SpectrumLab.

OmniMic has an RTA function that is sorta of like that but will look different. Though if you want to know 'what is happening' there's an RTA for that.

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post #1083 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Not exactly. What Bosso does is mic his LP and feed that into SpectrumLab.

OmniMic has an RTA function that is sorta of like that but will look different.

OK, I might have to bust out the pre mobile and behringer mic for the first time to run those. This omnimic is so simple to setup though. I just need to mess around with it more. I am putting the eD speakers up front tonight.

What do you think of that sweep!
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post #1084 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 01:57 PM
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Another great feature would be able to have more than one measurement position for bass decay, spectrogram. When i measure for main LP the other seat isn't very good. I have 2 velodyne dd subs which are fantastic for music, especially when the modes can be dealt with.
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post #1085 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post


Yes, used it twice! I am using my SPL meter set to fast. It is more accurate when I use track 4.

I think your method of SPL calibration could be signicantly innaccurate, or at the least not the best method. Right click on these links and copy. They are band limited(500-2000 Hz) -20 dB pink noise.

http://mehlau.net/audio/reference_le..._RMS_L.wav.zip
http://mehlau.net/audio/reference_le..._RMS_R.wav.zip

Play these tones and set your SPL meter to C-weighted slow. Adjust volume until the meter reads 85 dB. In the OM SPL tab set things to C-weighted slow. The correction will be the difference between the OM Max value and 85 dB.

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post #1086 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

that still looks like smoothing sort of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

No smoothing? I have not even seen a 1/6 chart that looks that smooth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Anyways, this is with no smoothing as you can see sharp edges on peaks and nulls. 1/6th smoothing would be a straight line for this.

It's hard to conclude from the graph whether there's smoothing or not.

5 - 30 Hz is about 2 1/2 octaves, and I count 17 recognizably different slopes/line segments in the graph, which would be about 1/7th octave each.

But those segments may be the max freq resolution available.

Bill once told me how the resolution is handled, but I can't remember whether it's by Hz or by octave.

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Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post

Uh.. yes it would. It would be a simple matter of basically starting over.

... and the Objective-C Apple forces down developers' throats is an ugly mess if you ask me. I learned it for iphone development but i don't like it one bit. Maybe that's why i don't see so many home grown mac apps.
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Originally Posted by lowpolyjoe View Post


... and the Objective-C Apple forces down developers' throats is an ugly mess if you ask me. I learned it for iphone development but i don't like it one bit. Maybe that's why i don't see so many home grown mac apps.

By design. Apple doesn't want home grown apps - "walled garden".

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

OK, I might have to bust out the pre mobile and behringer mic for the first time to run those. This omnimic is so simple to setup though. I just need to mess around with it more. I am putting the eD speakers up front tonight.

What do you think of that sweep!

Suspiciously smooth yet fantastically flat and extended. My likey!

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post #1090 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 03:27 PM
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i have gone through this entire thread and i can see there is a lot of comparison of the OM to REW and mentions of how the OM is not as powerful as REW. In what way do you guys mean? As powerful how? Cant the OM do everything REW does that is necessary to the measurement process?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

No smoothing? I have not even seen a 1/6 chart that looks that smooth.

the reason it looks so smooth as it is only spead out to 30Hz
a full spectrum would look a lot different

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Still does not look much like this one -


Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Sure. Look at all the "hair" at higher frequencies in an unsmoothed magnitude response:


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post #1093 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Still does not look much like this one -

does below 30hz and that graph is not spread out

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Spread it out all you want and the variance is still -40 to -22dB below 30Hz.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Spread it out all you want and the variance is still -40 to -22dB below 30Hz.

not sure why you don't get it unless we are talking different topics - it happens - no worries

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Spread it out all you want and the variance is still -40 to -22dB below 30Hz.

Ummm....

Completely different systems measured?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Here is a omnimic shot of my low end, no smoothing or no EQ. It was a 95 db sweep but again I forgot to set the DB offset. BTW, I mentioned earlier that it was under config but it is under the math tab.


This looks like a resolution thing. You can count the data points/octave, which means the measurement was taken at 1/6 octave, so smoothing would be largely irrelevant.

I don't know anything about Omni, but that's a 1/6 octave measurement with no smoothing a la the TrueRTA software, IMHO.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Is there a way to run ominimic for spectrographs like Bosso uses? I would love to start showing those types of graphs so I can really see what is happening.

You don't use measurement software to generate a SL graph. You just run SL and set your mic up at the LP with the mic/mic pre plugged into your interface or sound card or whatever you're using.

Make sure you get the FR sorted out first so you can reference that (with no smoothing).

Then you can run the SW output directly into your interface/SC and make a digital copy to compare the LP to the digits.

LMK if you need anything in setting up SL. It sure would be nice if someone was using the same SL settings as I am for direct comparisons and to take the load off of doing caps for the Master List thread.

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MK's graph only goes to 30Hz
show it to 10,000HZ and viola - jaggies

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post #1100 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

i have gone through this entire thread and i can see there is a lot of comparison of the OM to REW and mentions of how the OM is not as powerful as REW. In what way do you guys mean? As powerful how? Cant the OM do everything REW does that is necessary to the measurement process?

What measurement process do you have in mind? What is your projected task?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

MK's graph only goes to 30Hz
show it to 10,000HZ and viola - jaggies

Correct, 200hz and above starts to look like a cardiograph.

