8x 18" LMS Ultra 5400s in 4 sealed enclosures - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 02:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Just sent the wire. I'm now waiting for four FP14000s =]
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post #362 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 06:52 AM
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Good lord....

What are you going to do with your MA-5050's?
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post #363 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 07:51 AM
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post #364 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 08:03 AM
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Chasing the last 24db of headroom huh !!!
Your going with Lab Gruppens or a clone brotha ?
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post #365 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 10:50 AM
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2 on 240v probably would've gotten the job done.
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post #366 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

Good lord....

What are you going to do with your MA-5050's?

If the LG's work out, I'm selling them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Chasing the last 24db of headroom huh !!!
Your going with Lab Gruppens or a clone brotha ?

clone


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

2 on 240v probably would've gotten the job done.

They're setup for either 16a on 240v or 30a on 120v. I have 30a circuits on 120v, so not really an issue.
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post #367 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 12:26 PM
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You have 4 120v 30A circuits? Sheesh I thought I was bad putting in a single 240v 50A line in the living room. I'm interested to see how these amps work out for you. I was thinking of going with some LG's until I scored a deal on some Powersoft K10 clones. Unfortunately that well ran dry before I could get any more. I still need a pair of something big and efficient for the bass section of my PA rig in the future. These might work.
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post #368 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 12:29 PM
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Do you have a link or some info on the LG`s?
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post #369 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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post #370 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 01:19 PM
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Yeah, thats what I did for the amp rack I have as well...

3 x 30 amp circuits... although I think they rarely pull the power necessary to utilize that much feed, but I wasn't taking any chances - I'm sure its once in a great while but not a regular scenario.

I'm also looking forward to hearing which amps you came up with notnyt - if I ever choose to feel the need to free up some space in the rack. God knows I wasn't going to pull the trigger on the Lab Gruppen's running at a good price of $6K each.... busy...
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post #371 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll post info as soon as I have the amps and they checkout OK. Most likely late next week.
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post #372 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Ohms law.

I = V/R

W = V * I

W = watts, V = volts, R = resistance, I = amperage

If you're powering a 4 ohm load, and you produce 50 volts:
I = 50 / 4 = 12.5

W = 50 * 12.5 = 625

You can simplifier by using:
W = V * V / R


So, if your amp can only put out 50v, the maximum power potential with a 4 ohm load is 625 watts. Now if you're powering a 2 ohm load, and the amp can handle it, the maximum power potential is 1250 watts. Most amps are less efficient at 2 ohms, so you will not quite get that same power output, but that's the general idea of how it works.

Now if an amp is bridgeable, and you bridge two channels, you're essentially doubling the voltage potential.


Even though I've been all about ohm's law, both vocationally and avocationally, for the past few decades, it's always nice to freshen up
Seriously though, I was unclear as to what you're issue was wrt;
Quote:


They have some serious voltage potential so I won't be stuck fighting 4 ohms per channel.

Nor did I understand "fighting 4 ohms per channel."

Quote:


higher impedance loads require a higher voltage swing to generate current.

Never, have I read anything remotely like this wrt amplification and loudspeakers. My mistake,....I see now, with your subsequent posts, your needs.

Regardless, moving on.
--------------------------

Nice move on the amps, I'm glad you're addressing the line side of the amplifiers as well. This epic LF rig, doesn't need any potential bottlenecks, as it may have before. You keep taking steps forward, system and room. Where did you feel you were, wrt approaching driver limits? Where will the new wall power, amp power put the rig wrt to the same limits?

Were you power limited before, and you're moving more toward driver limited?

Thanks

edit;
LabGruppen = superb

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(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
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post #373 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 01:47 PM
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FOH, He certainly won't be amp limited or driver limited in any stretch of the thought I'm thinking.... He'll have potentially 24db more headroom then he has now and I'd suggest that he's probably got as much as anyone would need at this point already...

I have heard that not everyone was totally confident in the LAB Gruppens abilities in the severe bass dept... I have no basis for my comment as I've never seen the tests on them, just what has been suggested to me, it would be nice to see them bench tested to clarify things.

Statements like overpriced, and rising price increases over the years with no changes to the model also come to mind.
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post #374 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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FOH, I was able to comfortably push 6db more out of each enclosure at 10hz before reaching excursion peaks that would cause me to not push anymore. The driver still had some room to go, but seeing the surround wrinkle is a sure sign its time to stop =]

The MA-5050 in 4 ohm bridged mode is a monster, however I don't have any configurations available to support that setup and I don't really want to run 8 of them.
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post #375 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 02:19 PM
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Thanks

Bridging does increase voltage, however an amplifier has a finite amount of current capability. It is what it is. Yes, you can swing a lot of voltage, but the PS components are the limiting factor determining an amplifiers ultimate capability and load independence. Bridging can be brutal, at some frequencies whereby impedance dips exist.


Warp, I know what you're saying But one's either amp limited, or driver limited.

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post #376 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Thanks

Bridging does increase voltage, however an amplifier has a finite amount of current capability. It is what it is. Yes, you can swing a lot of voltage, but the PS components are the limiting factor determining an amplifiers ultimate capability and load independence. Bridging can be brutal, at some frequencies whereby impedance dips exist.


I was able to output 50v without clipping in 4 ohm stereo mode. in 4 ohm bridge mode, I was able to output 100v without clipping.

