the HouseWrecker. 11hz Twin CVX-15 Tapped Horn - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 417 Old 08-18-2011, 03:02 PM
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"This is very interesting discussion regarding the effect of the individual parameters and their effect on sound quality in spite of measuring flat."

this is what klippel is all about. breakdown the parameters one at a time, figure out a way to measure them, figure out if they make a measurable difference, correlate that to subjective sound quality. repeat cycle.

the problem with the approach is that most folks aren't klippel and different parameters take on more or less importance depending on the application, so it gets overly complicated quickly. also, these are small signal parameters that change with large signals. also, most folks want a simple answer and so get attached to a single parameter and focus on just it. it used to be power handling and xmax without even knowing the conditions under which they were determined. then it was low inductance and low qes motors. but, you can't just ignore all the other parameters. so just a note of caution to those thinking that one or two parameters is the whole thing.

after discussing it :-) for a long time with ricci, i'd say that his post sums it up pretty well.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=174

i see lilmike's design has the drivers mounted push-pull. this will help further linearize the drivers. the 9/11 horn is a pretty nice design. props there guy. :-)

db, minor sidebar, on the kicker website, the cvx specs are for the 06 model series. does the attached file reflect accurately the latest measurements for the driver used in this application? it was from a retailer website and was the only specs that i could find. (also if you could ask the tech guys to just put the driver sd in as one of the specs, that would be better than having to back it out from the volume displaced and the efmax rating; what is an efmax rating by the way?)

 

Kicker 10 CVX Series Manual.pdf 289.7255859375k . file

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post #182 of 417 Old 08-18-2011, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dB-Kicker View Post

High QES drivers have less electromagnetic control of the woofer cone / air in enclosure than lower QES drivers... They take longer to 'Start' and 'Stop', and more time to develop full cycle's.

Partially true, but falling into the "fast bass" trap.

Other things being equal, with the exception of more power needed to produce the same level, Qe doesn't affect how fast a driver accelerates.

The back EMF does make the cone stop faster however, with too high a Q resulting in ringing after cessation of the signal.

Noah
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post #183 of 417 Old 08-18-2011, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Partially true, but falling into the "fast bass" trap.

Other things being equal, with the exception of more power needed to produce the same level, Qe doesn't affect how fast a driver accelerates.

The back EMF does make the cone stop faster however, with too high a Q resulting in ringing after cessation of the signal.

I was thinking the same thing while reading it myself, like the Adire/Wiggins paper on driver size/weight having nothing to do with driver speed, rather inductance having to do with reactance.

I will say, despite me crying about an idea, it was just an idea. I put no work into an actual design, and had I continued to learn Hornresp and eventually made it to building, it of course wouldn't have made it anywhere near what this turned out to be. Excellent job Lilmike, very well done and I am glad that one of the best guys doing these things did it so it got done right. Had I done it eventually I would have messed it up and it would have been another one of my infamous van failures.
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post #184 of 417 Old 08-19-2011, 12:53 AM
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"and had I continued to learn Hornresp and eventually made it to building, it of course wouldn't have made it anywhere near what this turned out to be."

not sure. your designs have pretty much hit where you wanted them to. i think what you are saying is that you admire this design for what it is intended to do and would like to begin the journey to learn how to master the tools in order to create it yourself from scratch. once you've got the skills, no reason why you couldn't drop the same bomb. it just takes a lot of time and a LOT of frustration!!!

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post #185 of 417 Old 08-20-2011, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"and had I continued to learn Hornresp and eventually made it to building, it of course wouldn't have made it anywhere near what this turned out to be."

not sure. your designs have pretty much hit where you wanted them to. i think what you are saying is that you admire this design for what it is intended to do and would like to begin the journey to learn how to master the tools in order to create it yourself from scratch. once you've got the skills, no reason why you couldn't drop the same bomb. it just takes a lot of time and a LOT of frustration!!!

well if you continue to help, I just might continue to master this Hornresp
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post #186 of 417 Old 08-20-2011, 08:29 PM
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kw, no prob.

db-kicker, are there any pics of the truck build in situ?

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post #188 of 417 Old 09-28-2011, 07:53 PM
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Kryptonitewhite,

I somehow missed some of what must have happened here last month or whenever it was. I've been pretty busy with other things and haven't had time to read all the conversations.

When you posted those links above, I didn't know what some were posted for. I copy/pasted and did a quick search and noticed that you posted those on a few other forums.

When I checked those forum links I read some of what you were posting. I must have missed the arguing here and certainly don't want to rehash it.

