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post #361 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 05:50 AM
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Horngasm...
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post #362 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzardmountain View Post

Horngasm...

Hey man, get your horngasm stuff out of this family oriented thread.....this is for flat packs, not horngasms!

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post #363 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Any final consensus on the name? CinemaHorn MFW?

JSS

Cinema Horn, but there will be a series of them.

I'm thinking that since it takes space to make bass, the cabinet volume is a great number to stick in there to uniquely identify these cabinets. Since I design different topologies (Tapped vs offset driver/front loaded), we could throw a "T" or an "F" in there as appropriate.

Using the dimensions I'm currently working with, The offset-driver front-loaded horn for the MFW driver is the Cinema Horn F-18. If you made it wider (say 20.5 internally), it would be an F-22. If you really wanted an F-16, you could make it 15.5" wide, but I have not found a driver for this one yet.

My single-sheet project I've been working on (The one that just got a complete refold cause I messed it up pretty bad ...and it was all me....) is a 6-cubic foot box, so I'd call it the Cinema Horn T-6.

The two-sheet Shiva fold I am working on is about 11 cubic feet, but it might grow a touch yet, have not finished the fold. That would be a T-11 (or 12...)

Now, what do we call my 12 cubic foot, 15" PA tapped horn design that does just a hair under 100 dB at a watt with a -3 of 33 Hz?
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post #364 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 10:33 AM
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post #365 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 12:16 PM
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F69 Horngasm...
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post #366 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Anybody know someone with AutoCAD? That would make things a LOT faster. I could just send them the program and they could price is so much quicker.

Still looking for ACAD volunteers? I have AutoCAD 2010 and Inventor 2010, the latter is a 3D modeling program. PM me if interested...
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post #367 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 01:30 PM
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post #368 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 01:45 PM
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LilMike's HornE
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post #369 of 777 Old 03-15-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Now, what do we call my 12 cubic foot, 15" PA tapped horn design that does just a hair under 100 dB at a watt with a -3 of 33 Hz?

The Defibrillator
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post #370 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Here's where I am at currently...

~29 3/4" X ~60" X ~19" These are external dimensions, and are not final.

According to the model, with the 15" driver Erich found, this cabinet is 92 dB 1 W 2pi, with a -3 dB point of ~17 Hz in a groundplane setting. Other drivers work well too, and lots of other drivers will fit inside.

Cool part? It is an extremely simple build. There are only 5 internal panels, not counting the bracing or reflectors.

Details are coming - I promise. I've got the plywood in the shop for the prototype, and I am nearly done with the layout.

More to come, I promise. Just don't hold your breath waiting....

I may not be any good, but I sure am slow....

this cabinet is 92 dB 1 W 2pi, with a -3 dB point of ~17 Hz

So 2pi means the 17hz estimate includes room gain/boundry loading?
Are you also working on any similar format designs that extend to lower frequencies in-room? Like closing in on DTS-10 territory?

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #371 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

this cabinet is 92 dB 1 W 2pi, with a -3 dB point of ~17 Hz

So 2pi means the 17hz estimate includes room gain/boundry loading?
Are you also working on any similar format designs that extend to lower frequencies in-room? Like closing in on DTS-10 territory?

Nope - 2pi means sitting in the middle of a parking lot, a groundplane environment.

In room might be lower, but that depends on the room. Since we all have different rooms, I can't predict what that number might be for anyone.

Sure, I can design a horn that digs deeper than the DTS-10. It will be bigger than the DTS 10. Get me a driver that works, then find me someone that's willing to put a cabinet that size in their room. Of all of the monster sub designs I've done on and off forum, exactly ONE of the monster subs I have modeled and folded has actually been started, and even that one is not done yet (partly my fault...).

To be totally honest, not many people build these because there are just better ways to get there. If you want to reproduce 10 Hz, you're better off going for it with brute force and displacement. Multiple drivers in an IB array or sealed cabinets will get the job done, and then some, take your pick. There are several recent examples of the multiple sealed cabinet approach, which offers a lot more placement options than a single cabinet that's the size of a queen-size bed.
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post #372 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Nope - 2pi means sitting in the middle of a parking lot, a groundplane environment.

In room might be lower, but that depends on the room. Since we all have different rooms, I can't predict what that number might be for anyone.

Wow, not bad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Sure, I can design a horn that digs deeper than the DTS-10. It will be bigger than the DTS 10. Get me a driver that works, then find me someone that's willing to put a cabinet that size in their room. Of all of the monster sub designs I've done on and off forum, exactly ONE of the monster subs I have modeled and folded has actually been started

OK, you had hinted at designing the MFW series with both smaller and larger sizes than the one indicated above. Was just wondering which direction the larger was headed.

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #373 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

Like closing in on DTS-10 territory?

I can think of one dog barking at that door

Even so, like Mike said, anything competing with the DTS-10 is going to be a big 'ol subwoofer in its own right. Below 15Hz just isn't practical for horns, at least for most of us without rooms the size of gymnasiums.
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post #374 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

Wow, not bad!



OK, you had hinted at designing the MFW series with both smaller and larger sizes than the one indicated above. Was just wondering which direction the larger was headed.

Larger = lower, but not as loud.

