Group Buy for 6.5" Anarchy Tapped Horn. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

When the guys were "voting" on terminals, it was decided that the end user should figure where they want them to be. I guess that's because some people will want the terminals on the side, some on the front, and others will want terminal cups, versus other things like plain binding posts.

People seriously still use something besides SpeakOn terminals on DIY projects? Really? Why?


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Originally Posted by BigguyZ View Post

Quick question- why would more than 1 sub be needed? I thought these play plenty loud? I'm not into shaking my house and annoying the neighbors, so what would the benefit be to having more than one sub?

Smooth out room modes throughout the listening area. If one's just looking for boom, it doesn't much matter as long as there's enough volume displacement for you. But anyone chasing high-fidelity needs to be using 3+ subs.

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This was not about "needing" an amp to do the job to me this is about getting a DIY amp kit and finding out if its any good.

The presumption here is that competently designed amps is amps, and I would expect Kevin's to be competently designed. So, amps not so exciting.

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post #92 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by justphil View Post

Well you can only do what the budget allows. A thing to think of also is you are young and will probably move allot =P At least the anarchy will be easier to move.

"Will these be available for a while? I mean, if I buy one now and want to buy another in 3-4 weeks, will I still be able to order another?"

I asked the same question and am looking for an answer to this also.

I absolutely love the way that the Anarchy's look when they are completed. They are slim and much easier to blend in with the decor than a huge box. ^_^

I am just curious to know how they sound, mainly how accurate and tight they are for music and how low they can go to handle movies and games. If they shine in both areas, this will be my new Sub and I will have two if they are still available for a while.
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post #93 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeh, I mentioned above that because the company is fairly close and they'll already have the program stored in the computer, I don't mind driving there to pick up more later on. I'd probably wait until we had at least 25 people interested for future rounds though. I doubt they would just cut one or two boxes every time I called.
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post #94 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 10:25 PM
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That sounds awesome, Erich. Put me down for 1 cabinet and 1 driver.

I still want to see the results of how well these perform, though.

Do you have any results of one solo?
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post #95 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kabigon24 View Post

I absolutely love the way that the Anarchy's look when they are completed. They are slim and much easier to blend in with the decor than a huge box. ^_^

I am just curious to know how they sound, mainly how accurate and tight they are for music and how low they can go to handle movies and games. If they shine in both areas, this will be my new Sub and I will have two if they are still available for a while.

Sound is so subjective....

Accurate/tight? Yes, in my opinion. Tapped horns are resonant enclosures, and some ears may not like the sound. I personally prefer it, but I listen to music and movies, not cables and tubes.... I have been known to play an MP3.... Not as dry as some, not as boomy as others - a nice middle-of the road.

Low? A qualified yes. (This is a 6.5" driver here, even though it is a good one, we're still bound by physics...) I measured a corner of about 25 Hz when we tested radman12's build. Here's that data plotted up, the simulation is in red, measured in blue.



Loud? I'll be honest - not so much. Really - 105 dB is about it in a 2pi (groundplane) environment. Again, here comes physics..... One by itself will not be loud. Placing it in a corner will help considerably, as will adding another cabinet. Best way to get these loud is to use at least 4. Even then, it may not be enough for some folks, but there's always some of those in the crowd. (I'm one of them...)
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post #96 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon24 View Post

That sounds awesome, Erich. Put me down for 1 cabinet and 1 driver.

I still want to see the results of how well these perform, though.

Do you have any results of one solo?

See above....
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post #97 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Best way to get these loud is to use at least 4. Even then, it may not be enough for some folks, but there's always some of those in the crowd. (I'm one of them...)

We've also got to remember that some here don't think four 18's is enough. Step out of this DIY section, and 2 of these small TH's would serve a large portion of TV watchers very well. I don't recall anyone building one of these that wasn't happy.

I think these kits will be great for the average living room set up where you don't want huge boxes and need massive bass. That's why I'm buying 2. Not for huge wall shaking, gut wrenching sound, just nice clean and clear bass that goes plenty low enough for most things.

Now in a home theater environment, no doubt I'd prefer a wall of subs, or four 15's.