BUT, I've got to tell you that you're wrong. Sorry. And I'm not one to argue on the forums. I talk to a lot of members here behind the scenes about certain projects that I try to help with. I do so because I'm too ignorant to figure some of it out on my own, and the questions aren't worth starting new threads over. I have no problem admitting that.

Anyway, I feel I should say this because it probably would have helped last month. Lilmike has been talking to me about those Kickers and quite a few other car subwoofers for what must be a year, could be more, I'm not sure. I can't recall exactly when it was, but it's been a long time.

Way back when I first asked him about cutting the Anarchy flat packs he was talking about some other great things he was working on. But we agreed that flat packing them would be difficult. We were even talking about having Eminence design a driver strictly for horn use. But Lilmike listed many car subs that were up to the task. We went back and forth by email for quite some time about this and the Kickers. I didn't know a good way to get Kickers for a "Group Buy".

So I told Lilmike I was going to call Eminence and see if they could build something. I called Eminence and talked with them......that's how I found out about the left over MFW subwoofers in February.



Either way, I read some of the stuff you said on those other forums and I'm not only surprised, but disappointed. I realize you probably don't care about that at this point, but figured I should tell you anyway. I think you were way out of line with that stuff.

Mike has a massive amount of designs. And I do mean a lot. But he won't post them until he's actually built it and tested it. I can assure you, he not only had the Kicker design going, but many many more. If I recall, his very first "prototype" had two of those 15's in it and he told me how nuts they would be with 2 enclosures (4 drivers). Looks like the final design for the truck actually used 2 enclosures built together with 4 drivers. I thought his original actually went a little under 25hz too. It was around there though.


Mike is definitely one of the great guys here and it just surprised me to read some of what you posted. Many guys on this forum don't like arguing back and forth, and they simply won't do it. I'm one of them too. But just because they don't argue as much, doesn't mean they're the ones that are wrong.

KW, if you happen to discover a good horn driver, I can pretty much guarantee that Lilmike already knows about it, and has already mocked up a design for it! Trust me on that.

You were a bit out of line.

Sorry for posting this here. I really didn't want to bring this stuff back up, but felt I should at least tell what I knew. I'm not going to argue about it.
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post #189 of 417 Old 09-28-2011, 10:52 PM
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It had absolutely NOTHING to do with Mike. It was Deon, dB-Kicker
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post #190 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Mike is definitely one of the great guys here and it just surprised me to read some of what you posted.

Yep - Mike's good people. I wouldn't have gotten as far as I have with horn design without his help.

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Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

It had absolutely NOTHING to do with Mike.

Sorry, but cross posting his private message to various forums doesn't exactly come off that way. Many of those posts are still up. I'd say you owe Mike an apology.
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post #191 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

Yep - Mike's good people. I wouldn't have gotten as far as I have with horn design without his help.



Sorry, but cross posting his private message to various forums doesn't exactly come off that way. Many of those posts are still up. I'd say you owe Mike an apology.

My initial post, my follow up post after the initial was ignored, then me starting my own thread about it, never once did I mention Mike. Not once.

It was all about Deon. Mike went off on a huge rant and in that rant specifically stated go ahead, make my day, post this up and cross post it on 100 forums. He asked for it. He got it. The forum moderators deleted my entire thread not just the post.

In the mean time, Deon confirmed his guilt of stealing what we discussed in our privare messages by sending me three private PMs none of them even referencing the obvious fact he took my idea, rather he gave me insider info about my idea...rubbed it in my face how well it performed, told me details about the horns performance none of you know about unless you talked privately with him, and gave me more corporate insider Kicker information.

Lilmike, I am sorry you initially thought that thread was blasting you. I know that you realized it wasn't you it was Deon when I replied and you replied, but no one else gt to see that because the thread was deleted, but since no one else got to see it since my thread was deleted, I'll say it one more time. Soryy Mike, thank you for you non stop contributions here, sorry it sounded like I was accusing you.

The proof is everywhere of the Facebook conversations Deon and I had then the Private Messages Deon and I had and how the exact idea suddenly appeared in what I planned on it being in.