This is a function of displacement. I have the same amount available from the driver, so I can either go lower or louder if I make the cabinet larger, but physics says I can not do both.

As it is currently drawn up, it is 5 feet tall. That is not small. Making it 7 feet tall, which is about as big as can stand up in a typical room, adds 2 feet which nets approximately 2 meters of additional path length once the rear chamber gets adjusted for proper annulling. This gets the -3 dB low corner to 14 Hz in 2pi simulation land, at the cost of ~2 dB at a watt and a bit more cabinet. Problem is - if we're using the MFW driver, we run out of excursion before we run out of power handling.
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post #375 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 10:36 AM
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What about an AV15H (in theory)?

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post #376 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

What about an AV15H (in theory)?

In theory??? No idea... I don't even have accurate T/S parameters for their stuff anymore... It has been unavailable for too long and there have been too many changes.

Let me get a proto built and measured with the MFW, then we'll see what else we can shove in there.
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post #377 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 12:28 PM
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FWIW, AE Speakers has been shipping the AV series drivers for the past couple of weeks. Im not sure how much of the back log is cleared up but they are shipping.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #378 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Making it 7 feet tall, which is about as big as can stand up in a typical room, adds 2 feet which nets approximately 2 meters of additional path length once the rear chamber gets adjusted for proper annulling. This gets the -3 dB low corner to 14 Hz in 2pi simulation land, at the cost of ~2 dB at a watt and a bit more cabinet.

This actually interests me more, since I do have room for two towers in the front and one in the rear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Problem is - if we're using the MFW driver, we run out of excursion before we run out of power handling.[/b]

Oops.

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post #379 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

I can think of one dog barking at that door

Even so, like Mike said, anything competing with the DTS-10 is going to be a big 'ol subwoofer in its own right. Below 15Hz just isn't practical for horns, at least for most of us without rooms the size of gymnasiums.

Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on your upcoming Wolfhorn project also.
I dig the tall, slim towers for maximizing output while minimizing floorprint. Plus, you can make them look like faux cabinets if you want.

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #380 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

FWIW, AE Speakers has been shipping the AV series drivers for the past couple of weeks. Im not sure how much of the back log is cleared up but they are shipping.

That is excellent news. Very glad to hear this.
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post #381 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

This actually interests me more, since I do have room for two towers in the front and one in the rear.

Yeah, that is all in simulation-land though. I need to see what happens here in the real world. That's why I need to build a prototype. Hopefully testing will be non-destructive, though I am quite good at finding the limits of drivers in front-loaded horns. I've clanked or smoked drivers (or both...) in each FLH I've built thus far... I've had much better luck with the tapped variant in that regard - cause I can typically hear the bad things start before it goes terminal.

Other drivers will work, no worries there. Not sure which yet - have not explored that too much. Model and plans will be shared when I'm done with the prototype.
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post #382 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

In theory??? No idea... I don't even have accurate T/S parameters for their stuff anymore... It has been unavailable for too long and there have been too many changes.

Let me get a proto built and measured with the MFW, then we'll see what else we can shove in there.

I inquired about them, but no answer. So, who knows if we ever see them again.


How about the LMS-R 15"?

High cost, but high excursion and you probably only need one or two....

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post #383 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 03:46 PM
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Erich,

Sorry to squeeze in between all of the horn talk, but I'd be interested in 4 of the Statement monitors.
Thanks for all of the hard work!

Darren A.
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post #384 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 04:31 PM
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paHORNo??? now that's a name for a horn ladys lol!!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #385 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by optoguy View Post

Erich,

Sorry to squeeze in between all of the horn talk, but I'd be interested in 4 of the Statement monitors.
Thanks for all of the hard work!

Darren A.


Yeh, this horn talk has gone crazy!


I'm going to get prices for those next. That will be a MUCH faster turn around.


I should have the Overnight Sensation cabinets next week as well. They are going to be very cheap.

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post #386 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 05:22 PM
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Wish I was even a little bit tool savvy, cause this is an awesome idea. Anyone want to build one for me and ill kick them down the money for it?
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post #387 of 777 Old 03-22-2011, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jaeelarr View Post

Wish I was even a little bit tool savvy, cause this is an awesome idea. Anyone want to build one for me and ill kick them down the money for it?

You might want to mention were your located so a local member may offer to help.
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post #388 of 777 Old 03-23-2011, 05:14 PM
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Thanks Optoguy, I didn't want to be the one to HORN in on the conversation but I would definitely like to make a statement or two.
Still in for monitors when they are up.

I'm getting there....!!!
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post #389 of 777 Old 03-25-2011, 04:27 PM
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Any word on the Full size Statements?

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post #390 of 777 Old 03-25-2011, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Picked up the 2nd pallet of Anarchy flat packs to box up. You can see that the boxes are in the background. Getting 4 total this time around.





I also got a bunch of Overnight Sensations. They turned out very nice. To keep the price low, I didn't have them use a round over bit on the side. I figured I could run that down a router in about 1 minute before boxing them up. Everything else about them is to the original specs from the designer, no counter sinking the drivers. I did design the box so it could be put together really easy, but kept the same internal dimensions. Matter of fact, in this photo, it's holding itself together with no glue or tape.










Here's how they packed them for me:







This is a VERY easy build and will be VERY cheap. It's Baltic birch too.

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