Automatically Powering on Pro Amps via Relay (guide w/ pics) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 389 Old 02-24-2014, 02:59 PM
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Actually this poster a few posts down has a good point. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1517353/inuke-vs-cv-5000/90#post_24378306

I'm going to test the relays and their temps with 100 watt light bulbs and a power strip. That is a guaranteed way to make sure the heat sinking is adequate and everything is safe.

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post #272 of 389 Old 02-24-2014, 06:04 PM
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For anyone who is interested I found these heat sinks. You want the 50x50-12.7 height.

They're a great price. They are almost exactly the same dimensions of the side of the deep double gang box everyone is using. And they spec out (the 12.7mm version) at 1.5 c/w while the Omron specs state a 1.6 c/w. (the lower the number the better the cooling).

After mounting the relay you will have a 1/4" on the top and bottom of the heat sink. Cut a hole in your box just big enough for the relay to fit through and use the extra 1/4" on the top and bottom to mount it to the box.


http://www.micforg.co.jp/en/cat_ze.html

Page 1 should be updated to include this info for those going the solid state route.

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post #273 of 389 Old 02-24-2014, 09:35 PM
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^^^Did you play the song in a different format, did the relay still heat up?

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post #274 of 389 Old 02-24-2014, 09:47 PM
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Not yet.

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post #275 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 05:03 PM
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With these relay powered plugs, does it still cause the initial "pop" when powering on?
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post #276 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 05:09 PM
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Mine did not pop at all.

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post #277 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Mine did not pop at all.

Well not the relay itself, I had one of those smart strips that I had my sub amp hooked up to. Whenever it came on, my subs made a short "pop". Same thing when it turned off.
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post #278 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoG_FATALFIRE View Post

Well not the relay itself, I had one of those smart strips that I had my sub amp hooked up to. Whenever it came on, my subs made a short "pop". Same thing when it turned off.
Will it also pop if you manually hit the button?
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post #279 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 05:38 PM
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deleted for improper heat sink info

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post #280 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 05:40 PM
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What is the advantage of using this vs a smartstrip for 15A max loads?
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post #281 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 05:42 PM
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Well for me the advantage is location. A smart strip needs power from another source in your chain, IE the AVR. My sub RCAs and power is in a different location in my room.

I'll write up a how to with parts and procedures in another thread. Notnyt has most of it covered but if you're going to use SSR (and why wouldn't you they last forever) they need to be cooled properly.

It only takes once to turn on the loud music and get sidetracked, have an emergency, etc etc.... and overheat that box laying on your carpet. Insurance isn't going to cover a box that burns your house down if it was built with a part that specs a specific heat sink and doesn't have one that is even close.

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post #282 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez View Post

Will it also pop if you manually hit the button?

No they do not pop if I turn them on manually via the switch on front
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post #283 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez View Post

What is the advantage of using this vs a smartstrip for 15A max loads?

If all of your loads together are 15 amps, then the smart strip will work, but if you run an AVR and a couple pro amps, along with the other misc equipment, then you are going to exceed 15 amps.

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post #284 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If all of your loads together are 15 amps, then the smart strip will work, but if you run an AVR and a couple pro amps, along with the other misc equipment, then you are going to exceed 15 amps.

I run a dedicated 20 amp line for each 7500 watt amp I have.

15 dedicated for my AVR and miscellaneous gear. Bluray, Dune, Xbox, etc.

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post #285 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If all of your loads together are 15 amps, then the smart strip will work, but if you run an AVR and a couple pro amps, along with the other misc equipment, then you are going to exceed 15 amps.

I just have one circuit for the room, so 15 amps is the cap smile.gif
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post #286 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 06:31 PM
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Why not get the smart strip then?

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post #287 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Why not get the smart strip then?
Because I was trying to learn why not. ...if there was something I was missing.
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post #288 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll write up a how to with parts and procedures in another thread. Notnyt has most of it covered but if you're going to use SSR (and why wouldn't you they last forever) they need to be cooled properly.