I am done apologizing. I over apologized back when it happenmed and received private messages from forum members stating I did more apologizing than I should have and I was given good advice to go away for a day and let it blow over. I did so. In the mean time, everyone else who didn't have the opportunity to read my deleted thread had no idea just how much apologizing I did...KW style dissing on myself and hating on myself to make it very clear I was sorry that Mike took it personally.
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post #192 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 10:19 AM
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I just don't see what you are so mad about? You say someone stole an idea that you had and discussed during private messages...What was this idea or thing that was stolen that you feel like you have ben stabbed in the back over?
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post #193 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 11:31 AM
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Krytonitewhite, regardless of who you blame, the problem is that everything you posted on all 729 websites clearly looks like you're accusing Lilmike. That's just not right.

I have no reason to argue, I'm just calling it the way I currently see things.

Lilmike had the idea a LONG time ago and I'm just stating that I knew about it. Had I seen the discussion earlier, I would have said something then.


Many years ago I saw someone on a car audio forum discuss low tuning 18's in a station wagon and how it would be an interesting thing to try out. They never actually did it......but I see that you did something very similar. I doubt he'd be as aggravated.
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post #194 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 11:44 AM
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what exactly is this all about. What kind of design? I didnt ask last night when I saw Eric's post but now that more are talking about it, I'm curious.

I know lilmike is very great at helping everyone here in any way that he can so I'm just confused as why KW would ever talk bad about someone that I know he kind of mentors at least a little bit. And, its obvious that he did something that he regrets.

So, what is it?
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post #195 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 11:44 AM
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Enough of this, back to what this thread was originally about.

The derail was exactly that. Time to pick up the pieces from the trainwreck and move on.

HW V2 has been modeled, I am slowly working on the fold. We've changed the approach a bit based on a pretty serious cost-benefit evaluation. As a result of that little reality check, the new concept is to use a pair of smaller (in a relative sense...), single-driver cabinets and not go after those last 3-4 Hz.

As a result - while there may still be holes in the wall (subs may still be placed in the garage), the horn will not be folded through the wall as was originally envisioned. We did pick up a little efficiency with the raised corner. One cabinet is essentially equal to the dual-driver cabinet, and dB's planning on a pair.

As another benefit - this design might find just its way into other rooms, as it is just a big cabinet with a simpler rectangular section. As envisioned - it will be 84" tall, ~32" wide, and ~18" deep . We'll see what I can manage to fold into that space.
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post #196 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I just don't see what you are so mad about? You say someone stole an idea that you had and discussed during private messages...What was this idea or thing that was stolen that you feel like you have ben stabbed in the back over?

As the principal designer of the tapped horn sub in the bed of the "First Responder" 9-11 commemorative truck, I want to publicly state that the idea for this subwoofer design was mine, and it was arrived at completely independently by working with the specific requirements and measurements provided to me by the folks over at Kicker. There were a number of concepts and iterations sent back and forth during the design process. We evaluated a number of different drivers in a variety of different arrangements. Ultimately, we decided on a large tapped horn loaded with 4 CVX 15s tuned to approximately 25 Hz, as that was the size of the cabinet that fit into the space I had available. Initially, my target tune was 30 Hz, but as I had a little more space available due to a slight design change, I used it all.

I received no compensation for my efforts other than the gratitude of those involved and credit for the work I did. I'm honored to have been a part of the project.

While KryptoniteWhite feels that the sub I designed for the "First Responder" 9-11 commemorative truck project has some similarity to a "daydream" he shared with dB-Kicker, I can assure you, any resemblance is purely coincidental. It is also similar to a number of truck bed subs used by a number of people around the world. While this represents my take on a truck bed sub, it is not unique, nor was it influenced by anything other than the design criteria I had to work within. I am sorry that KryptoniteWhite feels his idea was stolen, I can assure you it was not. I was not even aware of his "daydream" or his accusations until after the cabinet was designed, built, and tested.

In closing, KryptoniteWhite dreamt something, which is cool. Don't ever stop dreaming, man.

Independently, I happened to conjure up something similar to one of his "daydreams", spent hours and hours turning my ideas into plans, then the folks at Kicker put in more than their share of blood, sweat, and tears into it, and turned my plans into something real.

Enough with this. That was then, this is now.

KW - Apology accepted. Sorry if I upset you. I meant no harm.
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post #197 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Krytonitewhite, regardless of who you blame, the problem is that everything you posted on all 729 websites clearly looks like you're accusing Lilmike. That's just not right.

I have no reason to argue, I'm just calling it the way I currently see things.

Lilmike had the idea a LONG time ago and I'm just stating that I knew about it. Had I seen the discussion earlier, I would have said something then.


Many years ago I saw someone on a car audio forum discuss low tuning 18's in a station wagon and how it would be an interesting thing to try out. They never actually did it......but I see that you did something very similar. I doubt he'd be as aggravated.

