Need a little rallying here for MiniDSP Software Upgrade... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Have been fooling around with my MiniDSP (www.minidsp.com) device and the 4 way advanced plug in I purchased. It's quite the incredible EQ device. I spliced an old DC cell phone charger (4.8volts or so) and connected the leads (ensuring which one was positive and which was negative) into the Phoenix power block option you can get it with (the power block option is free). I can now have the MiniDSP plugged in at all times and when needed plug a USB cable from my computer into the DSP to make changes on the fly and run REW to check the changes.

REW also supports the MiniDSP and you can import EQ filters from REW into the MiniDSP.

Here are some screen shots of the software to give you an idea of what it can do ...



Apply low pass, high pass xovers to all 4 outputs (LR, BW, Bessel, 12/24/48db slopes) or bypass. Weakness? 20hz is the lowest you can apply.



Apply up to 6 PEQs to each of the 4 outputs (you can also apply them globally to all outputs at once if desired). You can choose from Peak, High Shelf and Low Shelf EQs with up to 16db or boost or cut, and a Q from 0.5 to 50 (note, you can even apply a Q to the low shelf EQ which you can't do IIRC in the DCX 2496?).

Weakness? Again, only down to 20hz (similar to the DCX).



The above is the Gain/Delay/Polarity screen, and is the weakest part of the MiniDSP. You only have polarity option (can invert it or not), which doesn't seem to do anything, no phase options available. Further, the max delay is only 7.5ms (8.5 feet), so not overly useful.

Thankfully with my subs both equidistance from the LP, I was able to use the distance setting in the Processor (AV7005 in my case) to correctly adjust for distance and this is the response I got after applying a low shelf filter at 29hz and a boost of 6db with a Q of 1.8, and a cut of 10db at 39hz and a Q of 5 ...



Pretty good no?

Here's what I'm asking of you guys! Can you register over at the MiniDSP forum site, and respond in this thread that you would also like to see the changes made to the software and that would make you "consider" purchasing the device? They seem to wait for enough people to ask for the same thing before making changes, and I think this would be a killer device with these changes applied!

http://www.minidsp.com/support/forum...-phase-control

At about $160 including shipping and software, and a willing manufacturer who changes the product constantly to meet the demands of it's consumers, the kit is a steal given what you can do EQ wise for up to 4 subs.
LL
LL
LL
LL

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #2 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 08:27 AM
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You can implement biquad filters for the sub 20hz stuff. Somewhere on the minidsp forum there is a spreadsheet that makes easy work of this.

I do agree that it would make things easier if they just extended the GUI's frequency range and I have a feeling they will do that in due time.
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post #3 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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If you've already registered, would you mind posting in that thread I started that you'd also like to see a variable phase control as well as changes in the GUI? I have no idea how to use the bi-quad stuff, I'm sure I can figure it out in the spreadsheet but seems a bit overly complicated (and to be honest, given my response I really don't need it personally but can see it providing a nice competitive advantage if in the GUI)... but the variable phase control would be a huge asset to anyone EQing more than 1 sub.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #4 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 08:51 AM
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pbc, i just registered and posted.

i'd encourage others to do the same. guys, it takes 5 seconds to register.

small price to pay for a gadget for which we may be able to suggest enhancements...we're not going to get that from behringer.

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post #5 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Have been fooling around with my MiniDSP (www.minidsp.com) device and the 4 way advanced plug in I purchased. It's quite the incredible EQ device. I spliced an old DC cell phone charger (4.8volts or so) and connected the leads (ensuring which one was positive and which was negative) into the Phoenix power block option you can get it with (the power block option is free). I can now have the MiniDSP plugged in at all times and when needed plug a USB cable from my computer into the DSP to make changes on the fly and run REW to check the changes.

REW also supports the MiniDSP and you can import EQ filters from REW into the MiniDSP.

Here are some screen shots of the software to give you an idea of what it can do ...



Apply low pass, high pass xovers to all 4 outputs (LR, BW, Bessel, 12/24/48db slopes) or bypass. Weakness? 20hz is the lowest you can apply.



Apply up to 6 PEQs to each of the 4 outputs (you can also apply them globally to all outputs at once if desired). You can choose from Peak, High Shelf and Low Shelf EQs with up to 16db or boost or cut, and a Q from 0.5 to 50 (note, you can even apply a Q to the low shelf EQ which you can't do IIRC in the DCX 2496?).

Weakness? Again, only down to 20hz (similar to the DCX).