I'm probably going to get 2 for my dad as well. He just got a 55" TV and was used to an Onkyo surround sound set up. Two of these Anarchy's will easily trump what he had. Plus if placement is right, I can use them as speaker stands for his Polk bookshelf speakers. I know he's going to be very happy. I think one would easily out perform his previous Onkyo sub.
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post #98 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 11:28 PM
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Personally, I think they should be put where I have them marked just inside the mouth. I'm not so sure about the top though. It's easier, but you'd see screws, or have to cover them. Then again, if they were needed, the owner could just drill those top panel pilot holes by themselves.

Suggestions before I give the go ahead to the CNC guys?

I vote for the pilot holes for the inside but none on the outside. This would make the assembly easier.

Mike
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post #99 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 11:32 PM
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I have no use for high volumes. lol Apartment living = gotta be reasonably quiet. Sound quality, precision, and the overall decor factor of these are what's important to me. Not to mention, getting a great Sub on a budget. ^_^

I saw Radman's builds over at hometheatershack and he said that he's powering 4 of the Anarchies with a single 240w Dayton Audio Amp.

So, I can buy the Cabinet, Driver, and $99 Amp from Dayton and then for the next 3 Subs I build, I only need to buy the Driver and Cabinet and the Amp will be able to handle all 4? That sways me even further toward doing this if so. Are there any drawbacks to having 4 subs on 1 amp?

This is the amp, right?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-805
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post #100 of 424 Old 02-15-2011, 11:52 PM
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Use this amp - it is the same thing, but with no boost. If you don't want to wait, this one is in stock, and will power 4.

Only issue with a single amp is wiring the speakers together. Make sure you get it right, otherwise the smoke comes out of the amp. For four, wire two pairs in parallel, then the pairs in series. Three is a little odd, I'd suggest a pair in parallel, with the third in series. Two - wire them in parallel.
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post #101 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 12:46 AM
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Would it be better to buy a small amp for each one, then? I can get Dayton 70w Amps for $50 apiece. How/where would I mount these though and how much wattage do the Anarchies actually need?

(Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to make sure I understand it all before I make a purchase. I'm extremely new to this.)
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post #102 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 06:52 AM
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From what I remember reading 100 watts into 1 of these is good.
You sound allot like me. Very concerned about what you are getting for your money as it isn't like extra money. Nobody can tell you just what kind of response you will get in your room with the subs. These are very budget oriented subs and as stated above it might not bring your house down but will offer good clean bass that should please most people. You will just have to bite the bullet and make a decision. I am personally looking for a rack amp that is as budget as possible that will drive 4 of these. With plate amps you run the risk of ground loop hum. I would also think 4 plate amps would suck up more electricity than a single decent amp. So I am hoping to build 2 for now and run them off my little amp and then get a new amp to run 4 and build my other 2 when I have more money.
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post #103 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I need some opinions on one part of the build

Photos show the unassembled box. There are pilot holes drilled to hold all the inner panels tight while the glue dries. You can see them next to the red dots in this photo:



Those pilot holes make things very easy as you can imagine. When we first started the discussion on the boxes, most didn't want pilot holes on the outside panels marking the inner bracing. With the inner grooves, they weren't needed anyway.


#1. As it stands, there are NO pilot holes to be seen on this box. But I'm wondering if you think we should add pilot holes where I marked in the following picture. This would allow for a quicker assembly, but there would be screw heads in the mouth. You really wouldn't see them though, but you could if you looked.



#2. Taking it a step farther. Should I have them drill pilot holes on the top of the box to? That would mean all panels are held together by screws until the glue dries and the use of clamps would be very minimal. It would speed things up, but we would have 4 screw heads on the top of the box.



Personally, I think they should be put where I have them marked just inside the mouth. I'm not so sure about the top though. It's easier, but you'd see screws, or have to cover them. Then again, if they were needed, the owner could just drill those top panel pilot holes by themselves.

Suggestions before I give the go ahead to the CNC guys?

I vote for sticking with the original plan. This is a small box that's easy to clamp tight, and besides, it's easy to make a hole and anybody who wants a pilot can put one there. Getting rid of a hole is a bit harder.
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post #104 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by moosifee View Post

...it's easy to make a hole and anybody who wants a pilot can put one there. Getting rid of a hole is a bit harder.