I clearly spelled out in all 1,987 forums that it was Deon, aka dB-Kicker

I never ever said lilmike...though I did copy/paste his PM as he requested.
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post #198 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

what exactly is this all about. What kind of design? I didnt ask last night when i saw eric's post but now that more are talking about it, i'm curious.

I know lilmike is very great at helping everyone here in any way that he can so i'm just confused as why kw would ever talk bad about someone that i know he kind of mentors at least a little bit. And, its obvious that he did something that he regrets.

So, what is it?

again this has absolutely nothing at all to do with little mike.
Every person that posts lilmike obviousely has not read everything in its entirety and therefore should say nothing!
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post #199 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Enough of this, back to what this thread was originally about.

The derail was exactly that. Time to pick up the pieces from the trainwreck and move on.

HW V2 has been modeled, I am slowly working on the fold. We've changed the approach a bit based on a pretty serious cost-benefit evaluation. As a result of that little reality check, the new concept is to use a pair of smaller (in a relative sense...), single-driver cabinets and not go after those last 3-4 Hz.

As a result - while there may still be holes in the wall (subs may still be placed in the garage), the horn will not be folded through the wall as was originally envisioned. We did pick up a little efficiency with the raised corner. One cabinet is essentially equal to the dual-driver cabinet, and dB's planning on a pair.

As another benefit - this design might find just its way into other rooms, as it is just a big cabinet with a simpler rectangular section. As envisioned - it will be 84" tall, ~32" wide, and ~18" deep . We'll see what I can manage to fold into that space.

Awesome news Mike! It's exciting! I've been hanging on every post since this thread started!
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post #200 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

As the principal designer of the tapped horn sub in the bed of the "First Responder" 9-11 commemorative truck, I want to publicly state that the idea for this subwoofer design was mine, and it was arrived at completely independently by working with the specific requirements and measurements provided to me by the folks over at Kicker. There were a number of concepts and iterations sent back and forth during the design process. We evaluated a number of different drivers in a variety of different arrangements. Ultimately, we decided on a large tapped horn loaded with 4 CVX 15s tuned to approximately 25 Hz, as that was the size of the cabinet that fit into the space I had available. Initially, my target tune was 30 Hz, but as I had a little more space available due to a slight design change, I used it all.

I received no compensation for my efforts other than the gratitude of those involved and credit for the work I did. I'm honored to have been a part of this project.

While KryptoniteWhite feels that the sub I designed for the "First Responder" 9-11 commemorative truck project has some similarity to a "daydream" he shared with dB-Kicker, I can assure you, any resemblance is purely coincidental. It is also similar to a number of truck bed subs used by a number of people around the world. While this represents my take on a truck bed sub, it is not unique, nor was it influenced by anything other than the design criteria I had to work within. I am sorry that KryptoniteWhite feels his idea was stolen, I can assure you it was not. I was not even aware of his "daydream" or his accusations until after the cabinet was designed, built, and tested.

In closing, KryptoniteWhite dreamt something, which is cool. Don't stop ever dreaming, man.

Independently, I happened to conjure up something similar to one of his "daydreams", spent hours and hours turning my ideas into plans, then the folks at Kicker put in more than their share of blood, sweat, and tears into it, and turned my plans into something real.

Enough with this. That was then, this is now.

KW - Apology accepted. Sorry if I upset you. I meant no harm.

Youre a great guy and I feel a million times better now. Thank you!

Jordan
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post #201 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

again this has absolutely nothing at all to do with little mike.
Every person that posts lilmike obviousely has not read everything in its entirety and therefore should say nothing!

I read enough to where if people didn't know the whole story, they were led to certain conclusions by what you posted on those other forums. And the conclusions involved Lilmike. You said your design was stolen, posted his comments, then started asking people what they would do if someone stole a design, and it just went down hill from there.

Posting that on 722 forums was not cool. I'm sure you realize that now. Deleting the whole mess of it would've be the way to apologize, instead of posting it on another 15,286 websites. Right?

Regardless, I'm not mad at anyone, because it doesn't personally involve me. I'm merely stating my thoughts from what I just read and comparing them to what I knew was going on behind the scenes.


I'm done with it and I think we should do what Lilmike asked, and let it die.

It's dead.
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post #202 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

...it will be 84" tall, ~32" wide, and ~18" deep .

That's about 10% more volume than a DTS-10; will be interesting to see how it does in comparison.

Noah
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post #203 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It looks like I need to respond to this directly.