The above is the Gain/Delay/Polarity screen, and is the weakest part of the MiniDSP. You only have polarity option (can invert it or not), which doesn't seem to do anything, no phase options available. Further, the max delay is only 7.5ms (8.5 feet), so not overly useful.

Thankfully with my subs both equidistance from the LP, I was able to use the distance setting in the Processor (AV7005 in my case) to correctly adjust for distance and this is the response I got after applying a low shelf filter at 29hz and a boost of 6db with a Q of 1.8, and a cut of 10db at 39hz and a Q of 5 ...



Pretty good no?

Here's what I'm asking of you guys! Can you register over at the MiniDSP forum site, and respond in this thread that you would also like to see the changes made to the software and that would make you "consider" purchasing the device? They seem to wait for enough people to ask for the same thing before making changes, and I think this would be a killer device with these changes applied!

http://www.minidsp.com/support/forum...-phase-control

At about $160 including shipping and software, and a willing manufacturer who changes the product constantly to meet the demands of it's consumers, the kit is a steal given what you can do EQ wise for up to 4 subs.

I am interested in that graph. What are we looking at
Blue: Before
Purple: After
Gold: Full Range

It looks like Gold and Purple have smoothing and Blue does not.

I will also post on the minidsp website. I am already a member, it seems to be a very cool little devise.

T6

Clearwave 4TSE and 4CC build thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19489740
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post #6 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, have two threads going (see my EQ question thread). The blue is the native response of the dual woofers at the LP, no smoothing (should have smoothed it), purple is with MiniDSP applied (no Audyssey) and again, only the dual subs, last one is with MiniDSP, Audyssey and front right channel on.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #7 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 10:10 AM
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Weakness? Again, only down to 20hz (similar to the DCX).
You have to move beyond the basic screen and go advanced, learn about the biquad transfer function stuff and then you are not limited to 20Hz preset screens.

The MiniDSP is nothing like the DCX.

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post #8 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post
Here's what I'm asking of you guys! Can you register over at the MiniDSP forum site, and respond in this thread that you would also like to see the changes made to the software and that would make you "consider" purchasing the device? They seem to wait for enough people to ask for the same thing before making changes, and I think this would be a killer device with these changes applied!

http://www.minidsp.com/support/forum...-phase-control

At about $160 including shipping and software, and a willing manufacturer who changes the product constantly to meet the demands of it's consumers, the kit is a steal given what you can do EQ wise for up to 4 subs.


Its a killer device, what I want is an online app or another application that we can run to generate all the advanced values (click on the advanced button). CLick on the Biquad Calculator tab and post that screen. I do not have that additional tab and I didnt download that software, I have the advanced 2-way design software but its essentially the same. I guess they have made some nice mods lately.

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post #9 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 01:43 PM
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I have two "miniDSP in a box" and am totally satisfied, almost. I wish I could easily define a boost below 20Hz and also a crossover at about 15Hz as a "rumble filter." Not a big deal to me though. I notice no degradation despite the 48kHz maximum sampling rate.
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post #10 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I have two "miniDSP in a box" and am totally satisfied, almost. I wish I could easily define a boost below 20Hz and also a crossover at about 15Hz as a "rumble filter." Not a big deal to me though. I notice no degradation despite the 48kHz maximum sampling rate.

With biquad transfer function you can define almost whatever you would like. If you post what you want on the Minidsp website there are people that will help define the biquad values for you.

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19489740
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post #11 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Sorry, have two threads going (see my EQ question thread). The blue is the native response of the dual woofers at the LP, no smoothing (should have smoothed it), purple is with MiniDSP applied (no Audyssey) and again, only the dual subs, last one is with MiniDSP, Audyssey and front right channel on.

Or we can all post in that thread that we'd like them to make the changes in the GUI (including polarity please!) to eliminate the need for figuring out the biquad calcs ...

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #12 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I have two "miniDSP in a box" and am totally satisfied, almost. I wish I could easily define a boost below 20Hz and also a crossover at about 15Hz as a "rumble filter." Not a big deal to me though. I notice no degradation despite the 48kHz maximum sampling rate.


Theresa, can you post some pics of your dual MiniDSP's in a box....

I'm pretty happy with my DCX and MIC2200 combo, but that sure would free up some space.... I am interested in this unit but I think it has some further development to come along...

Although My MIC2200 provides me with some much needed boost and HP filter to seemingly get the most out of my config.... Curious if the Mini would still allow me in the future to remove both units...
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post #13 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice update coming from MiniDSP! Too bad about the delay ...