+1 from my perspective, for thte same reasons. Pilot holes are easy to add if you want them, harder to fill if you don't.
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post #105 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon24 View Post

Would it be better to buy a small amp for each one, then? I can get Dayton 70w Amps for $50 apiece. How/where would I mount these though and how much wattage do the Anarchies actually need?

I can only answer the first question, but I think that answer is unambiguously "yes." Individual amps will let you let independent levels for each sub, and will give you the ability to EQ each sub individually.

The only exception would be if you're co-locating all four subs, which I don't recommend doing anyway unless you have other subs in the room, too.

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post #106 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Kabigon24 View Post
I have no use for high volumes. lol Apartment living = gotta be reasonably quiet. Sound quality, precision, and the overall decor factor of these are what's important to me. Not to mention, getting a great Sub on a budget. ^_^

I saw Radman's builds over at hometheatershack and he said that he's powering 4 of the Anarchies with a single 240w Dayton Audio Amp.

So, I can buy the Cabinet, Driver, and $99 Amp from Dayton and then for the next 3 Subs I build, I only need to buy the Driver and Cabinet and the Amp will be able to handle all 4? That sways me even further toward doing this if so. Are there any drawbacks to having 4 subs on 1 amp?

This is the amp, right?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-805
Ditto here. Well, I don't live in an apartment, but I lived in a rowhouse in the city (adjoined houses much like a brownstone). I share brick walls with the neighbors, so I have some sound isolation but not as much as a typical suburban neighborhood.

I am going with 4 of these in a music only system, with the purpose of doing the Geddes' style distributed subs for SQ reasons, not volume reasons.

JoshK on most other audio forums
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post #107 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

The presumption here is that competently designed amps is amps, and I would expect Kevin's to be competently designed. So, amps not so exciting.

Not so exciting to you

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post #108 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 12:17 PM
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Count me in for 1 enclosure and 1 driver.

Ever since I built my THT I've been thrilled with horns. This speaker will make a perfect Gaming or PC sub. Also may be a half decent Car Audio sub too? It's certainly small enough and with cabin gain, this 30hz cut off will get a lift no doubt.

Thanks for coordinating this.
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post #109 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 01:28 PM
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Not so exciting to you

Now, if one wants to experience the building-an-amp process, that's a different issue entirely.

But today the simple fact is that no reasonable person of moderate intelligence and knowledge can possibly imagine that audio amplifiers are anything but interchangeable commodity parts in terms of how they "sound." And commodities generally aren't that exciting, unless one makes a killing on futures or something. Then they're a huge thrill.

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post #110 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 06:38 PM
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Put me in for 1 cab and 1 driver.

What HPF is suggested?

Evil is Good
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post #111 of 424 Old 02-16-2011, 07:20 PM
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Depends on how you listen and what your room does. 30 Hz may be right for some rooms, 25 might be better for others. I'd like to see 20 Hz down ~10 dB from the passband, 6 dB at a minimum.

The steeper the slope, the better. I suggest 4th order slopes if possible. The shallower the slope, the higher we've got to start the curve. With a 24 dB/oct filter, we can start cutting things 1/2 octave above 20 Hz, while a 12 dB/oct filter has to start a full octave above 20 Hz to cut levels enough to keep things safe.

As far as hardware? I love my MiniDSP. There are other options, some cost less, but the MiniDSP is about the same price as the usual suspects and does a lot more.

Straight crossovers? Maybe some car audio stuff would work? Marchand makes a simple kit too.
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post #112 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Depends on how you listen and what your room does. 30 Hz may be right for some rooms, 25 might be better for others. I'd like to see 20 Hz down ~10 dB from the passband, 6 dB at a minimum.

The steeper the slope, the better. I suggest 4th order slopes if possible. The shallower the slope, the higher we've got to start the curve. With a 24 dB/oct filter, we can start cutting things 1/2 octave above 20 Hz, while a 12 dB/oct filter has to start a full octave above 20 Hz to cut levels enough to keep things safe.