Apologies for everyone here under this thread for having to hear someone air his personal vendetta against me on a forum dedicated to TH builds.

Jordan,

I have not responded to your accusations for several reasons, the first and by far the most important of which is:

April 22, 2011: My father was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung cancer– he now has less than a few months left to live.. I stopped talking to almost anybody not my immediate family, or closest friends then. This would be directly in the middle of you starting with this tirade.

Second:
Your accusations and ensuing onslaught deriding me for ‘stealing your idea’ has no basis in reality. You are not the first person who ever thought of dropping a TH in a vehicle. Search the web – there are dozens of threads where people have been doing exactly that since the first time we figured out how to model TH’s.

Your questions to me regarding to the usefulness of using multiple of Solo X’s loading a TH in your VAN, firing them forward at an SPL microphone from the rear of the van’s insides are in no way shape or form even relative to the project you have been up in arms about.

The TH sub in the First Responder sits in the truck bed and fires into the surrounding atmosphere. It isn’t loaded anywhere in to the vehicle. It is used as an out door sound reinforcement woofer – PA style.

Before that, and before you ever asked me about TH’s in your Van, some history - all of which is documented…

2007: My first TH discussion with the inventor of Tapped Horns (also the TH patent applicant) and my friend Thomas Danley regarding TH and TH woofer design theory dates to BEFORE HIS RELEASE OF THE DTS 10 Super Spud!

Tom approached me while I worked for TC Sounds regarding the suitability of TCS 3k woofers – or a new driver design suitable for his TH’s – while he was designing either the MatterHorn, or a TH subwoofer he was commissioned by someone in Marin county CA (I think) to build. Or maybe the Bay area... Thomas D can correct the time frame and specifics I am sure.

November 3 2008: My first e-mail discussion regarding a large outdoor truck bed 25hz Horn subwoofer began here at work, with a request from our Venezuelan distributor for a high SPL sub design for use in truck beds of their outdoor crowd competition vehicles.

I committed to our trainers to design one when I could. I was also asked to design PA subwoofers for Ted Nugent’s band – which would be the same type of 25hz sound reinforcement type sub. 25hz was my goal based on my involvement in the first 'Single Subwoofer' approved for THX duty in theaters exceeding 350 seat capacity.

The Aurasound powered THX sub was tuned to 26hz. I have been trying to help the pro-sound world extend 'bass' of sound reinforcement subs below 40hz for almost two decades now. My hope was to completely Wow our southern friends with REAL Bass.

2009: Mike documented his first quad-driver tapped horn over at DIYAudio.com in the "collaborative thread". The layout is inverted, but the design concept is essentially the same as what he folded up for the "First Responder" project.

Dec 6 2009: after Tom shared his DTS-10 Super Spud drawings with me –then helped me redesign the Super DTS subwoofer for my personal use to accommodate our CVX 12 drivers. I had planned to use a variation of the DTS-10 as my home ULF – we traded models, driver details, and drawings. We also discussed a Quad variant of it at that time, I have cad models traded with him then showing this.

July 07 2010: I sent an email to William Cowan requesting information on TH’s. Directly after, I decided to test the idea of TH use in vehicles with a variant of Erik Forker's (Volvotreter) 6.5” 30hz TB. I built this as a proof of concept TH test bed exploring TH applications, sound quality, and reaction to coupling in small chambers.. I hadn’t heard them yet, and needed a small unit to play with.

My lab tech and I took this 6.5” 28hz TB TH and installed it in his truck, then my personal vehicle. That little 6.5” driver hit 114dB @ 22hz with no effort whatsoever in my Mustang – moving the package shelf up and down over an inch. I call that digging deeeeeep for a 6.5".

It finally gave up the ghost with a 128dB belch before losing it's dustcap and bottoming severely. My then lab tech rebuilt the driver and soldiered on. That little feat completely opened my eyes to TH potential. This was before I met Mike.

After experience with this little TH my desire for a TH used as ULF in my own home to replace my prior line up of theBeast-MK’s 1 through IV grew strong. For the record, the first of theBeast subs were shown at a DIY audio meet in SoCal in 1997.

Enter Mike.

July 8’th 2010: My first discussion with Mike P. about TH Folding began with us working on various TH folds, including theHouseWrecker – and other higher tuned crazy subwoofer enclosure ideas. Including the possibility of doing a variant suitable to use for a truck bed for our Venezuelan customers. We also discussed the suitability of TH’s to enclosed vehicles with variations for SPL vehicle duty. And.... Wait for it......