If you think you're going to ever reach the lifespan of a good mechanical relay in this scenario, you're mistaken. I tried the SSRs and they lose too much power as you near 20A. Even if I didn't upgrade my amps, I would have most likely switched.

$0.02, no reason not to go mechanical. cheaper too.
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post #289 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

If you think you're going to ever reach the lifespan of a good mechanical relay in this scenario, you're mistaken. I tried the SSRs and they lose too much power as you near 20A. Even if I didn't upgrade my amps, I would have most likely switched.

$0.02, no reason not to go mechanical. cheaper too.

Do you think they are losing power because the cooling wasn't adequate?

I do, but you seem knowledgeable in this area so I'm certainly interested in your input.

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post #290 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Do you think they are losing power because the cooling wasn't adequate?

I do, but you seem knowledgeable in this area so I'm certainly interested in your input.

As power draw increases, they'll bleed more energy, just how they work. The cooling won't really stop them from doing that, it will just keep them cooler as they do.

If you're only peaking to like 10 or 15a or so, it shouldn't be that big of a deal, but if you're pulling more, mechanical seems to be the way to go, no need for cooling.

They clack kind of loud when you trip them, but *shrug* I could care less about that.
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post #291 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 07:39 PM
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Interesting.

I could care less about the clacking or the size. I spent money on these is the main reason. I hate tossing 45.00 in the trash.

You've got me curious now, though. How would one go about measuring the energy loss with a volt meter and a string of 100w light bulbs as a load? I would think the 20 amp relay would send out 20 amps as rated. Otherwise I want my money back. tongue.gif

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post #292 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Interesting.

I could care less about the clacking or the size. I spent money on these is the main reason. I hate tossing 45.00 in the trash.

You've got me curious now, though. How would one go about measuring the energy loss with a volt meter and a string of 100w light bulbs as a load? I would think the 20 amp relay would send out 20 amps as rated. Otherwise I want my money back. tongue.gif

put a load on it, measure current draw at the wall and then current draw after the relay while loaded.

I have four of the ssrs sitting unused mounted to boxes, so I know how you feel.

If anyone wants them cheap let me know =]

ugh, I need to get rid of my sealed cabs now too.
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post #293 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 07:48 PM
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Enough people on the east coast those boxes shouldn't last long.

I'll throw up the results. Just waiting on heat sinks.

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post #294 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd use an amp-clamp pre and post relay, as well as measuring voltage at the wall outlet, and at the relay outlet. Put a 2000w load on it while doing this to see.
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post #295 of 389 Old 02-25-2014, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

What needs to be done is put a 20 amp constant load on the relay and heat sink accordingly to get the desired temperature.

Oh, I must not have been paying attention. I purchased all 45 amp SSR's so they could derate accordingly. Maybe that is why I have almost zero heat gain on my box where the relay is mounted.
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post #296 of 389 Old 02-27-2014, 10:04 PM
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EDIT - inadequate heat sinking. Third time is a charm.

Here is the final, correct sized heat sink (that I chose to use because they are cheaper than specific SSR heatsinks).



The entire build thread can be found here -

Make a properly heat sinked SSR trigger box

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post #297 of 389 Old 02-27-2014, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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An amp clamp and some inspection plugs would be the best way... however you can put that load on it again, measure voltage at your outlet, then measure voltage from the outlet in the relay box, post results.
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post #298 of 389 Old 02-27-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

An amp clamp and some inspection plugs would be the best way... however you can put that load on it again, measure voltage at your outlet, then measure voltage from the outlet in the relay box, post results.

I did a MWBC and separated a double receptacle. So..... each outlet has its own supply. I guess I could just leave the prongs exposed and access them with my meter. WIll do, now

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post #299 of 389 Old 02-27-2014, 10:28 PM
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1.5 volt consistent difference between wall and relay box. Not sure what that means. Explain it for us all please.......


EDIT - these heat sinks are inadequate. For updated info see my full build here - Full build here





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post #300 of 389 Old 02-27-2014, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

1.5 volt consistent difference between wall and relay box. Not sure what that means. Explain it for us all please.......
The voltage drop across the SSR multiplied by the current draw will determine the amount of heat the SSR has to get rid of.
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