Quote:


Hey guys,

Let me try answering to your comments in a single post:

- miniDSP is about to release a free update to all our plug-ins sometime this week. It will already provide dialing of frequency for both EQ and Filtering(LPF/HPF) down to 10Hz. It's been in the work for quite some time now since it was asked by other DIYers. Along with some other neat optimization of the UI, it will be a good start to year 2011.

- Note that you could use the Biquad spreadsheet in the mean time (like current users do). It will allow you to program your app. Also note that in the Advanced plug-in, you have a "Biquad calculator tab" allowing you to calculate the biquad settings.

- The variable phase object may mean a dedicated plug-in. See below comments about that.

- As for the delay, note that this question was already asked before. The answer is that 4 * 7.5ms is already close to maxing out the specs of the IC. In other words, not technically possible to extend it else there is no reason why we wouldn't have done it earlier! If we were to build a Sub plug-in, then we could eventually lower the number of output channels (e.g. down to 2) to allow more delay. (i.e. double/ch)

The sub eq wouldn't require much modification compared to what you're seeing now on 4way/2way Advanced EQ. Specs we're thinking about would be as follow:
- 2 x in (in case u want stereo sub)
- 2 x out (selectable as stereo or from mono input with a matrix in the middle)
- 12*PEQ out/ch
- 14.5ms delay/ch
- Bandpass filter for up to 8th order (48dB)
- Variable phase
- Linkwitz transform calculations and other advanced biquad ideas which we'll keep as a surprise.

Last but not least... I'm not sure if miniDSP can be compared to the Behringer gear... we're in some way a lot more flexible (thanks to our plug-in concept + hardware board stacking). Behringer is what we would call "fixed architecture", what you see is what you get. Don't expect a firmware upgrade nor the company entertaining ideas of future improvement. miniDSP been up and running for about a year now, has no less than 7 products in our portofolio and about 10 plug-ins for a wide range of applications..

I hope that people can see us under a different light for the hard work going behind the scenes to make these little puppies work.....

Hope this info helps.

DevTeam


 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #14 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Theresa, can you post some pics of your dual MiniDSP's in a box....

I'd hazard a guess that it is no longer then a dollar bill and probably about an inch to two high.
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post #15 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm ... can't recall if this was available when I purchased my MiniDSP, but looks like they have one with all balanced connections now ....

http://www.minidsp.com/images/docume...nced%202x4.pdf

How would one use that style of balanced connection though? I.e., it's not your usual XLR connector but simply the 3 pins?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #16 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 06:47 AM
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PBC-

They didn't have room on the PCB for a XLR jack. You simply need to wire those three wires to an XLR jack on your case.

To anyone with a DCX that wants a few more features and more flexibility in a smaller package for less money, I'd suggest the MiniDSP ASAP. I've only used it to EQ a sub so far, but I'm planning to use it for some active 2-ways as well. It is overkill for a sub, but works great. The biquads are easy to use once you are used to them as well. FYI, you would likely still need a signal booster like the Mic2200 or Samson box though into a pro amp if you need one now.
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post #17 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 07:34 AM
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Thanks for the response coctostan (Fletch reference ? )

I'm surprised I need something of a boost coming out of my D2v, maybe I didn't setup the gain structure just right, but needless to say I'm all set now - WOW

Anyway, maybe you could give an idea here as to how to setup the BiQuad filters...


pbc, you can order single ended XLR's to go out of your 7005, or just simply cut the end of an existing cable to wire it into this unit....
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post #18 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Warp - check this part about the MiniDSP Balanced version ... may eliminate the need for the MIC2200?

Quote:


Compared to the miniDSP 2x4, the miniDSP Balanced allows for balanced
input & output connectivity and higher output gain. In order to fit most
gain configurations, a single jumper change is all it takes to toggle the
input sensitivity from 0.9Vrms to 2Vrms.

Is this what the MIC2200 does? Boost the output gain?

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #19 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

I'd hazard a guess that it is no longer then a dollar bill and probably about an inch to two high.

FWIW, you can see the MiniDSP I used in testing some cheap subs.



Its the small box on the top right corner of my amp.

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post #20 of 20 Old 01-06-2011, 12:45 AM
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MiniDSP is great for the diyer.

I have access to the SigmaStudio (OEM manufacturers DSP programming software) and can assist in confirming what is and what isn't theoretically possible with the MiniDSP hardware.

International HDDVD Screenshot Archive (Full 1080p Images): www.hdmovies.co.nz
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