As far as hardware? I love my MiniDSP. There are other options, some cost less, but the MiniDSP is about the same price as the usual suspects and does a lot more.

Straight crossovers? Maybe some car audio stuff would work? Marchand makes a simple kit too.


Which MiniDSP do you suggest? Would the ED eQ.2 work fine?

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post #113 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 08:30 AM
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I'd be interested in buying two.

Thanks!!!
Dan

Little Loft Home Theater
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post #114 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by vitod View Post

Which MiniDSP do you suggest? Would the ED eQ.2 work fine?

Ive got the MiniDSP kit (it allows me to change the levels with a jumper), and I use the 2-way advanced plugin.

The eD eQ.2 looks like it will work. I don't own one, so I have no experience with it directly. I can't find the slope of the highpass anywhere in their "specifications". It's also unclear what the range actually is (5-30 or 10-50 Hz.). Anyhow - since we don't know the slope - start on the higher side, say 30 Hz, and see how that works. It may be possible to lower it depending on how loud you listen/amplifier used/actual slope in the eQ, but until I know more - I'm going to suggest conservatively.
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post #115 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 12:31 PM
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I'll take a cab and driver. When do you think you'll be geared up for shipping and how do we get payment to you?

Carl

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post #116 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Now, if one wants to experience the building-an-amp process, that's a different issue entirely.

But today the simple fact is that no reasonable person of moderate intelligence and knowledge can possibly imagine that audio amplifiers are anything but interchangeable commodity parts in terms of how they "sound." And commodities generally aren't that exciting, unless one makes a killing on futures or something. Then they're a huge thrill.
Again, you have that opinion (its just a purchase decision opinion), there are people that buy for reasons you may not consider reasonable. Does it make it wrong?? Nope, its their money.

I buy a new set of golf clubs yearly. Not because it improves my game but because I simply can. The same goes for amps. I buy to just enjoy something different...different meaning, name, looks. No real difference in SQ, Im still waiting for that one amp that makes me go "WOW" though I have never owned a DIY amp kit and I want to own one...that is good enough reason for me. Im not asking you to buy it for me

I do build speakers, tweak EQs all the time for difference in SQ.

btw, did the commodities/options 15 years ago....that was HUGE gambling. A life time of $$$ up and down, that was a wild time, building huge paper $$$ only to have it wiped out in 2 weeks

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post #117 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe they'll be cutting the enclosures next week. And I'll go ahead and order the shipping boxes next week as well (or tomorrow). So as soon as they're here, I'll start packing them up. I'm hoping it goes easy and quickly because my busy season starts in about 2-3 weeks. But after the initial large order, the rest won't be a problem at all, or very time consuming. So I won't mind boxing them up when people make the orders.

I got real lucky last week and found someone selling some new corner protectors on Craigslist. He had 4 boxes full and I got them for just $15! They're the ones that cover just the corner tips, but they're strong. I'm looking for the long type edge protectors as well.


I don't know how we're going to do the payment thing just yet. The goal for all of this is to keep prices at a bare minimum. Paypal charges 3% to make payments, so that might suck. I'm sure we'll figure something out. The main thing is to get them here first.
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post #118 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
Ive got the MiniDSP kit (it allows me to change the levels with a jumper), and I use the 2-way advanced plugin.

The eD eQ.2 looks like it will work. I don't own one, so I have no experience with it directly. I can't find the slope of the highpass anywhere in their "specifications". It's also unclear what the range actually is (5-30 or 10-50 Hz.). Anyhow - since we don't know the slope - start on the higher side, say 30 Hz, and see how that works. It may be possible to lower it depending on how loud you listen/amplifier used/actual slope in the eQ, but until I know more - I'm going to suggest conservatively.
From eD,

"The Subsonic is 5-30 Hz, slope is 12 dB per octave."

Evil is Good
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post #119 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 01:17 PM
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Erich
I am comfortable sending paypal payment as a gift so there won't be any fees. I think others here would be willing to do the same.

If at first you dont succeed , get a bigger hammer !
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post #120 of 424 Old 02-17-2011, 01:31 PM
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I'm actually wanting 4 now (was 2), got a friend interested
Still interested in exploring the DIY amp Kevin was talking about
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