July 27, 2010: Joshua H. from NASA (yes the Aerospace corporation) e-mailed me with questions regarding using our Solo X’s in an acoustic chamber to stress test equipment that will be used on the mobile launcher at Kennedy Space Center. The chamber utilizes (4) Solo X 18” drivers in a sealed configuration being powered by (4) 14Kwatt amplifiers. After speaking with Joshua, Mike P and I discussed the suitability, or in-suitability of using a TH variation with our Solo X’s for the NASA project.

August 2 2010: directly after Joshua’s e-mail discussing NASA’s acoustic stress chamber, I was approached by one of our trainers with a side project to help with a sub that needed to work for the 9-11 tribute parade truck. He needed a subwoofer that would get DOWN and play LOUD without the benefit of CABIN GAIN, and the truck bed subwoofer was once again re-initiated, in earnest this time.

August 12 2010: My Lab tech had his last day, he moved on to a new career opportunity working in nuclear power plants.. Remember - He and I had built a variation of Volvotreter’s TB TH – tuned to 28hz – just to show people what you could do with a tiny driver and a TH sub in a vehicle before he ever left.

December 6 2010: I traded Mike’s and my idea’s for TH designs with Tom Danley – sending renders, models, HR txt data, and CAD files letting him know what I was naming it, getting his input, making sure he didn’t have issues with the purpose – etc..

The common thread here is a timeline of events playing with subs, horn sub idea’s, including TH’s for personal, and recreational use. This timeline involves friends and myself building TH’s in homes and putting them in vehicles prior to your first communication with me.

If I recollect that was around the beginning of April 2011 this year. Since it wasn’t an E-mail – I can’t date it, though you ripped the whole conversation, it’s still under a YouTube video.

So, make sure I have this right:

A sound reinforcement subwoofer we started working ideas up for in 2009 which stemmed from a request to design an outdoor truck bed horn subwoofer for the Venezuelan market back in 2008, that over time evolved into a truck bed TH sub collaboration with Mike; which was a variation of a project he displayed online in 2009 and is now used for a commemorative tribute vehicle, 'I somehow stole from you' deep into 2011?!?!? This was your personal intellectual property?

My employer donated everything to that project without any form of recognition for the company, or the personnel involved. Myself, Mike, John, and Gene all donated our time and energy for free. Rest assured the expertise, the energy spent, literal blood sweat and tears involved with the whole project came about 100% w/o any input from you.

I dropped a TH into my own car more than a year before you asked about Solo-X’s suitability to a SPL vehicle TH in your Van. The project has NOTHING to do with SPL vehicles – it is a sound reinforcement system to broadcast sound to an external audience.

Not one single person or company or sponsor are identified on that truck anywhere an audience can see anything out of respect for the families, we were asked to help for free and we gave our help gladly! One of my own friends was in the second tower as it started coming down – he’s a New York city police officer. He barely got out alive with 3 fire fighters and 3 civilians he was escorting.

You asked me whether the Solo-X’s would work for an SPL vehicle (your own VAN), Jordan. My abrupt cessation of communication with you had nothing to do with you – or even the world of subwoofers. I stopped talking to you because I was on an airplane to be beside my father some 2,000 miles away, fearful that I would never get to see him alive again.

For that I have the privilege of being reamed by you, having you make YouTube Video’s disclosing my PERSONAL Face Book profile and private IM’s with you, then I have the honor of having you rip me across the internet, cross posting hundreds of threads, dropping links sharing private conversations, taking things I communicate with you out of context and claiming I stole your intellectual property rights for your personal vendetta.

Let me say this Jordan. And I fully realize you’ll more than likely rip another enormous internet armchair warrior shred thread against me, but I will say it.

You owe more than Mike an apology.
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post #204 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 04:49 PM
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April 22, 2011: My father was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung cancer

Very sorry to hear about this - I can relate, as I lost my grandfather to the disease. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
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post #205 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 05:00 PM
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It looks like I need to respond to this directly.

Apologies for everyone here under this thread for having to hear someone air his personal vendetta against me on a forum dedicated to TH builds.

Jordan,

I have not responded to your accusations for several reasons, the first and by far the most important of which is:

April 22, 2011: My father was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung cancer- he now has less than a few months left to live.. I stopped talking to almost anybody not my immediate family, or closest friends then. This would be directly in the middle of you starting with this tirade.