While it's double the voltage, it's also double the power.

50^2 / 4 * 2(stereo) = 1250
100^2 / 4 = 2500
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post #377 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 06:20 PM
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When you were designing the cabinets, why did you not go PPSL, or dual sealed with 2 opposing drivers? Is there research to support one build method over another with the same drivers? Assuming 4 x 18 inch drivers, what build will go the deepest assuming an equal cabinet space?

This was posted by someone earlier.

lkka could prove which drivers performed best and which alignments extracted the most out of them. It was the cutting edge.
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post #378 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 06:31 PM
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"Is there research to support one build method over another with the same drivers?"

yes. this has been long studied and is captured in thiele/small parameters and is at the heart of programs such as winisd, bassbox, and hornresp.

no enclosure is universally superior. they all have tradeoffs. finding the set of tradeoffs that is best for you is what you are looking for.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #379 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 07:00 PM
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I dont know if youre getting these or not but if they are half of what they state then one heck of a deal.

http://gisen.en.alibaba.com/product/...amplifier.html
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post #380 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 07:39 PM
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The fact that you were listening to dubstep on 8 LMS Ultras simply made me get up and dance a little bit.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #381 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post

When you were designing the cabinets, why did you not go PPSL, or dual sealed with 2 opposing drivers? Is there research to support one build method over another with the same drivers? Assuming 4 x 18 inch drivers, what build will go the deepest assuming an equal cabinet space?

More build complexity and I wanted a forward facing array design. Also, these drivers are incredibly linear so no real need for PPSL. Furthermore, they're extremely tall, making a PPSL enclosure awkward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I dont know if youre getting these or not but if they are half of what they state then one heck of a deal.

http://gisen.en.alibaba.com/product/...amplifier.html

I considered it, and they looked pretty good, but that is not what I'm getting. I have a LOT of info on those amps that I will post as soon as I receive mine and test them out.
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post #382 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I considered it, and they looked pretty good, but that is not what I'm getting. I have a LOT of info on those amps that I will post as soon as I receive mine and test them out.


LOL youre killing me. I'm searching for something about this size as well. How many amps are out there that are "clones" of something this size?
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post #383 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

LOL youre killing me. I'm searching for something about this size as well. How many amps are out there that are "clones" of something this size?

There are quite a few. Many resold units that fail QC and such as well or just really bad clones out there. Have patience. I am working on these and will update with results when I have units in hand

Bosso is also working on something similar. I should have something next week, I believe he may as well according to his other posts.
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post #384 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 09:56 PM
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I've been reading this stuff for a month and I still have newbie questions

For a 4x18 design, there are many different types of enclosures. What are the tradeoffs of them all? I know sealed vs ported, but what about Isobarik, PPSL, dual opposing etc.

I plan on having powerful amps.

Thanks for the link.
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post #385 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Careful with that. I'll be posting a LOT of info next week that I've collected. I wouldn't be hasty until then.
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post #386 of 518 Old 05-03-2011, 10:16 PM
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I'll be patient. Anything I can do to help? I speak Chinese.
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post #387 of 518 Old 05-04-2011, 11:23 AM
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Sorry for the late post...do the 5050's really rolloff around 15hz as stated in their specs....

The Labs look mad as hell !!!
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post #388 of 518 Old 05-04-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

There are quite a few. Many resold units that fail QC and such as well or just really bad clones out there. Have patience. I am working on these and will update with results when I have units in hand

Bosso is also working on something similar. I should have something next week, I believe he may as well according to his other posts.

I was wondering if this was the same amp Bosso is working on.

We have definitely been waiting for "this" amp.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #389 of 518 Old 05-04-2011, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I was wondering if this was the same amp Bosso is working on.

We have definitely been waiting for "this" amp.

No it isn't. Bosso is working on something similar, but more in depth. I don't want to comment on it as it isn't my place. Supposedly my units ship tomorrow. I should have them 4 business days after.

I have a bunch of parts ordered as well in preparation. 8 speakon connectors, 4 30amp relays, bunch of xlr patch cables, etc.
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post #390 of 518 Old 05-05-2011, 05:07 AM
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I sent an email to the link above to find out what the FP10000Q (Lab Gruppen knock-off) costs.

Quote:


Hi Doug,

Thanks so much for your email from Alibaba.

I’m Alisa Kong from Guangzhou Gisen Audio Equipment Factory, and I’m in charge of the foreign business here.

The product you mentioned in the last email is FP10000Q, and the best ex-factory price of it is USD775/ piece. The shipping cost for 2 pieces to USA by DHL is USD 197. So the total cost is USD 1747.

The lead time is in 3 days, and the payment term is TT. Here is the brief specification of this item:

8 ohms Stereo Power: 4x1350W
4 ohms Stereo Power: 4x2100W

2ohms Stereo Power : 4x2500W

Please find more information in the attachment.


Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Add my MSN or SKYPE if it's convenient for you. My MSN and SKYPE address is listed below.

Hope there would be good cooperation between us.

Thanks and best regards.

Alisa Kong


If the numbers are close then that is extremely impressive. Considering I think its a 4 channel amp with 2000Watts per ch into 4 ohms, 5000Watts bridged into 2 channels. One of those is like having 2 Marathon MA-5050.

I just have my doubts, I also think it might have a SSF above 10Hz like other class D designs.

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