Bosso, I checked no smoothing so I don't know what else to do. When I get my speakers finalized I will start taking full range measurements. I am still learning omnimic. Again I checked no smoothing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Correct, 200hz and above starts to look like a cardiograph.

Bosso, I checked no smoothing so I don't know what else to do. When I get my speakers finalized I will start taking full range measurements. I am still learning omnimic. Again I checked no smoothing.

MK - even without mains just post full range graph
smooth look will be gone
Takes a few times using it to figure out all the varibles you can change.

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REW does a full res measurement, after which you can smooth it from 1 octave to 1/48 octave. Here's the same measurement with no smoothing and 1/6 octave and 1 octave smoothing applied:





As you can see, you go from +/- 2dB to +/- 8dB from 10-100 Hz, so you can delude yourself or you can use the measurement system for its intended function; to get a better response from your system.

It's hard to fix a problem that isn't showing up on your graph.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

You don't use measurement software to generate a SL graph. You just run SL and set your mic up at the LP with the mic/mic pre plugged into your interface or sound card or whatever you're using.

Make sure you get the FR sorted out first so you can reference that (with no smoothing).

Then you can run the SW output directly into your interface/SC and make a digital copy to compare the LP to the digits.

LMK if you need anything in setting up SL. It sure would be nice if someone was using the same SL settings as I am for direct comparisons and to take the load off of doing caps for the Master List thread.

Bosso

The one thing about using SpectrumLabs is that I haven't figured out if you can add the Mic Calibration file to it. Has anyone else figured that out? I know Bosso's mic doesn't need a cal file, but most of ours will, and in some cases the amount of adjustment required to calibrate to reference is several db's depending on the mic.

Without the ability to add a cal file, wouldn't that make the SpecLabs graphs moot as one wouldn't know how "off" the mic was in the first place?

Or have I missed something completely?

 

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MK,

One thing you can, if by chance you are using Windows 7, is instead of getting the screen shot through the Omni Mic software is to use the snipping tool from Win 7 to be able to showing the smoothing in the screen shot. Also, even though you do not like that one track, you still need to run whatever track the tab you are using calls for to get proper results.

One other thing about the Omni software in comparison to REW is that once an FRD file is saved, it is saved at whatever smoothing was originally selected. So with Omni you cannot save a FRD that had 1/6 smoothing, load it up and then change the smoothing to none, 1/24, etc and have that graph change as Bosso showed above with his example from REW. I hope that makes sense.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Correct, 200hz and above starts to look like a cardiograph.

Bosso, I checked no smoothing so I don't know what else to do. When I get my speakers finalized I will start taking full range measurements. I am still learning omnimic. Again I checked no smoothing.

All I'm saying is that the graph you posted is 1/6 octave. Make sure you have no smoothing checked before you run the sweep because afterward, it is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

The one thing about using SpectrumLabs is that I haven't figured out if you can add the Mic Calibration file to it. Has anyone else figured that out? I know Bosso's mic doesn't need a cal file, but most of ours will, and in some cases the amount of adjustment required to calibrate to reference is several db's depending on the mic.

Without the ability to add a cal file, wouldn't that make the SpecLabs graphs moot as one wouldn't know how "off" the mic was in the first place?

Or have I missed something completely?

Good point. I haven't explored the new version of SL, I just set it up for my system. Since I've never had to be concerned with a calibration file down to 2-4 Hz, I just don't know the answer to that one. But, I'll look into it soon.

On the subject, does anyone know what the Omnimic mic cal file adds below 20 Hz, as an average? I mean does OM publish a variation graph for their mics before calibration.

I know the use an ACOPacific mic as a reference for calibration files.

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Bosso, which one do you use? I've seen your rec for that for a long time and now I'm curious (of course after I finally get teh Omni) and I'm on their site and I have no idea what I'm looking at.

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post #1108 of 2090 Old 11-22-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

REW does a full res measurement, after which you can smooth it from 1 octave to 1/48 octave. Here's the same measurement with no smoothing and 1/6 octave and 1 octave smoothing applied:





As you can see, you go from +/- 2dB to +/- 8dB from 10-100 Hz, so you can delude yourself or you can use the measurement system for its intended function; to get a better response from your system.

It's hard to fix a problem that isn't showing up on your graph.

Bosso

How does one fix the upper bass in that graph with no smoothing? There seems too many peaks and nulls, positioning of the subs?

Oh yeah to the people that questioned if it was smoothed or not, look at bosso's unsmoothed graph, you clearly see how the 30hz and below is less peaky than upper bass.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

The one thing about using SpectrumLabs is that I haven't figured out if you can add the Mic Calibration file to it. Has anyone else figured that out? I know Bosso's mic doesn't need a cal file, but most of ours will, and in some cases the amount of adjustment required to calibrate to reference is several db's depending on the mic.

Without the ability to add a cal file, wouldn't that make the SpecLabs graphs moot as one wouldn't know how "off" the mic was in the first place?

Or have I missed something completely?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Good point. I haven't explored the new version of SL, I just set it up for my system. Since I've never had to be concerned with a calibration file down to 2-4 Hz, I just don't know the answer to that one. But, I'll look into it soon.

Bosso

I started looking into about adding a calibration file and this is what I found. It looks like it would be a little bit of work but can be done.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/S...e&var=1&tidx=1

http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/speclab/fi...htm#fft_filter

So we don't take this thread too far off topic, I started another thread about Spectrum labs captures to get these questions answered. I want to get a full how to written with a common settings file for anyone to use.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1374817

-Mike
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