Second:
Your accusations and ensuing onslaught deriding me for stealing your idea' have no basis in reality. You are not the first person who ever thought of dropping a TH in a vehicle. Search the web - there are dozens of threads where people have been doing exactly that since the first time we figured out how to model TH's.

Your questions to me relating to the usefulness of using multiple of Solo X's loading a TH in your VAN, firing them forward at an SPL microphone from the rear of the van's insides are in no way shape or form even relative to the project you have been up in arms about.

The TH sub in the First Responder sits in the truck bed and fires into the surrounding atmosphere. It isn't loaded anywhere in to the vehicle. It is used as an out door sound reinforcement woofer - PA style.

Before that, and before you ever asked me about TH's in your Van, some history, all of which is documented

2007: My first TH discussion with the inventor of Tapped Horns (also the TH patent applicant) and my friend Thomas Danley regarding TH and TH woofer design theory dates to BEFORE HIS RELEASE OF THE DTS 10 Super Spud!

Tom approached me while I worked for TC Sounds regarding the suitability of TCS 3k woofers - or a new driver design suitable for his TH's - while he was designing either the MatterHorn, or a TH subwoofer he was commissioned by someone in Marin county CA (I think) to build. Or maybe the Bay area... Thomas D can correct the time frame and specifics I am sure.

November 3 2008: My first e-mail discussion regarding a large outdoor truck bed 25hz Horn subwoofers began here at work, with a request from our Venezuelan distributor for a high SPL sub design for use in truck beds of their outdoor crowd competition vehicles. I committed to our trainers to design one when I had could. I was also asked to design PA subwoofers for Ted Nugent's band - which would be the same type of 25hz sound reinforcement type sub.

2009: Mike documented his first quad-driver tapped horn over at DIYAudio.com in the "collaborative thread". The layout is inverted, but the design concept is essentially the same as what he folded up for the "First Responder" project.

Dec 6 2009: after Tom shared his DTS-10 Super Spud drawings with me -then helped me redesign the Super DTS subwoofer for my personal use to accommodate our CVX 12 drivers. I had planned to use a variation of the DTS-10 as my home ULF - we traded models, driver details, and drawings. We also discussed a Quad variant of it at that time, I have cad models traded with him then showing this.

July 07 2010: I sent an email to William Cowan requesting information on TH's. Directly after, I decided to test the idea of TH use in vehicles with a variant of Erik Forkers (Volveter) 6.5 30hz TB. I built this as a proof of concept TH test bed exploring TH applications use in vehicles. I hadn't heard them yet, and needed a small unit to play with.

My lab tech and I took this 6.5 28hz TB TH and installed it in his truck, then my personal vehicle. That little 6.5 driver hit 114dB @ 22hz with no effort whatsoever in my car - moving the package shelf up and down over an inch. I call that digging deeeeeep for a 6.5. This was before I met Mike.

After experience with this little TH my desire for a TH used as ULF in my own home to replace my prior line up of theBeast-MK's 1 through IV grew strong. For the record, the first of theBeast subs were shown at a DIY audio meet in SoCal in 1997. Enter Mike.

July 8'th 2010: My first discussion with Mike P. about TH Folding began with us working on various TH folds, including theHouseWrecker - and other higher tuned crazy subwoofer enclosure ideas. Including the possibility of doing a variant suitable to use for a truck bed for our Venezuelan customers. We also discussed the suitability of TH's to enclosed vehicles with variations for SPL vehicle duty.

July 27, 2010: Joshua H. from NASA (yes the Aerospace corporation) e-mailed me with questions regarding using our Solo X's in an acoustic chamber to stress test equipment that will be used on the mobile launcher at Kennedy Space Center. The chamber utilizes (4) Solo X 18 drivers in a sealed configuration being powered by (4) 14Kwatt amplifiers. After speaking with Joshua, Mike P and I discussed the suitability, or in-suitability of using a TH variation with our Solo X's for the NASA project.

August 2 2010: directly after Joshua's e-mail discussing NASA's acoustic stress chamber, I was approached by one of our trainers with a side project to help with a sub that needed to work for the 9-11 tribute parade truck. He needed a subwoofer that would get DOWN and play LOUD without the benefit of CABIN GAIN, and the truck bed subwoofer was once again re-initiated, in Ernest this time.

August 12 2010: My Lab tech had his last day, he moved to a new career opportunity working in nuclear power plants.. Remember - He and I had built a variation of Volveter's TB TH - tuned to 28hz - just to show people what you could do with a tiny driver and a TH sub in a vehicle before he ever left.

December 6 2010: I traded Mike's and my idea's for TH designs with Tom Danley - sending renders, models, HR txt data, and CAD files letting him know what I was naming it, getting his input, making sure he didn't have issues with the purpose - etc..

The common thread here is a timeline of events playing with subs, horn sub idea's, including TH's for personal, and recreational use. This timeline involves friends building TH's in homes and putting them in vehicles prior to your first communication with me.

If I recollect that was around the beginning of April 2011 this year. Since it wasn't an E-mail - I can't date it, though you ripped the whole conversation, it's still under a YouTube video.

So let me know if I have this right.
A sound reinforcement subwoofer we started working ideas up for in 2009 which stemmed from a request to design an outdoor truck bed horn subwoofer for the Venezuelan market back in 2008, that over time evolved into a truck bed TH sub collaboration with Mike; which was a variation of a project he displayed online in 2009 and is now used for a commemorative tribute vehicle I somehow stole from you deep into 2011?!?!? This was your personal intellectual property?

My employer donated everything to that project without any form of recognition for the company, or the personnel involved. Myself, Mike, John, and Gene all donated our time and energy for free.

I dropped a TH into my own car more than a year before you asked about Solo-X's suitability to a SPL vehicle TH in your Van. The project has NOTHING to do with SPL vehicles - it is a sound reinforcement system to broadcast sound to an external audience.

Not one single person or company or sponsor are identified on that truck anywhere an audience can see anything out of respect for the families, we were asked to help for free and we gave our help gladly! One of my own friends was in the second tower as it started coming down - he's a New York city police officer. He barely got out alive with 3 fire fighters and 3 civilians he was escorting.

You asked me about the Solo-X's would work for an SPL vehicle (your own VAN), Jordan. My abrupt cessation of communication with you had nothing to do with you - or even the world of subwoofers. I stopped talking to you because I was on an airplane to be beside my father some 2,000 miles away, fearful that I would never get to see him again.

For that I have the privilege of being reamed by you, having you make YouTube Video's disclosing my PERSONAL Face Book profile and private IM's with you, then I have the honor of having you rip me across the internet, cross posting hundreds threads, dropping links sharing private conversations, taking things I communicate with you out of context and claiming I stole your intellectual property rights for our vendetta.

Let me say this Jordan. And I fully realize you'll more than likely rip another enormous internet armchair warrior shred thread against me, but I will say it.

You owe more than Mike an apology.

Deon, I apologize to you as well. When I received 3 PMs after my first comment, I felt it was to cover up and avoid reponding directly to my implication. I was very wrong, and I am sorry. I will cross post this to the other threads to admit my wrongs everywhere else as well.

Jordan
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post #206 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

not go after those last 3-4 Hz.....


NOOOOOOOO!!!

OK, so the tuning is 14Hz, right?

JSS
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post #207 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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NOOOOOOOO!!!

OK, so the tuning is 14Hz, right?

JSS

After experiencing over 140dB @ 25hz in an enormous listening room (testing the First Responder Sub) and seeing just how 'giddy' it makes people, (It was INTENSE) I decided we could give up a couple hz extension - and shoot for well over 130 above 20 at my couch, maybe even approach 140.....

Not have to build window box braces between, and pull flares through the living room / garage makes the build simple - comparatively.

Being small enough for more than just myself to use is an enormous side benefit...

It's gonna be fuuuun.. Side note - I have room for four......

};->
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post #208 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 05:21 PM
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That will be something, for sure!

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post #209 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Deon, I apologize to you as well. When I received 3 PMs after my first comment, I felt it was to cover up and avoid reponding directly to my implication. I was very wrong, and I am sorry. I will cross post this to the other threads to admit my wrongs everywhere else as well.

Jordan

Thank you Jordan.

I PM'd you because I knew you were eager to hear how big TH's sound, and are enthusiastic in our hobby. I did not have the emotional wherewithal to deal with your onslaught.

Sadly, I used to enjoy watching your projects on FB. Reminded me why I've buried myself in this industry so deeply.
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post #210 of 417 Old 09-29-2011, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dB-Kicker View Post

Thank you Jordan.

I PM'd you because I knew you were eager to hear how big TH's sound, and are enthusiastic in our hobby. I did not have the emotional wherewithal to deal with your onslaught.

Sadly, I used to enjoy watching your projects on FB. Reminded me why I've buried myself in this industry so deeply.

Sorry to have done that especialy at a tough time like that in your life, I hope you can enjoy future works from me. All forums updated, over and done
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